Ohio State University researchers want your baby teeth and toenail clippings, but the reason why is not what you may think.
Oilfield brine is a byproduct of oil and gas development and is used in some Ohio townships for ice melting and dust control on roadways.
Researchers want to know more about the health effects of this brine, and they can figure that out with the help of your baby teeth, toenail clippings, and soil samples.
We'll also discuss what technology meteorologists use to predict the weather and how reliable it is. Finally, Russell Holly is back to talk about his time at Disney’s big event – D23.
Guests:
- Arbor Quist, assistant professor of epidemiology at Ohio State University
- Ben Gelber, meteorologist for NBC4
- Russell Holly, director of commerce content for CNET
Transcript
This transcript is generated with AI. To ensure its accuracy, review the audio file.
Amy Juravich: Welcome to Tech Tuesday from All Sides with Amy Juravich, a show where we share stories about science, technology, and the future of our environment. Ohio State University wants your baby teeth. And the reason behind it is much more complex than you may think. Oil field brine is a byproduct of oil and gas development and is used in some counties to melt ice off roads. A team of researchers at Ohio State university are conducting a study using baby teeth toenail clippings, and soil samples of people who are living in communities using oil field brine to find out what the long-term health effects are. And here to tell us more about all of this is Arbor Quist, environmental epidemiologist and assistant professor at Ohio State University. Welcome Arbor.
Arbor Quist: Well, thank you.
Juravich: Um, okay. So firstly, we have to start with, even though I want to start with the baby teeth and toenail clippings, I want, I'm going to ask you, what is oil field brine? Like, what is it?
Quist: Yeah. So oil field brine is wastewater from oil and gas development. And so it's kind of like ancient salt water that's deep underground. And it's brought to the surface during oil and gas production. And you know, it's really salty, so it contains lots of salts, but also can contain naturally occurring heavy metals, including radioactive materials that are brought to surface. Okay. And is it dangerous? Yeah, so... That's what we're trying to better understand. Oilfield brine in Ohio has been found to have especially high levels of radium. So some of brine samples in Ohio have measured radium 226 levels, around 2,000 picocuries per liter. And so this is far above the- Is that number high? Yeah, the state standard for discharge of 60. So yes, there are concerns. And oil field brine can contain. Heavy metals and radioactive materials. It doesn't always, but it can. And so we're trying to better understand if the oil for brine that's applied to roads is affecting the human body and is getting into the body and getting into soil.
Juravich: Why is oil field brine used on roads? Cause you said it's salty. So, cause I guess when I think of ice melting ice, I think salt, right? So tell me about that.
Quist: Yeah, so oil-filled brine is applied to roads as both a dust suppressant in the summer on like dirt roads and also as a de-icer in the winter. And so different types of brines can be applied to road to keep the dust down, which, you know, is important to keep people happy and for respiratory health and it's also important to keeps roads not... Not too icy and so it is important to put some sort of brine down and so oil-filled brine is relatively inexpensive for townships to To obtain and then they can apply it to roads and they kind of refer to it as like beneficial use
Juravich: Okay, so brine has been used probably for a long time. I'm just wondering, is oil field brine always been a go-to for certain places or is it a newer product as we have more oil and gas drilling?
Quist: Yeah, so oil field brine has been applied to roads in Ohio since 1985. And so yeah, so it's been going on for a while. And actually, what's applied to Rhodes is from conventional oil and gas wells and not the unconventional fracking. So it's not necessarily-
Juravich: Oh, this isn't even related to fracking.
Quist: Yeah, exactly.
Juravich: I had no idea. I just I get you when you hear about oil and gas production. That's what you assume it is Yeah, but there are that's what I assume. Yeah, they're
Quist: Yeah, but there are over 100,000 conventional wells in Ohio that produce wastewater and there's also a lot of frac fluid as well and according to the law, it's only the conventional wells that are applied to roads, although there are concerns that sometimes the unconventional fluid might be.
Juravich: Applied to roads. Hmm. Okay. So you're the principal investigator in this exploratory study. Where did the idea come from to study this, I guess, is where we'll start there. Yeah, yeah.
Quist: Yeah, so through many conversations with Buckeye Environmental Network and residents in Ashtabula County and Licking County who have concerns and are trying to better understand how this practice might be exposing them to harmful contaminants and might be affecting health. So through many conversation talking about what information would be helpful for people who want to know kind of how this is affecting health, the health outcomes can take a long time to develop. And so, bye. Looking at baby teeth and toenail. Clippings were looking at what's in the body, which could potentially lead to health issues later.
Juravich: Yeah. So, so you're looking at this and what some may think is an unusual way. Like why baby teeth and toenail clippings?
Quist: Yeah, so often people think of like blood and urine to collect samples, but that really just gives you a snapshot of what you've been exposed to right then. But toenails and baby teeth give you a longer historical record of what people have been exposed to. And so with baby teeth, it estimates, we can estimate the amount of radium and lead that a child was exposed to during the second and third trimesters of life of in the first year of life and then with the toenail clippings because toenails actually grow slower than fingernails, when we clip the toenails, we can estimate the levels of heavy metals from the past six to 12 months. And that's because these heavy metals bind to proteins and nails and to mineral structures in the teeth.
Juravich: Okay, so how are you asking people for their baby teeth and toenail clippings and how are you going about collecting them?
Quist: Yeah, yeah. I've been going to different farmers markets. Yesterday, I was at a back-to-school night in Ashtabula County, talked to a lot of parents and students at an elementary school. So yeah, going to difference events, talking to residents. People are often kind of surprised that we want, you know, that we'll give you a gift card for your toenail clippings and for your baby teeth. And so people are often a little perplexed, but then kind of
Juravich: I mean, it is unusual and, you know, it sounds funny, but you, so the people are getting paid in the way of like for participating, they get a gift card.
Quist: Exactly. Yeah, for their time. So there's a $40 gift card for donating your toenail clippings and an $80 gift card, for donating a baby tooth and a $90 if you donate both. And that also includes completing about a 15-minute survey. And we also collect soy.
Juravich: Samples from your yard. Okay and you you've mentioned a couple of times ash tribula so is like why there is this oil field brine being used in more places or is that just where you happen to be studying?
Quist: Yeah, so we have data from the Ohio Department of Natural Resources from about 11 counties where oil field brine is used on roads. But Ashtabula County has the highest volume that's been applied over the past 15 years. And so that's one of why we're focusing in Ashtibula. And then Cushokton and Licking County are two and three. And we're also enrolling participants there. And some of the brine that has been studied that has had high levels of. Radium has been found in Licking County and so that is another reason that we're focusing there.
Juravich: And the high level of radium in that specific place, is it just from whatever source it happened to come from, or where does the radium come from?
Quist: Yeah, so like from the wells from the from the brine from deep, deep underground. And so the
Juravich: But not all of it would have the high, like necessarily have high radium.
Quist: Yeah, there can be a lot of variability just because it depends kind of like what When you bring water up. It's like what was what rock? Cracks kind of aware near the water and so there can't be really high levels of radium, but also there might be lower levels, but when But when the Ohio Department of Natural Resources Conducted a study in 2017 They looked at over 100 different samples of brine and all of them were above.
Juravich: The state standard. This is Tech Tuesday from All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about an OSU research study exploring the long-term health effects of oilfield brine. And we're talking with Arber Quist, environmental epidemiologist and assistant professor at Ohio State University. So tell me about, let's talk about the long term health effects part. If you're exposed to a lot of this oilfield brine that is contaminated, you know, with the radium and whatever else is bad for you, What does that do to you?
Quist: Yeah so that's what we're trying to better understand. We know that the brine can contain these high levels of radium and can have arsenic and lead. What we don't know is whether that's really people are actually being exposed and if that's actually getting into the body. But if it is getting into body, being exposed to high levels radium is associated with increased risk of cancer. And so that's bone cancer, leukemia, lung cancer, breast cancer. And the heavy metals like arsenic and lead are also associated with adverse health effects even at relatively low levels.
Juravich: How long are you going to track these same people? Like do you get additional baby teeth if they have additional children? Do you go back for more toenail clippings? Like, yeah, tell me about the longevity.
Quist: Yeah, so right now we're just enrolling people and getting their donations, what they're giving us now. And we hope to expand the study and kind of be able to collect samples from a larger area of the state.
Juravich: Okay. So some of the people who are donating right now, are you, if they have like been exposed to a high level, do you contact them and just tell them like, sorry, here's your results or? Yeah.
Quist: Or yeah, so we will be reporting all the results back to people we haven't we've we're still at beginning stages So we haven't t run any of the analysis yet So we don't have any results right now, but we are reporting all their results back. So people will get their individual results to know what kind of levels of these heavy metals and radium that they've been exposed to it that's in their body and also In their soil and will also give suggestions and help them try to understand and make sense of their results
Juravich: So talk to me about, because, unfortunately, oil-filled brine doesn't stay on the roadways. It gets washed away into streams and soils. So that's where the concern is, right? If it's in the soil, can it get in drinking water? Tell me about that, because I'm being flippant, but I doubt people are going around picking up the brine from a roadway and licking it, you know? So yeah.
Quist: Yeah, yeah, the exposure is an interesting question and people can be exposed if they're like walking their dog on the road and a car comes by and there's kind of dust that kind of is kicked up or if some of the brine gets into nearby soil, maybe where people are gardening or where kids are playing in the soil. But then yes, exactly, these materials combine to soil and can stay in the for a long period of time. And especially if it's being applied year after year, it can stay and then also can enter waterways and may be affecting water or drinking water.
Juravich: Is one of the goals of this study to maybe determine whether oilfield brine is the best solution here? I mean, there's lots of different deicers, right? Yes, there are different.
Quist: De-icers and oilfield brine is one that's used because it's relatively inexpensive and so we're trying to understand is this potentially potentially harmful or exposing people and if so then yeah maybe using you know testing the oilfield Brine before it's applied might be helpful right now it's not it's, not tested for anything before it applied and so you could theoretically you know test the brine for radium and lead and person x.
Juravich: And only use brine the test below like safe levels, right? If all of the brine is different, right, is that, okay. So, I mean, why do communities pick the oilfield brine? You mentioned earlier, is it cheaper? Is that why? Yeah. Yeah.
Quist: Yeah, exactly. So I think it really does come down to cost for a lot of these townships. And this is like a cheap alternative, I think pretty inexpensive or maybe even free. And so that is an incentive.
Juravich: Oh, so it could be even free for some places, if the companies want to get rid of it. Yeah, you know, I'm not sure, but I know that it's definitely less expensive. It's very cheap, okay. If someone's listening right now and they're interested in this, maybe they live in an area where this oilfield brine is used and they want to donate, tell me what they need to do or what the qualifications are.
Quist: Yeah, yeah. And so in order to participate, you have to have lived in your home for the past year and live in Licking County, Kashocton County, or Ashtabula County. And so we're enrolling adults who are willing to donate their toenail clippings and or baby tooth from their child that's been lost in the past three years. And then their child has to have been born in the county as well.
Juravich: Okay, I thought you were about to say you need the adults' baby teeth from like back in the day. But no, so you want the adults toenail clippings and you want baby teeth from their kids and then you want soil from their yard. And then you use all of that together. So how can people, if they want to contact you, like how can they do that?
Quist: Yeah, they can reach out to me directly or our website. It's u.osu.edu slash environmental exposure study And they you know can google or look We also have a map of where this oil field brine is applied and an interactive map that people can check out as well
Juravich: And how long until you have results of the study? I know you're still collecting baby teeth and toenail cluppings. Obviously you said you were doing it yesterday. So is it gonna take you like years to be able to give us an answer?
Quist: We hope to have preliminary data in the spring or summer and then we hope to expand the study and so we'll, you know, have something to say hopefully in a year and then we hope expand the studies so that we are able to, you know, talk about the
Juravich: results with more certainty. Okay, you come back and tell us the results? Yeah, definitely. Tell us, and how many baby teeth and toenail clippings do you have right now? Like, do you know?
Quist: Um, like 15, we're definitely still in early stages.
Juravich: Early stages. Only 15, okay. So yes, people who live in Ashtabula-Coshocton, Licking County, reach out. All right. We've been talking about an OSU research study on the long-term health effects of oilfield brine, and we've been taking with Arber Quist, an environmental epidemiologist and assistant professor at Ohio State University. Thank you for your time today. Thank you. And coming up, what technology do meteorologists use to predict the weather and how reliable is it? We'll be talking with NBC4 meteorologist Ben Gelber when Tech Tuesday continues on 89.7 NPR News.
You're listening to Tech Tuesday from All Sides with Amy Juravich, a show where we share stories about science, technology, and the future of our environment. The subject of weather encompasses all three of those things. When you're a meteorologist, everyone always wants to talk to you about the weather. Wherever you are, at the grocery store, walking your dog. And NBC4 meteorologist Ben Gelber can attest to that. And Ohio's stormy August, with historic wind storms, tornadoes, record rainfall, and flooding. Prompted states of emergency, and some more questions than usual. Joining us now is Emmy Award-winning Storm Team Four meteorologist, Ben Gelber, to help us understand the science behind these wacky weather patterns and the role technology plays in forecasting. Welcome back to All Sides, Ben.
Ben Gelber: Hi Amy, how are you?
Juravich: So, from a meteorological standpoint, has August's weather this month, there were severe storms, confirmed tornadoes, record rainfall, lots of flooding, is this a weird August?
Gelber: Uh, to say the least, um, probably the weirdest I can remember, um.
Juravich: And weird is a technical term, I'm sure. You learned that in meteorology school, right? Weird.
Gelber: Weather 101. But we're using that term, I think, more frequently than ever because weather extremes not only make the news, but they're very evident in observational data. But we've had about 10 inches of rain in Columbus, someplace about over a foot. But like you said in the beginning, it's not just rain. We've had a historic windstorm on the same day that there was also derecho that came in later in the day. Which affected areas more to the West. So you almost never see that back to back. On top of that, historic flooding, especially East of Columbus. It's just been an incredible amount of weather bundled up in about a two-week period. In fact, it up till today and yesterday rained on 15 out of 17 days ending this past Sunday.
Juravich: Right. And don't we normally, don't I normally have you on to talk about a drought in August?
Gelber: The last two years, yes, and that's another good point. This is not the time of year to have extreme weather. If we do have unusual number of thunderstorm complexes, damaging winds, tornadoes, obviously we get all of these in flooding. Typically it's May, June, and July. And then the weather stabilizes in late summer and early fall. But I did a graphic over the weekend, which we've had as many tornadoes in August this year in Ohio. As we received in May, June, and July combined, which of course is peak tornado season, and that's unheard of. So we've had 15 confirmed tornadoes, and the Weather Service is still doing some investigations over recent storm events.
Juravich: I don't recall ever hearing about schools postponing or canceling the first day of class because of flooding, too. Just this past week, Pickerington, Southwest Licking, Gehanna-Jefferson, Reynoldsburg, those were among all the schools that had to cancel class, and they cited weather-related flooding. Talk to me about just this, this is very unusual flooding, a flooding pattern, right?
Gelber: Well, it is the sheer volume of rain, you know, to get, as we saw recently, as recently as last week, that extraordinary event late Wednesday night and Thursday, the airport officially had, which is the official weather station for Columbus, 3.87 inches of rain. So I did some research. That's the most rain to fall in a 24-hour period in Columbus in August, and records go back to 1878. And incidentally, we narrowly beat the record of 3 and 3 quarters inches of rain way back in 1915 in August when the remnants of the great Galveston, Texas hurricane came north. So that was a tropical system taking a very similar path that Ike did in September 2008, which was an enormous windstorm that brought no rain. But nonetheless, we've never had this much rain in one single event in August. Some places had five and six inches in Eastern Franklin. Western Licking County. So that caused extraordinary flooding. Of course, urban areas are even more prone to that. But that was on top of soil that was thoroughly saturated from equal amounts of rain going back to at least August 10th. So you're basically dumping water on a saturated sponge of a landscape.
Juravich: Yeah, it couldn't absorb anymore and the water had to go somewhere. So it went on the roads and in the houses and everywhere. What kind of technology is used to forecast the weather? We've heard it called Doppler radar. I've heard you say that a lot. What tools and technologies do you use the most often?
Gelber: Yeah, of course, it certainly starts with computer models, forecast models, of which there are now many. When I started back in the early 1980s, we had a handful and they were very high resolution. So we have a great deal of data. The supercomputer that crunches the data with NOAA can do quadrillions of calculations per second using. Physics and mathematical equations based on atmospheric physics, and so we can look at data that is literally updating every hour. It's fed into the system from ships and buoys, as well as weather balloons, aircraft observations, and ground stations, and then everything is applied mathematically to compute weather scenarios. But the modern high-resolution models will update every hour. So we can see. As thunderstorm systems begin to develop, which may not be predictable the night before, or typically models run every six or 12 hours, it can adjust and start to track those and also produce rain totals and other things that we look at and how stable or unstable, in other words, how volatile is the atmosphere. So we use all of that, as does the weather service for basic forecasting and tracking. Then you mentioned Doppler radar, Which came in, came around in the 1990s in terms of general use by the National Weather Service. And that's huge because we get better sense of both rain intensity, but also spin in the atmosphere. In other words, is there rotation developing inside a thunderstorm that could trigger a tornado warning? And interestingly, on August 11th, we had both. We had straight line winds and we use what we call velocity mode to see what kind of winds are pouring out of the storm as opposed to just reflectivity of raindrops. And hail. And then on top of that, we had a short-lived tornado touchdown on the leading edge of that thunderstorm system or squall line around 1015 to 1030 on the south side of Columbus. So you can have both damaging winds like a derecho, although the storm that came through our area that acted very much like a direito on the morning of August 11th like a hurricane and very similar to June of 2012. Officially is not a derecho at least yet because it didn't travel far enough. There's certain criteria. But nonetheless, does it have a different
Juravich: Does it have a different name? Is it a mini derecho or something?
Gelber: I think in my mind it is. I think that's kind of what I call it. But to have 80 to 100 mile per hour winds, 82 miles per hour at John Glenn Airport. But the weather service determined in my neighborhood in Upper Arlington and Clintonville and so many neighborhoods in Dublin and elsewhere showed the impacts of 90 to 100 miles per hours winds. But I drove around, you can see everything was blown in a straight line. In other words, the wind was blowing, we'll say west to east, that's the way the trees lay down. On the leading edge, we saw some twist or turn. You can see that in the debris. We call it convergent path. The debris came back in a circle on the south side of Columbus down by, say, Rebroad and Parsons. So that 1.8 miles just east of Berliner was a spin-up tornado on the leading edge of these series of microbursts. So this was pretty historic. And separately, a second system blasted Indiana the same day that caused catastrophic flooding. We were just grazed by that system Good night. Second round of afternoon downpours, that one went from Iowa to Kentucky. So that qualified as a derecho. In other words, it went more than 250 miles with the requisite wind speeds.
Juravich: This is Tech Tuesday from All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about the technology used to forecast the weather, and we're talking with NBC4 meteorologist, Ben Gelber. So on August 11th, you mentioned those historic damaging winds, 90 to 100 miles per hour. There was a tornado that touched down on the south side, but we did not hear the tornado sirens. A lot of people didn't get alerts on their phones. Some people did. I think it depended on where you were with your phone at the time, But. I was right in the heart of it and I did not get an alert on my phone. What did technology fail us at that moment?
Gelber: Uh, no, uh, and this is a good question and we were asked that, um, and there will be, you know, undoubtedly studies done and reviews, uh but essentially it was a bit of an interpretation, uh concern. In other words, the Nashville service had issued a tornado warning for, uh, Madison County, uh and neighboring County to the West. So we did have clear cut rotation. In the radar signal, Doppler radar and a confirmed tornado as it turned out in Choctaw Lake and also back in Clark County. So all of that occurred between 9.30 and 10. At 10 o'clock the national, and it's not a case of no warning, but no tornado warning. So a thunderstorm warning was issued for Franklin County and vicinity. In other words, the rotation signal on radar was no longer apparent. From the National Weather Service location at Wilmington. The concern here is that what we call, as I mentioned a moment ago, spin-up tornadoes can occur beneath the radar beam. In other words, if the radar sits in Wilmingdon and we're say 60 miles or so away because of the curvature of the earth and this gets into the technology, the radar beams is oh maybe four to five thousand feet above the surface. Well, large storms. Will exhibit rotation at that level. But when you have this unusual case of a bowing structure, in other words, it looks like a backward sea on radar, but a huge cluster of thunderstorms that's become organized and it's putting out very strong winds racing southeast, a tornado can form right on the edge of that, but that is not gonna show up as a tornado signature on radar. Or it could show up between the radar scans, which can take several minutes and hence the term spin up. So literally it could develop between the scans or it was not evident at all to the forecasters in Wilmington.
Juravich: What do you think of the idea that we could have gotten a high wind warning? Like they could have texted everyone in those areas of Franklin County and just warn them like, this is pretty intense. Cause we, cause we, most people in Franklin County, a few days later, got that text at like four 45 in the morning about the flash flood warning, you know, you know don't drive, there's flash flooding. Um, so should we have gotten that phone alert about high winds back on August 11th?
Gelber: Yeah, I think, and this is what the Weather Service is going to do. They're going to look back at the means of communication. There are a lot of discussions that will go on based on what happened. And, you know, did the alerts go out? You're right. It would have been ideal to at least get, I mean, a thunderstorm warning should have been received. But here's another thing, public perception. And we all think that a thunderstorm morning, OK, that's pretty decent thunderstorm, but it doesn't get your attention the way. Tornado warning and sirens, if you hear them, since they are designed for outdoor use, would get. And this has come up in other parts of the country, too. How do you message a destructive wind event within a thunderstorm, which really is elevated above a typical thunderstorm warning? However, the destructive wind warning didn't go out until the storm had mostly moved past I-71. So that was more for downstream. And these storms tend to push out pulses of wind, but then they also weaken. It's a very difficult issue because you can't start sounding sirens every time you have a strong thunderstorm. That would create mass confusion, warning fatigue, and then people aren't properly warned. So I think it starts at the communications level when you have an unusually fast-moving derecho type or mini derecho event. And the same thing, by the way, we had this discussion in 2012 after June 29th, because there again, you know, thunderstorm warnings went out. Well, that's fine, but it doesn't grab folks' attention. And again, you will not get or never get sirens for anything short of a tornado. And in this case, the National Weather Service did not see any indication of a tornado forming on Doppler radar from their vantage point. So. It could be some combination of a destructive wind event and getting all those text alerts out, and then people will treat it as a tornado warning. In fact, I've said on the air, with big thunderstorms that have tornado or tornadic potential, even though it's often not realized, treat this as a potential tornado.
Juravich: Yeah, I've heard, I definitely heard you say that before, you know, just, just be careful with the high winds. You can't. Yeah. I think we learned that. Okay, man.
Gelber: Yeah, because that means that the winds may rise. I mean, a typical thunderstorm will produce, even a gusty thunderstorm, 30 to 50 mile per hour winds, which is significant. But a typical thunderstorm does not produce 80 to 100 mile per hour winds. Now we're getting into an EF0, EF1 tornado strength. And I've used that terminology on the air. So again, I think, and I already know the Weather Service is going to reevaluate how do we get warnings out that indicated a special level of severity for storms. That fall short of being tornadic, at least tornado evidence, that would trigger someone.
Juravich: What do you also think about the time of day? Because this was like right at 10 a.m. When people are out and about doing lots of things. As opposed to that flash flood warning we all got at 4.45 in the morning, most people would have been asleep. So is there a case to be made for the National Weather Service of sending the warning out if more people are and about?
Gelber: Yeah, it's interesting because I also worked on the morning of February 28th of 2024 when we had five tornadoes touchdown, including in Hilliard and several more in Franklin County, several more Madison County in that rare event where people were getting, were being awoken by tornado sirens at five in the morning for a real event that had never happened really in the winter time at that time of day. Again, I think it's going to be a case of prioritizing. And categorizing the level of threat from thunderstorms if there is no apparent tornado threat, that doesn't mean a tornado can't or won't happen. And it's certainly not the first time that a tornado has occurred within the confines of a thunderstorm warning, but I can assure you how difficult and unpredictable that is. I mean, it's easier said after the event, but you can have multiple, even brief tornadic signatures of spin-ups And nothing touches down. This is one time where I think the wind event was so extreme that it made the likelihood of a spin-up tornado. But I think to realize that probably 98, 99% of the damage that occurred around central Ohio on August 11th was straight line wind damage. Maybe 1% or less was actually caused by that narrow path of a tornado. So sometimes we get hung up on language, tornado, thunderstorm warning, or gee, it's only thunderstorm warning, but we always get thunderstorms and. I'll just go inside, but you know, so how do we convey that next level? And again, in the warning language, they can upgrade to considerable and destructive for 70 and 80 mile per hour winds in the Warning Tags, which in my view then should trigger a certain level of alerts similar to a tornado warning on phones. Cause yeah, people aren't necessarily by their television or listening to the radio or wherever. So this is, I think gonna be the discussion And things I think will happen quickly. And of course, we may not have another event like this for a decade, or it could happen next year.
Juravich: Or it could happen next week. Correct, especially. Yeah, just to end on AI is being used everywhere all the time. So over the next year or two or so, I mean, is AI going to help us predict the weather better? Will things get better or will things or I don't know if, you know, I also could say AI is going to make things worse. But anyway, yeah, what do you think?
Gelber: Well, interesting question, because AI is already being used by the National Weather Service, NOAA, and other organizations and forecast, we'll say forecast operations. So it essentially can work faster to produce forecasts, but it's using a slightly different method. It's looking at past patterns, weather history, and finding similarities. And this includes hurricane paths. And then tracking systems. And it's proven to be quite accurate. So the Weather Service and private forecasters already do have access to AI-generated forecasts in addition to the current data and forecast models. So AI models will, I think, as they're tested and reviewed, will become even more used more readily once we have a better sense of how well they're working.
Juravich: We've been talking about predicting the weather with NBC4 meteorologist Ben Gelber. Thank you so much for joining us today, Ben.
Gelber: Thank you Amy, my pleasure.
Juravich: And coming up, we're gonna talk about D23, the ultimate fan experience that just happened. All things Disney. That's when Tech Tuesday with Russell Holly continues on 89.7 NPR News.
You're listening to Tech Tuesday on All Sides with Amy Juravich, a show where we share stories about science, technology, and the future of our environment. Disney just hosted their annual D23, the ultimate Disney fan event. They launched several new movies and an innovative update to the Millennium Falcon Smuggler's Ride in both Disneyland and Hollywood studios. And later, we're going to talk about how you all have that miscellaneous drawer of cables somewhere in your house. Well, believe it or not. It is best for you to just throw them out. Joining us to discuss some recent tech headlines is Russell Holly, director of commerce content at CNET. Welcome back to All Sides Russell.
Russell Holly: Thank you.
Juravich: All right, so you were at the D23 event. How was it? Were you impressed? Are you even more, are you fan, fanboying Disney?
Holly: Yeah, D23 is an interesting one. It is an event where, you know, Disney as a company unveils news across just so many different categories. It can be new movie and game releases and, you, know, new technical components coming to rides in the parks, new things that they're doing on cruise ships, and it kind of all gets meshed together into this thing that is also an event for fans where people show up in, like, full cosplay of their favorite Disney characters or attractions or things like that. It is a singular event. It's something that happens every two years and is a great way to kind of immerse yourself in what not just like Disney as a company is working on but what its, you, know, kind of most strident audience members feel about the different things that are happening across the organization.
Juravich: And it's called D23. The 23 is because Disney was created in 1923, right?
Holly: That's correct. Yeah, there's there's a lot of you know, kind of old school symbolism that goes on in the way that Disney names quite a few things to go along with that sort of thing. So, you know the other thing you know that they dedicated a pretty significant portion of the show floor for this convention to what they call the Imagineering Pavilion, which is where all of the like Disney engineer folks gather to either talk about the technology that they're using to make new things or you know the the ways in which they have brought robotics into the parks and the different tools that they use for those sort of things. It's also just a really interesting place to stand somewhere and talk to an actual person who built something that you know currently exists within Disney, and they just are very happy to talk to you about their process for how that stuff works.
Juravich: You were able to get a sneak peek of some of the tech behind one of the rides the Millennium Falcons smugglers run It's at both Disneyland and Hollywood Studios. Can you tell us about the update they're making?
Holly: Yeah, so Smuggler's Run, if you've ever been to either of the Disney parks, it is the ride that exists within the gigantic Millennium Falcon in the Star Wars part of the parks. And it is unique in that it is a video game that you sit in and it has kind of 4D seats that rumble around and do stuff. And so, you know, we're in normal.
Juravich: Yes, I got nauseous on it one time, but yes, go ahead, continue.
Holly: Where where normal rides across the Disney parks are very much built to be rides there are different endings and things that you can do within smugglers run because it is built like a Gigantic video game that can have all of these people on it And so it has to be updated like a video game there There are you know kind of software components that has to go into that But sometimes the hardware that you put in something five years ago is now outdated And so all of that stuff needs to be done And what I found really fascinating about the the story that I was I was told by some of these imagineers Is that in order to make sure that the ride itself wasn't down for a certain period of time They had entire crews of people making massive changes to these games all overnight all from like 11 p.m. To 6 a.m to go in and make these changes across the span of weeks, testing to make sure that everything went right, but also going in and replacing almost every single computer that drove this machine with brand new graphics cards and better hardware, which as we have been talking about over the course of the last couple of months is pretty expensive right now.
So, you know, going in between just having people go in for those kind of graveyard shifts and making all of these changes, I thought was a really impressive way to demonstrate how a company like Disney has to approach both hardware and software.
Juravich: Yeah, and in your article that you wrote about this, you said that there are 28 iterations of that same ride. How is that even possible? So there's 28 ways you can end the ride or act in the ride.
Holly: No, there are, at any point in time, there are 28 groups of people riding that ride at the same time. Oh, I see.
Juravich: Oh, I see. Okay, I'm sorry. I misunderstood with 28 minute. Yeah.
Holly: No, so if you have there's a there's actually a really cool documentary on this called inside the attraction where there's this massive carousel that rotates around. So as you get on the ship and you feel the ship move, what's actually happening is you're sliding to the side so the next group can can get on the ride. And as a result, there's just a massive number of people riding this thing that you feel like you're the only one on at any given time. But you are not you are one of at least 28 different groups that are riding that at the same time.
Juravich: Wow. Okay. And Disney does a great job of hiding that from you. You don't know where the people in line behind you end up. Yeah.
Holly: That's exactly right, yeah.
Juravich: Um, okay. And was this your first time going to D23 or had you been before?
Holly: This is my third time doing the event, and this is something that, you know, it varies in intensity. If you're just there for kind of the tech news, then, you're there kind of during the day. But this event spans from, you, know, 9 a.m. Until honestly midnight, in some cases, as Disney takes over the Hanna Center in Anaheim and uses it as this great big spectacle for announcing new movies that are coming out, new expansions to Disney's Cruise Line and things like that. It takes three entire days to get all of that news out for the way that they presented. They also, being Disney, have no shortage of celebrities that will come on stage and talk about their new projects that are coming out. So it is. It ends up being quite the spectacle.
Juravich: And you did some testing. You mentioned some virtual reality and live demos that you did. What were those like?
Holly: Yeah, so it's interesting that, you know, VR is a really interesting part of the way that Disney is currently doing its ride building by being able to put the VR headset on and feeling like you're sitting in the ride without having to actually go into the park and make those things. But it also means that there are like, you capture methods for that. So there are great big cameras that go and make sure that there's a virtual version of the parks that exist. And I have asked, they will not share it with us. You cannot put a VR headset on at home and feel like you are in Disneyland, but that level of interoperability is something that I think is really impressive for a company that size to pull off.
Juravich: They still want you to actually show up in actual Disneyland, at least for now, right?
Holly: They are very much still Disneyland, they very much would like your money, yes.
Juravich: Just to end on about D23, I wrote to you before we did this segment that I had not heard of it before this year. And I was like, did my social media algorithm tune me into it? Did I just completely miss it in years past? Do I live under a rock or did the algorithm tell me about it only this time? Like, it seemed much bigger, like a bigger spectacle this time around.
Holly: It was certainly a bigger spectacle this time around. Disney also leaned very heavily into its massive array of influencers. You can go on to any social media platform of choice at any time of day and find people either live streaming themselves going through the parks or sharing their favorite merch. Like it is its own kind of bubble that you're either in or not. And for this particular event, it really seems like the algorithms favored the work being done by those creators to just amplify all of the things that are happening at that event.
Juravich: It probably helped that they gave a special award to like Lin-Manuel Miranda and everyone shared it a million times, right?
Holly: Yeah, I think, you know, having the celebrities there and having, you know, that that kind of coordination, I think also helps.
Juravich: This is Tech Tuesday from All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about some recent tech news with Russell Hawley, the Director of Commerce Content at CNET. CNET recently published an in-depth guide on decluttering cables. So sometimes you end up keeping a cord just because you never know. You might need it someday. So how should we go about deciding which cords we need and which one should go?
Holly: So I wanna make it very clear that I felt personally attacked by this article. And despite my colleague who I love dearly, having written it, making it very clear that this was not in fact a personal attack against me, there were a few things in this that I ended up kind of cleaning up in my own, I wish it was just one box of cables. But yeah, the first thing, you know, take a day and just actually inventory what you own. You know, that is kind of the first step there is that taking a look at what's actually in the box of cables is often the first step to cleaning some things out because you will inevitably find things that go to things that you have thrown away or given to someone else ages and ages ago. We also live in a world where USB-C is something, that oval plug is something that is appearing not just in our phones and our tablets and our laptops, but also in a lot of minor electronics. I bought a Flickr candle from Amazon the other day was delighted and surprised that it, you, know, itself recharged via USB-C, which means a lot of those older cables that I would keep a hold of because you never know are just kind of fading out of existence. So that is usually my first stop, is to kind of inventory everything and then take a look at things that aren't using USB Type-C and have a good long conversation with myself about whether I'm actually going to use that again.
Juravich: So USBC is becoming more universal. Everyone's deciding this is the port of the future.
Holly: That's exactly right. The other thing, and this is a little harder to know from just looking at the cable, there is a pretty significant difference between a cable that is just for charging something and a cable that you can connect to your computer and use it to transfer data. The ones that can transfer data, if you have a computer that supports those ports still, are really valuable. The ones charge only, are a lot less valuable these days, because they charge at a much slower rate. Using them on new technology, in many cases, will actually get the new thing to either not charge, because it does a little handshake and decides that there's not enough energy there, or will charge so slowly that you'll leave it on there for an overnight charge and pull it out and find that it's only 40% charged and wasn't super useful to you. So that's a thing that I would test how you can. But making sure that the cable you're using is actually as useful as you think it is is kind of my next stop. Hmm
Juravich: How should we go about discarding the cables we decide we don't need? I mean, do we literally just throw them in the garbage?
Holly: I would avoid throwing them in the garbage if you can. Most electronic stores have some sort of recycling program, and this does include cables. My local Best Buy has a really great recycling program. You're not going to get money from it, just to be super clear, but they have a safe disposal partner that they work with to ship those things out. There are a number of recycling facilities now across the US that have electronic recycling components to it so that you can go in as though you we're going to a recycling center or to a dump and check and see if they have a space specifically for electronic recycling. Cables can go there as well.
Juravich: Just before we run out of time, our final topic today is CNET's People's Pick Community Awards program. And you surveyed readers about what they think about their favorite mobile carriers. And the results are in. The overall winner was Mint Mobile. So tell us why Mint Mobile won as the best carrier. And is it because of Ryan Reynolds' ads?
Holly: It's not not because of Ryan Reynolds ads but a lot of this you know the the questions that we ended up asking for all of the people that we surveyed over the last couple months was really just about your satisfaction with your service. You know a lot of questions that got asked were about how reliable the service has been to you, have you encountered any issues and of course are you happy with how much you are paying for it which is a big part of why Imitmobile is so popular is that it is a reliable stable service but it's also 15 bucks a month as long as you pay for a couple of months upfront. For their services. So you end up spending 45 bucks, but you get three months of service that ends up being pretty reliable. The thing that was really interesting about the data that we collected for this is no major carrier ranked particularly high. But a lot of the companies that buy data from those major characters, that buy them from Verizon and T-Mobile and AT&T, like Mint Mobile, those are all viewed as very positive because there is an emphasis on customer service. There's an emphasis on the quality of service that is being delivered to you. And so I was a really interesting data point here is that T-Mobile, Verizon, and AT&T were actually the three lowest on the list of customer satisfaction for the carriers that are available to you in the US, even though all of the service comes from one of those three providers.
Juravich: Well, I'm sure people don't know that and also people just like to be angry, sit in a grudgery about Verizon and AT&T, but it's also the most popular and widely used carrier, so what can you do about it, right?
Holly: Absolutely, yeah. I mean, the benefit to a lot of these kind of what they're called mobile virtual network operators, or MVNOs, like Mint Mobile, and US Mobile Invisible, and things like that, is they're buying leftover service from these carriers. And they're selling it back to you at a much lower rate because it is extra network bandwidth. The downside to that setup is that if you are somewhere whether there is a ton of other people for Verizon or AT&T, your service is the thing that slows down first. AT&Ts isn't going to slow down its customers first, it's going to slower down its partner's customers first. So in an emergency, I often am a little worried about folks who rely on things like Mint Mobile. If you are in a major city and there is some emergency because your cell service will be the ones that are first affected. But in a world where you're trying to save money wherever you can, these services end up being a pretty significant break compared to what you're spending at Verizon or AT&T or T-Mobile.
Juravich: And plus, the Ryan Reynolds ads are fun.
Holly: It never hurts to have a good Ryan Reynolds ad.
Juravich: We've been talking with Russell Hawley, Director of Commerce, Content at CNET. Thank you for your time, Russell.
Holly: Thanks for having me.
Juravich: This has been Tech Tuesday from All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. Thanks for joining us.