The United Supreme Court ruled on June 25 that the Trump administration was allowed to end the Temporary Protected Status (TPS) of more than 300,000 Haitians in the United States.
Recently, the work permits for Haitians with TPS were extended to July 24, while lower courts fully implement the Supreme Court ruling.
There are between 10,000 and 15,000 Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio, which is a significant portion of the city’s overall population of about 60,000.
The Haitian Community Network in Columbus estimates there are about 30,000 Haitians in Columbus with about 18,000 of them here on TPS.
We will discuss what the impending July 24 date means for Haitians in Springfield and in Columbus and their employers.
Guests:
- Jessica Orozco, senior associate reporter, Springfield News-Sun
- Emily Brown, assistant clinical professor of law/director of the Immigration Clinic at Ohio State University
- Yola Lamarre, external relations coordinator, The Haitian Community Network
Transcript
This transcript is generated with AI. To ensure its accuracy, review the audio file.
Amy Juravich: Welcome to All Sides with Amy Juravich. On June 25th, the U.S. Supreme Court dealt a blow to thousands of Haitians living in Ohio. The court ruled that their temporary protected status could end immediately. Since then, TPS has been extended a couple of times. The most recent extension goes until July 24th. The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services says TPS and employment authorization will be valid while waiting for lower court cases to align with the Supreme Court. But what happens after July 24th? How are Haitians in Springfield and Columbus feeling three weeks after the Supreme Court ruling? To give us the Springfield perspective, we have senior associate reporter with the Springfield News-Sun, Jessica Orozco. Welcome to the show, Jessica.
Jessica Orozco: Good morning.
Juravich: So, you've been doing a lot of reporting on the Haitian community in Springfield. Can you tell me the overall feelings in the community right now?
Orozco: Yeah, so the overall consensus among most Springfielders who I talked to is just uncertainty. A lot of people feel fearful that there will be immigration enforcement once CPS does end, but most people are just unsure about when it's actually going to end. I think a lot in the Haitian community themselves are still attending those church services, waiting for some kind of miracle. While still kind of preparing documents and plans.
Juravich: But yeah, it's a lot of uncertainty. So the idea that this court, that this ruling, you know, the TPS has been extended twice. So it was like, it was July 1st, then it was the 10th, and now it's the 24th. Does that make them feel that they think it shouldn't just keep getting kicked down the road more and more? Or like, is that the uncertainty feeling too about the date? Or are they uncertain about the Supreme Court ruling? I think that could
Orozco: definitely be part of it. I mean, the entire TPS process is very technical and confusing for the everyday person. I'm mean, not everybody has access to an immigration lawyer who can explain those things to them. And yeah, I mean we've seen so many, I guess you could call them reprieves. I means, the Trump administration tried to end TPS earlier last year, that didn't happen. Then it was going to end in February. That didn't happen. And then now, we're seeing this Supreme Court decision in July, but it just keeps being extended and it looks like maybe now it's not, but I think there's still, there's definitely that hope.
Juravich: Yeah, and we are having a lawyer on in the next segment who can help us with some of those legal questions. So, what are you hearing from city leadership? There's about 12,000 Haitians living in Springfield. The city of Springfield has a population of about 60,000. So to lose 12,000 residents out of 60,000, I mean, what kind of impact is that going to have on the city of Springfield.
Orozco: Yeah, so I mean, over the past year or so, I've talked to many, many city leaders and a lot of them are concerned that there could be impacts to, you know, schools, the job market, you know, the economy, that these are a lot people who are filling jobs in various areas like manufacturing, healthcare, things like that, all kinds of things. There's, I mean there's just a lot of concern about where does that leave. Um You know, those companies, where does that leave the community members who have embraced the Haitian community? I mean, what does our community look like? We saw some, you know, growth when a lot of cities have not. And this could undo that. But I mean it's unclear about, you now, if and when TPS does actually end, will we see a bunch of. People lost. We just don't know.
Juravich: I did reach out to the mayor's office in Springfield. Mayor Rob Ruse, communications director, said that city officials are not doing any interviews on this matter right now. Has the mayor been vocal about this at all, from your perspective?
Orozco: He's released some statements. We've spoken personally as well, but for the most part, he's released statements. The communication strategy has changed a bit since 2024, when we had all that attention on us here in Springfield. He's been vocal, mostly through statements and things like that.
Juravich: Yeah, the communication strategy in 2024 would be related to the cats and dogs thing that's been debunked. But that's debunk, we don't have to get into it now. But he did release a statement right after the Supreme Court ruling and it says in part, many of the individuals affected by this decision are our neighbors, coworkers, business owners, taxpayers, and parents. We will respect the judicial process and will follow federal law. Our top priority remains the safety and well-being of all residents. So. Do you think that means the government's response is that what federal law says regarding TPS, the city's going to back that? What do you read into that statement?
Orozco: What I get from it is, you know, they're not going to violate federal law in any way. So they're going to, whatever the federal government says, they are going to follow. They don't want to risk any kind of legal action from violating that. But of course, they understand that the Haitian community is important to Springfield and they're wanting to protect everybody who lives in Springfield.
Juravich: Yeah, so both sides of the line there, I guess. Yeah. This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about the Haitian community in Springfield three weeks after a Supreme Court ruling ended their temporary protected status. And we're talking with senior associate reporter with the Springfield News-Sun, Jessica Orozco. So you recently did a story about how people in Springfield and surrounding communities can help organizations that are providing aid to Haitians in the city. Tell me about that story, what help is needed? Is it money? Is it legal advice? Is it something else? What's needed?
Orozco: Above. It's, it's mainly money. A lot of organizations like St. Vincent de Paul, United Way, the local one over here, there's a Haitian support center called the Haitian Community Help and Support Center. And they're all looking for funds to help them with their direct services that they provide. They're also we're hearing, really nationwide, there is a shortage of immigration attorneys. There's a lot of people. Needing immigration services and the local advocates for basic legal equality is providing a lot of help in that area, but they can only help people who are under, I believe it's 200% of the federal poverty line. So if you are not that, then you cannot qualify for their representation. So there are a lot needs.
Juravich: In a lot of areas. You also covered a church event related to helping the Haitian community. Tell me about that. What are church leaders asking for in this aspect?
Orozco: I'd say church leaders are asking for a lot of prayer, a lot of. Just help in whatever way that you are able. I mean, a lot of Haitians in Springfield are churchgoers. That's been something that's carried them through a lot this uncertainty, that faith. And I think a lot the churches, the pastors are seeing their congregations struggling with this and they're just wanting some. Some more support in whatever way that people can provide.
Juravich: So everyone from Governor Mike DeWine to Dave Chappelle are calling on the Trump administration to leave the Haitian community alone. But, Dave Chappell aside, someone like Governor DeWine has also said that he's going to follow the federal law. Can the governor really do anything to help Haitians stay in Springfield? If he's saying he's gonna follow federal law, what does the governor have any say here? I would say really the only say he...
Orozco: Has is just his voice trying to encourage the Trump administration to allow the Haitians to stay and to understand the kind of impacts that they've had on Springfield. But of course he has to follow federal law and he's voiced that he will do that even if he seems to disagree with it.
Juravich: So, at the federal level, the U.S. House voted in April to extend TPS for Haitians through 2029. That bill is now in the U.S. Senate, but the White House said that President Trump would veto the bill if it does happen to pass the Senate. Does the Springfield community, you said that they have hope that this will keep getting extended. Do they think that this can be a reprieve from Washington? Do they think that the Senate will pass this bill?
Orozco: Think this is a potential avenue for that. I mean, I know people realize that it's kind of an uphill battle, right? I mean the vast majority of Republicans, except for some of our local representatives like Mike Kerry, Mike Turner, they're supportive of it. But of course, You know, you have others, more of them, who are not supportive, so I think people... Who are hopeful about this or are really just more working on advocating for their senators who are not supportive. But yeah, I mean, it could be an avenue for reprieve, but in general, what I'm hearing among the Haitian community is just kind of a miracle of some sort, not necessarily specific. Mm-hmm. Okay.
Juravich: Talk to me about worries about ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement coming to Springfield. The governor said that he's been promised that he would be notified if ICE was coming to Ohio. About a week or two ago, he said publicly that he had heard nothing about ICE. What are you hearing about worries? Do they think that ICE will come to Springfield?
Orozco: Everybody seems to think that yes, ICE will come to Springfield. The question is when. I mean, I'm hearing dozens of rumors a week about an ICE surge, and none of them seem to pan out. There's a lot of fears in many communities, but specifically, I've spoken with the local NAACP president, Denise Williams. She and others are really worried about profiling. Obviously, the vast majority of. The Haitian population is black. And there's a lot of concerns about black Americans in Springfield, brown Americans in Springfield being profiled. And there is a fear that you can feel about whether they'll be stopped by ICE, detained. Yeah, I mean, there's just a lot of fear about what will happen. And people are hoping that if there is an ice surge of some sort, it won't be, you know, what we saw in Minneapolis earlier this year. And we've seen some tactics change since then. But we just don't know. I mean, we just had two fatal shootings very recently by ice. So there's just a lot of uncertainty and nerves, honestly. Yeah.
Juravich: I also read comments on some stories, yours and other stories. I'm sure some of them are from bots because we can't trust every comment, but I'm pretty sure some of them came from real people. And the comments say, temporary means temporary. It's time for the Haitians to go. Are you hearing those comments too in Springfield?
Orozco: I am, yes. There's definitely a population of people in Springfield who are supportive of the Supreme Court's decision in this case. People who have been advocating for Haitian immigrants to leave. They've talked about concerns related to driving, you know, accidents, driving without a license, that kind of thing, public. Resources being strained. We did have some growing pains, I would say, in the schools and the health care system. The BMV, to be honest, a lot of that was due to language barriers. And a lot people still feel that, you know, they have that common refrain, temporary means temporary. And you do hear from those people. And I would I mean, it's not a... Not an insignificant portion of spring float, who does feel that way.
Juravich: We also tried to have Viles Dorceville, Executive Director of the Haitian Community and Help Support Center on the show today. He said he had a conflict and couldn't join us, but I know he's been a very strong voice in the community, and he's remained a strong voice for the years that this has been going on. I can imagine the stress of all this will eventually get to a person. Are you hearing from Viles? Like, is he still strong or is, like, no defeat out of him?
Orozco: Yeah, I mean, I speak to me this pretty, pretty regularly. And that's something that I ask him a lot, actually, just because he kind of seems to have the weight of the world on his shoulders, right. But he is, you know, a strong person. I ask, you mean, all the time, how are you doing, personally? I mean obviously, this is affecting you as a person. And, you know, he tells me he's more worried about everybody else. Whatever happens to them is what's gonna happen to him. Um, so I mean, I don't know how he does it. It's a lot for one person to deal with. He also, you know, goes to, he's getting, I believe his master's at Wright State. So he's, he is doing a lot, uh, for one.
Juravich: Um, he's managing. Well, no wonder he couldn't join the show, busy guy. Um, so, um, I have been talking about the Haitian community in Springfield with senior associate reporter with the Springfield new son, Jessica Orozco. Jessica, thank you so much for your time today. Of course. Thank you so much. And coming up, we're going to talk about the legal side of immigration from TPS to asylum to what employers need to know about all these court rulings. That's when all sides continues on 89 7 NPR News.
You're listening to All Sides.
I'm your host, Amy Juravich. A recent Supreme Court ruling ended temporary protected status for thousands of Haitians in Ohio. There are about 10 to 15,000 Haitian immigrants in Springfield, which is a significant portion of the city's overall population of 60,000. There are also thousands more Haitians in Columbus than they're being serviced by the Haitian Community Network. Their TPS was recently extended to July 24th while lower courts worked to implement the Supreme Court's ruling. But what will happen after July 24? To help us understand the lasting effects of the Supreme court ruling from a legal standpoint, joining us now we have Emily Brown, Assistant Clinical Professor of Law and Director of the Immigration Clinic at Ohio State University's Moritz College of Law. Welcome back to the show, Emily. Thank you for having me again, Amy. Let's start with why the end of TPS keeps being extended. It's been extended twice now, and it's being said that it's administrative. As the federal court waits for lower court rulings to implement the Supreme Court ruling. Do you know why do the lower courts have to do anything? Doesn't the Supreme court just have the final say here?
Emily Brown: Well, typically, when the Supreme Court issues a decision like this, they essentially send it back to, they remand it back, to the lower court, which is the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, in this case, for further proceedings, which essentially they will be essentially directing the lower court to lift the stay that it had had in place.
Juravich: Okay, so the lower chord does have to do something. That's not just lip service, I guess.
Brown: Typically, yes. And, you know, I think there's also obviously a lot of confusion from the TPS holders themselves, from the employers about what exactly this means when the work permits expire, that kind of thing. So there really is kind of a lot chaos right now. And the lower courts are sort of left trying to sort that out to some extent.
Juravich: Yeah, it was originally July 1st, then it was extended to July 10th, and now we're at July 24th. So unless it's extended a third time, on July 25th, Haitians and Syrians as well, who are in the country on temporary protected status and are working under TPS, on July 25, they technically won't be allowed to work anymore legally. Is that correct?
Brown: That's right, they'll lose their work authorization and also their protection from deportation unless they have work authorization and protection through some other path, which some of them do. I don't think we know numbers of exactly how many.
Juravich: What would be another path? Can you give me an example of another path.
Brown: Yeah, the most common would be people who are also seeking asylum. So some folks who came here from Haiti, obviously they were fleeing violence, instability, various types of persecution that they may have been experiencing in Haiti. And so many of them applied for TPS, but also have applied for asylum, meaning they believe that they would be individually persecuted if they were forced to go back to Haiti.
Juravich: So what's the difference between TPS and asylum? It's two different things.
Brown: Right, so asylum is an individualized form of relief and TPS is broad based, based on your country. So what that really means in practice is when TPS designated, essentially the government is saying anyone who is here in the US on that date of designation and is from that country, it's not safe for any Haitian nationals to return to their country. And so it's a protection given to all Haitian nationals with very few exceptions. As opposed to asylum, which is a much more rigorous process that you have to go through where you have to prove that you would individually be persecuted based on some kind of protected trait like your political opinion or your race or religion.
Juravich: Hmm. Okay. So if someone has TPS, can they apply for asylum at the same time? Can you do both at once? Yes, you can. Okay. So if, so if someone an active asylum case pending, can they stay here and work? Or do you know that?
Brown: Yeah, so the answer typically has been yes. If you have a pending asylum case, either in the immigration courts or before the US Citizenship and Immigration Services Agency, you are entitled to remain here and to work under a work permit while you wait for your case to be decided. However, we've seen in this new era of indiscriminate ICE enforcement that people who have pending asylum cases are not necessarily safe from ICE, you know, indiscrimately grabbing them on the street, putting them in detention and forcing them to go through their removal proceedings and asylum application proceedings while detained. Um, and so it, even people that have pending asylum cases, um, although they're they're able to keep going to work every day and so forth, they're not necessarily safe from ICE enforcement.
Juravich: Hmm. Okay. Do you know if most people, you know, I mean, it's like it's about 12,000 people in Springfield are estimated to be in Ohio on TPS. Would most of them be applying for asylum? Do you know?
Brown: I don't think the government has put out any data on that number, and those numbers can be sort of hard to get if the government doesn't release them. And so I don't think we know, but my guess is that a lot of people either have applied for asylum or are doing so as we speak.
Juravich: Yeah, yeah. Well, so tell me about your immigration clinic. Are you currently offering legal advice to Haitians on what to do?
Brown: So we do have some Haitian clients, but we don't do the kind of sort of broad-based clinics that serve large numbers of people doing TPS and asylum. So yes, I mean, I think, you know, to the extent that we have Haitian Clients, which we do, obviously we're advising them about the possibility of applying for asylum, if that's something that they want to do and that we think they have a strong enough case to do. There are also lots of other legal service providers working with the Haitian community in particular advocates for basic legal equality is doing a lot of work in the Springfield area, working with patients there.
Juravich: Does your immigration clinic tend to stick with, you know, Columbus people or people associated with Ohio State or do you work with anyone?
Brown: Uh, we can represent anyone, but most of our clients are in the Franklin County area. We definitely do not limit our representation to people affiliated with Ohio State, though we mostly represent people who are not affiliated with the Ohio State.
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about the legal aspects being considered three weeks after the US Supreme Court ruled to end TPS. We are talking with Emily Brown, Assistant Clinical Professor of Law and Director of the Immigration Clinic at Ohio State University's Moritz College of Law. Talk to me about employers. TPS, if TPS does end on July 24th and it's not extended again, on July 25th, can an employer keep... Paying someone, can they have them keep working for them legally?
Brown: Well, I don't represent employers or purport to know how best to advise them, but I will just say that I think this is going to be devastating for the economy in Springfield and for a lot of employers that have employed. Many Haitians have said that they are excellent workers and are really helping revitalize that community as well as contribute to the community here in Columbus as well. And if all of a sudden many of them are not able to work, the employers are really gonna have no choice but not to let them continue working if they don't have a valid work permit.
Juravich: Okay, so it's really the employer saying, okay, you don't have a valid work permit anymore, so starting tomorrow, you can't come in, basically.
Brown: Right, yes, because the employment authorization documents all have expiration dates associated with them. And it's the employer's responsibility to ensure that they're complying with those requirements.
Juravich: But if there's an active asylum case, the date could be different. It might not necessarily be July 24th.
Brown: Right. And so in that case, the employer would need to ask the worker to present their other employment authorization document, which would have a later date on it. And then they would still be permitted to work.
Juravich: Is this all paperwork or is this online? Like, this seems crazy to me.
Brown: Yes, it is a little crazy. And I think a lot of employers do get confused by the process. But yes, I mean, they are required as part of the I-9 process, which we all know when we start any job, you have to fill out the worker and the employer fill out the I9. Um, and the employer is responsible for checking work authorization. So it is something that employers should be, um, familiar with, but also obviously it's especially confusing right now, given that we don't usually see these kind of mass, um you know, efforts to throw lots of people off of work authorization.
Juravich: So if people do not want to go back to Haiti, can an immigration clinic, can a lawyer, can you get legal advice, and can they be helped to go somewhere else? Can they apply to go to another country? Is that another option?
Brown: I think it is for some people and I don't advise in that area at all not being an expert on other countries immigration laws, only the U.S., but I do know, I've heard reports of some Haitians trying to go to Canada, potentially other places, potentially places in Latin America, but we're seeing all over the world issues with receiving countries trying to restrict. Immigrants and people coming into their countries. And so I think this is really a problem that is not easily solvable. It's not like Haitians have an easy avenue to go somewhere else necessarily.
Juravich: I guess if you can't work, I mean, at some point, if you have no income coming in, people have to make a change. So are there thousands of Haitians supposedly who are supposed to voluntarily just book a plane ticket and return to Haiti? Is that what the government is expecting?
Brown: I think that's what the government is hoping will happen, but I think even, you know, even the people in the administration who are the architects of this inhumane policy probably know that most Haitians are not going to voluntarily get on a plane and head back to Haiti because the situation there is so dangerous. And therefore that's why, you, know, the only way they're going to be able to it happen most likely is going to be large-scale raids, violations of constitutional rights, racial profiling, and all of that.
Juravich: Yeah, so you're talking about ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, has told Governor DeWine that he would, that they would let him know if they were coming to Ohio. A week or two ago, the governor said he had not heard anything about ICE coming here. ICE says that they're just trying to deport those who are criminals. But do you think that, or the agency will now view having an expired TPS is a criminal act now?
Brown: Well, they may view it that way, but there's just no question that having an expired TPS is not a criminal violation. And I think the data bears out and the stories bear out and the news that we see every day that it's not just people with criminal records that ICE is deporting. The percentage of people in ICE custody without criminal records has gone up and up and up throughout the Trump administration, because they really are just targeting anyone they can. You know, with these sort of large scale raids and sweeps in communities, in immigrant heavy communities, and they will pick up anyone they can, regardless of whether they have young U.S. Citizen children, regardless of whether, they have medical conditions, anything of that nature, and they will try to detain them and deport them.
Juravich: Yeah, and it doesn't seem to matter if they have children who are even more born here, so those children are citizens. The parents don't automatically get to stay with, they call them anchor babies, but that doesn't, that's not something the Trump administration is following, right?
Brown: Right, no, they definitely do not permit them to stay just on that basis alone. And, you know, in the past, it's obviously a discretionary call by ICE, but in the passed, ICE has been more lenient with people who are caregivers of U.S. Citizen children, and that has changed as well.
Juravich: I wanted to pivot for a minute, because I found a statement from the Attorney General of Massachusetts warning Haitians and Syrians who have their TPS expiring to seek legal advice and to avoid scams. And I wanted talk for a moment about that idea of avoiding scams, what kind of scams could be out there that could impact Haitians here in Ohio.
Brown: Well, unfortunately, there is a phenomenon in the immigration world of people posing as immigration attorneys, or they call them notarios or notaries who say, I can help fill out your immigration paperwork for you. I can get you a work permit. I can give you a green card, what have you. And they take their money, and then the person is not actually eligible for any kind of. Relief and so they either don't file it or they file something fraudulent and you know people that are not experienced in this field or don't know what to look for or what questions to ask to see if someone is a legitimate attorney sometimes do fall prey to these types of scams.
Juravich: Yeah, the statement says to make sure that you verify the individual is actually a licensed attorney or an accredited representative. And it also says that you do not have to pay to access any immigration forms. So is that another part of the scam where they would say that you can't get the form without paying me or something like that?
Brown: Possibly, yes. And all of the forums are available online, so I assume that's what that's a reference to, so people shouldn't be told that either.
Juravich: How do people know if they're getting good legal advice?
Brown: That's a great question. I mean, I think the best place to start is with community resources, your local legal aid, ABLE, as I mentioned, some of the other organizations in Springfield and Columbus that are working with the Haitian population. If you feel like you're getting scammed, go to those folks. They know who the reputable lawyers are and can help steer you in that direction.
Juravich: I mean I know there's a lot of worries about being able to afford the legal advice and you already mentioned how your clinic works but like are there like group discounts ever out there or does everyone is every case truly different so everyone needs an individual attention
Brown: Well, yeah, I mean, when it comes to asylum cases, which is what most people are going to be eligible for, it really is an individualized case. You need to have some, it's a 12 page application form with many questions and you can't assembly line produce those types of applications. The person really does need to sit down and have an extensive conversation with the attorney filling out the form. And so it is hard to to do these cases without doing that level of individual consult. Now, there are organizations like ABLE that I mentioned before, Columbus Legal Aid, who do sometimes have clinics where they help. They have volunteer attorneys come and help, and they get trained in how to help people fill out the forms. And so those are great. For people that if you can't afford to pay a lawyer, those are a great alternative. But that's really just for the first step of filling out the application. And then you're still going to need to find someone to represent you all the way through the court process. And there's just not there's a shortage of pro bono and low bono attorneys out there in the immigration law space. I mean, our clinic, you know, we just have a small docket. We don't have the ability to represent that many people. So it's great that we can represent people for free, but we're just a drop in the bucket.
Juravich: Well, just to end on, as someone who runs the immigration clinic at Ohio State and you're teaching future lawyers how to do all of this, what do you think about this moment in time that we're in right now?
Brown: Well, one thing, I mean, just thinking about the students that I have the pleasure of working with every day, one thing that has been really inspirational for me is that this is the hardest time in my practice as an immigration attorney ever to practice in this area, but I continue to have students that are. More engaged, more ready to get out there and fight and ready to go out there and work as hard as they can on behalf of their clients. And rather than it getting harder to find students who want to go into immigration law, ironically it's actually gotten easier because people really see the stakes. And I think everything that we saw happening in Minneapolis, in many other cities across the country, the recent killings in Texas and Maine by ICE of these two fathers. You know, I think people are really realizing what's at stake in this moment and that all Americans, whether you can do it by becoming an immigration lawyer or whether you could just be an engaged member of your community, helping out with a local ice watch or bringing food to your neighbors who may be scared to leave their house, all of that, we all have a role to play in fighting back against the mass deportation regime.
Juravich: We've been talking about immigration and the end of TPS with Emily Brown, Assistant Clinical Professor of Law and Director of the Immigration Clinic at Ohio State University in the Moritz College of Law. Thanks for joining us again, Emily. Thank you, Amy. And coming up, we're gonna hear from an organization that's working directly with Haitians living in central Ohio. That's when All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.
You're listening to All Sides.
I'm your host, Amy Juravich. We're talking this hour about a recent Supreme Court ruling that ended temporary protected status for thousands of Haitians living in central Ohio. Some of those Haitians live right here in Columbus. The Haitian Community Network is a nonprofit based in Columbus near Reynoldsburg that is working to support Haitian immigrants by offering English classes, legal resources, emergency support, and more. Joining us now is Yola Lamarre, External Relations Coordinator for the Haitian Community Network. Thanks for joining us today. Thank you for having me. So let's start with what you have been hearing from the Haitia community over the last few days. The temporary protected status, the Supreme Court ruling was June 25th, and then it's been extended three times. So now July 24th is the new end date. How are they feeling after the ruling in these extensions?
Yola Lamarre: Very uncertain. I think that it is a complex case within, you know, within of itself. And it's a fact that TPS hasn't been extended. But more so, there were injunctions in place in the lower courts that kind of stopped the mass deportation agenda for Haitians that were, you know, vulnerable to this targeted operation. What the lawyer courts are trying to do was trying to intervene to say that, you know, this, you know, this not well thought out pause of TPS is it's it's a violation of our of our law of the T process of Tps of the process of tps. And so the lawyer court stepped in to preserve protections for tps while this litigation around should TPS be extended or not. And in light of the Supreme Court's ruling, kind of taking away power from the judicial branch, unfortunately Haitians are left in a legal limbo. So we don't even know what the future will look like if there ever be a redesignation and extension or any type of relief. And so definitely uncertainty, you wake up every day and you hear that you're at risk, and then it's like, oh no, there's a last minute relief and it's. It's just a lot of uncertainty, I'd say the least.
Juravich: And does your organization offer resources to help with legal advice? Because from just talking with Emily Brown in the last segment, I mean, basically, if you want to apply for asylum, it sounds like you might need help, and it's not easy, yeah.
Lamarre: Yeah, one of the things I love about Hakunet, Haitian Community Network, is that we do so much work in preventing fraud, right? There's a lot of people who are self-proclaiming, document preparers, and who don't really understand the complexities and the legalities of being competent to represent someone on an asylum case. It's not just something where you can just fill out and then you just give it to the judge. It's something that's very complex. It takes a lot of knowledge on country conditions, assessment of future danger and persecution and things of that sort. And so we do a lot of training to prevent Haitians from falling into the wrong hands. There are a lot of people exploiting this opportunity right now. We do a lot of work with legal aid. We have Stephanie Concoctrin, Morgan Morisiette. We have Brooke Leonard. They are amazing attorneys who help spearhead efforts for pro bono. Services and they help with document preparation. We do also try to refer our Haitian community to reputable attorneys that can take on the whole case beyond document preparation, I know the W. Thomas law firm, attorney Lee Thomas, she has been an amazing advocate at the appeals court, the district courts uh, and the Supreme Court consistently informed the Haitian community and also partnering with the Haitian Warriors Association to offer some pro bono services. So we're doing the best we can and building a referral system and just preventing fraud.
Juravich: So, we were just talking about how there's thousands of Haitians and not enough attorneys. I mean, are you running into that? Do you have more people who need help than you have helpers?
Lamarre: Absolutely, and I will say yes and no, right? I think that the challenging thing about resources is identifying them and locating them. And so as HACWNET, we try to play as the mediator and the medium. I know Mark, he's the executive director. He's always asking different ways in which we can find reputable attorneys. Nadia, she's our social services director. She's blowing up a legal aid's phone. At the middle of the night, but just to make sure those resources, those legal resources are identified. So I would say yes and no. Yes, because there are a lot of people who do not want to take on removal defense cases because of the magnitude of the risk assessment of people, who either came to the border or came through humanitarian parole programs under Biden's presidency, and so these people are automatically subjected to removal proceedings and so it's very difficult and there's like slim hope so you have a lot of attorneys who are kind of shying away from that they have a lot of attorney's that are looking to help but they can't identify who to help and so we try to play as that medium
Juravich: And your organization, the Haitian Community Network, do you have an estimate of how many Haitians are in the Columbus, central Ohio area? Cause I saw some conflicting numbers out there about how many are actually here. And then whenever everything happened in Springfield with the whole cats and dogs thing, a lot of people from Springfield came to Columbus. I mean, do you numbers? Yes. So...
Lamarre: We definitely are three times. I would say a ballpark would be around 30K Haitians on that land. 30,000? Yes. In central Ohio? And Columbus, I can speak for Columbus. Oh yeah, that's fine, yeah. Columbus, I do know we have more of a significantly larger population of Haitians in Columbus than Springfield, for sure. Okay, so in Springfield.
Juravich: They say there's about 12,000 Haitians on TPS. But Springfield's population is only about 60,000. So if you do the percentages, I can't do the math.
Lamarre: It's a big difference. Yeah.
Juravich: So here in Columbus, if we have 30,000 Haitians but we're a bigger city, what's the impact going to be if suddenly 30,000 Haitians are like plucked out of the community? I mean, what jobs are they doing? Where are they living? Where are they working.
Lamarre: Well, it'll still be a huge impact. I think that even in Columbus, I was talking to attorney Brooke Leonard about this. She's from legal aid about, there's a huge underestimation of how enforcement will be enforced in Columbus because I think that we don't necessarily see the population of Haitians as a big impact. And so with Springfield, the smaller city, you kind of kind of like. You see, it's more of a bigger impact. But you're talking about a group of people that contribute over $5 million in taxes in Columbus alone. So definitely we'll see some economic impact there. A lot of healthcare workers are Haitian in Columbus, whether they are CNAs or home health aides, a lot of manufacturing jobs. There is a lot Haitians that even moved from Florida. Because they saw opportunity in Ohio to contribute. There were more job opportunity, there were more, you know, recruitment from employers to source these patients for their talents. I'd say like manufacturing warehouse, a lot of warehouse jobs, healthcare, and even entrepreneurship. There's a lot businesses in Columbus and Springfield as well, that's why you see that. They were able to revitalize the economy in Springfield. And we'll begin to see. That detrimentally impacted for sure.
Juravich: Yeah, I've seen a couple of different features of Haitian restaurants, too. Have you tried some Haitian food? No, not, no, I haven't. Where should I go? We have to change that. Yeah, okay. Do you have a recommendation? I do, I have a couple for you. All right, all right. After we're done on the air, you can tell me where to go. This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about the Haitian community in central Ohio with Yola Lamar, external relations coordinator for the Haitien Community Network. I've heard comments from people over the last few weeks, people who say things like, temporary is temporary, and patients have been here for too long. What do you say to those people?
Lamarre: I would tell those people to learn what immigration law is. They are half right and they're half wrong. T, the T in TPS does stand for temporary, but that is contingent based on country conditions, right? We do understand it is at the mercy of the current administration of DHS, Department of Homeland Security, and the current presidential administration. But what we have to understand are the facts, right. A lot of people are carrying this narrative that TPS was only for the earthquake. Haiti has faced more than the earthquake that took place in 2010. Haiti is facing an organized crime issue. Haiti is face famine. Haiti is faced ongoing armed conflict. Haiti is faces so much devastation and even additional natural disasters beyond the 2010 earthquake. And I think that what we have to understand, you know, we have see beyond our privilege, right? A lot of the displacement of, I think for Haitians, it's 1.4 million Haitians that are displaced currently in Haiti right now. So that gives you an understanding of the travesty and the magnitude of how it's really horrible. We have to the role that foreign policy plays. You know, Haitians are not living abroad because. They want to, it's because they have to, it's cause they see it as a necessity. And so what I would say to those people is to understand that one, TPS is not amnesty because it does not lead to a legal status, which is why you find people who are on TPS for years because they do not have an opportunity to easily adjust their status. I see a lot of people say they were here for years, they need to just do it the right way. Well, what's the right? Especially this under. This immigration climate, if the right way is being taken away from them, if it's harder to adjust your status, if there is an increase on certain legal documentation fees, if they're coming after immigration attorneys, it's obviously a very difficult climate. So I would say that, and I will also raise the point that people are perpetuating the idea that people who are on TPS are just sucking the system dry when it comes to different assistance, which they're not eligible for, that's number one. And two, you cannot have a criminal conviction and be on TPS. These are people that are vetted yearly. These are the people that constantly reapply. So the government knows exactly where they are, right? The government understands the risk assessment and there isn't a risk. There is not much of a risk assessment. If you are on TPS and you committed a crime, they will withdraw your TPS, so there's no way that TPS detrimentally impacts the community, especially when. The population of people that are TPS holders are great contributors to the economy of our country and people who just want to live a better life. And so, yes, it is temporary to a degree based on the contingency and reviewing country conditions which we have found in the legal courts, whether it's from Washington, D.C. With Judge Andres and Pasadena, the Court of Appeals in California. We see that the administration did not carefully examine a country conditions or consult to see if Haiti is safe enough to return.
Juravich: There are obvious concerns that ICE will be coming to Columbus once TPS does officially expire. Are you preparing people who come to your group with maybe a Know Your Rights campaign or anything like that?
Lamarre: Absolutely, absolutely. We are definitely making sure that our community, number one, feels protected. And we are trying to proactively come up with solutions to help Haitians make the right decision that is best for them. We're seeing a lot of fear mongering with certain, you know news outlets and it's causing people to make a lot of decisions that are emotional, that's costing them legally, right? There's a lot people that are eligible for certain statuses, and they just don't know how to proceed, right. For example, immigrants that are victims of crime on the hands of American citizens, partners of spouses that are abusing them and weaponizing their status against them, there's relief for that, and so on and so forth. And so we are making sure that one, We are. Acknowledging the fear. We are acknowledging the travesty that is taking place and the level of uncertainty that they do feel. And then secondly, we are making sure that they have the right resources in their reach. Super grateful to Legal Aid for their contribution of providing pro bono services. And different other organizations are coming together to see how, what does help look like right now in this moment. And so we are definitely preparing for the worst of the worst. The only thing we can do is just be proactive, reinforce their rights, reinforce the law, because that's what we are asking for as their constitutional rights are consistently being violated and we're seeing a rise in racial profiling. So absolutely we're doing these know your rights campaigns, we're making sure that resources are accessible to them and they are able to. You know, make sure that's practical for them and how that looks like, what's best for them and their families.
Juravich: We've been talking about the Haitian community in central Ohio with Yola Lamarre, external relations coordinator for the Haitians Community Network. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Lamarre: Thank you for having me. Thank you.
Juravich: This has been All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. Thanks for listening. I'm Amy Juravich.