For the Columbus Zoo and Aquarium, it’s prime time.
The kids are out of school, the weather is sunny, and thousands of people each day visit one of Ohio’s most popular tourist attractions.
Thanks to a $50 million dollar gift, the largest ever received, expansion plans are shifting from dream to drawing board in the form of an aquarium.
Meanwhile, a tax tussle with Liberty Township ends through legislative action, and recent fake bomb threats activate security measures.
We catch up with Columbus Zoo and Aquarium CEO Tom Schmid on this hour of All Sides.
Guest:
- Tom Schmid, president and CEO, Columbus Zoo and Aquarium
Transcript
This transcript is generated with AI. To ensure its accuracy, review the audio file.
Amy Juravich: Welcome to All Sides with Amy Juravich. It's been a newsy few weeks for the Columbus Zoo and Aquarium. The zoo recently added the largest philanthropic gift in its history, $50 million, to build a standalone aquarium to house more than 10,000 animals. But first, a conservation and acclimation center estimated at $11 million will be constructed. And an on-site upscale hotel may be in the works as well. Joining us to talk about all this zoo news and more is Columbus Zoo and Aquarium President and CEO Tom Schmid. Welcome back to All Sides, Tom.
Tom Schmid: Hey Amy, thanks so much for having me.
Juravich: All right, a $50 million gift is quite the gift. I mean, that's quite the donation. It comes from the Wolf Foundation. The Wolf family is one of the foundational families of the city and their relationship with the zoo goes back nearly a hundred years, I read. But can you tell us how this gift came about?
Schmid: Well, yeah, certainly, I mean, it's superlative, transformational, generational. This is by far the largest gift we've ever received. And I think about this as really just part of their ongoing legacy. I mean the Wolf family, as you mentioned, I mean that the first donation of reindeer back in 1927, which essentially launched the Columbus Zoo and their involvement really ever since, board leadership, support.
Guidance. They've just been inextricably linked with the Columbus Zoo for 99 years. So this is sort of, I think, a fitting recognition for us, a tribute to the family, the legacy of what they've meant, not just for the zoo, really for the community, for central Ohio, for the state of Ohio. The Wolf family bought reindeer, not wolves. That was the original donation to launch the zoo. Absolutely.
Juravich: That's amazing. So was this in the works for a long time, like the 50 million number, or did it come about suddenly? Did you get a phone call and suddenly you had $50 million?
Schmid: No, these types of gifts usually are, there's a lot of guidance and effort and conversation that goes into this. So Katie was the chair of our board two years ago, and actually she was part of the search committee that selected me to come here. Katie's in the Wolf family. Katie Wolf, yeah, right. So I really got to know Katie. Katie was one of the first people I met when I moved to Columbus, and we developed a great relationship, a strong relationship.
And so, shortly after I started, we began a master planning process and a strategic planning process. And out of that came a pretty comprehensive new master plan for both the zoo, our Powell campus, as well as the Wilds. And part of it is really how do we turn our existing site from what is today largely a regional seasonal attraction to really more of a year round Midwest destination.
And so there's lots more that will be part of that and we'll be able to share more as we develop more plans. But the aquarium idea came up relatively early. It's something that folks can enjoy year round. It complements our existing interpretive program. Our existing aquarium is wonderful, but it's pretty modest and probably over 30 years old. So it was time for an upgrade and we came up with a heck of an upgrade.
Juravich: This is a heck of an upgrade, especially from the aquarium you have now. No offense to it. Exactly. But, you know, it is a little old and a little dark.
Schmid: It's loved and cherished, but I think our guests present and future will be absolutely blown away by the new wolf aquarium
Juravich: So just to do a few numbers, 10,000 animals, 300 species, a million gallons of water. That's big, it's gonna be big. So compare it for people who have been to the Newport Aquarium, what size was?
Schmid: Yes, similar in size, but I think what's really exciting about the Wolf Aquarium is just looking at the regions that we'll interpret, both freshwater and marine habitats. So going from the Scioto River to the Amazon in South America and then taking our guests on a journey from the Pacific Northwest to the Caribbean Sea to the Indo-Pacific region, one of the most biodiverse marine habitats on Earth. All those will be interpreted in the new aquarium.
Juravich: Okay, so if we're standing in the zoo parking lot, where's it going to go? Do you have a plot of land picked out? Absolutely.
Schmid: Absolutely. So we're fortunate we have I think the largest zoo parking lot of any zoo on earth. And so it truly is. It's nearly 70 acres. And we really only fill it up maybe 10 days a year. So 90 percent of the time it's probably half full, three quarters full.
So if you think about, as you mentioned, facing the zoo, if you look off to your right, we're going to carve about 10 acres out of that land there to build the aquarium, which is good because that'll be real near the entrance to the zoo. It'll be adjacent to our education center.
Juravich: Or Edwood's education center. Yeah, Zumbizi Bay's to the left. To the left, probably will be to the right. OK, got it, got. What about like some of the current things you have? So like the manatees, will they move to the new?
Schmid: Will they move to the new? No, no, no. So that's the other nice advantage of how we have this planned out. The only thing that will change is our existing aquarium. So manatees will stay where they are. Our sea lion and seal program will stay where they, are certainly polar bears will stay, where they. So this is we're going to be able to concentrate on the primarily the fish collection, the fish species that occur in these marine and freshwater habitats.
Juravich: So the old aquarium though, the well-loved, but old aquarium, will that go away though?
Schmid: Well, the building will not go away. So that's structurally, that's still a very sound building. So I imagine we're going to use that for some additional animal holding, particularly for the wintertime. We may use it for educational space, but we won't have fish in there, if you will.
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking this hour with Columbus Zoo and Aquarium President and CEO Tom Schmid, and we're talking about some expansion plans. Now, I read the overall price tag is $175 million, so you got $50 million from the Wolf family, but my math tells me that you need another $125 million. Where will that come from? Yes.
Schmid: Yeah, so we're still actively fundraising for that goal. We'll certainly have internal funding that we'll be able to put toward the program. So yeah, we're not ready to break ground today. Our goal is to break around sometime in 2027.
Juravich: Okay. And so the 125 million, are you talking like, are you going to have to increase zoo admission to make up some money or you want it to be all private donors?
Schmid: No, this will this will come from philanthropy. It will come from earned revenue from from the zoo. It will you know, we potentially could take on debt if we needed to either short term or long term to be able to make this work. So we're committed to building this and it is expensive, you're right.
But we've got a good business model in place. We think it's going to cost somewhere between 15 to 20 million a year to operate the new aquarium will will generate probably 45 new full time positions. And so that's why there'll be a separate ticket price for the zoo. So we had really two choices. We could have either just increased the price of the zoo and then allowed everyone to go to the zoo and the aquarium, or we treat the aquarium as a separate attraction, similar to Zumbisi Bay.
In some cases, it works to combine it with the zoo, but because the Columbus Zoo is so large, folks on average spend about five hours at the zoo so thinking about the typical family. Spending five hours at the zoo, are they likely gonna wanna spend an additional two hours at aquarium? Now some may, but we think that most folks probably will choose to come to the aquarium on a different day.
Juravich: Okay, are you going to offer some sort of deal where if you buy a zoo ticket you get a cheaper aquarium ticket?
Schmid: You get a cheaper aquarium ticket and we'll do something similar probably with our membership or our season pass program as well
Juravich: So you could have a membership that includes both the zoo and the aquarium, that kind of thing. Now, Franklin County residents get a discount at the zoo on their membership, and that relates to Franklin County paying tax money to the zoo. Are you going to have to put a levy on the ballot to pay for this aquarium?
Schmid: No, that's not our plan. Our plan is that the aquarium will generate sufficient operating revenue to cover all of the expenses and support some of our conservation work.
Juravich: Okay. And I've asked you this before, so I'll ask you it again. The zoo land itself sits in Delaware County. You mentioned it's in Powell. Will you decide at some point to maybe have Delaware County residents pay taxes toward it?
Schmid: You know that's something we could certainly consider in the future. I think a lot of folks in Delaware County would probably appreciate a discount coming to the zoo. I know for Franklin County residents the amount of tax that they support the zoo is similar to what a membership the discount in the membership.
So it kind of pays for itself in some respects. So that's something that we could consider in future. We're not actively involved with discussions today with Delaware County about that. But but who knows. Okay, well
Juravich: I mean, yeah, you said, who knows? So this is a time right now when everything is very expensive. Undertaking a giant project like this is probably going to be even more expensive than your projections say. So are you at all worried about paying for it and making it happen? No.
Schmid: No, we're pretty confident. So we've been, again, we've been working on this for over two years. We have a great architectural team on board. We've got a great construction management crew on board, we have gone through a number of different cost estimation exercises. We're largely, we're nearing the end of design development. So the design is pretty fixed at this point.
We'll move into construction documents this summer. We have preliminary cost estimates and we've also built in. Inflationary measures within that cost estimate, because we know, as you said, the cost of construction is going up every year. So we've built that into the plan. So we're confident with the cost estimate that we have today.
Juravich: And I said it as kind of an aside, but I want to know more because it's before the aquarium. I read you have to build a new conservation and acclimation center. Right. What is what is that?
Schmid: So if you think about it, all the inhabitants of the new aquarium, before they actually go into the aquarium, they need to pass through a quarantine period. So that's a period where we bring fish in, either fish that we've acquired from other aquariums, fish that were maybe part of an aquaculture program, or to some extent some fish that where collected in the wild. So some of the animals that we'll have at the new wolf aquarium will come from the wild we want to make sure that those fish are healthy.
We want to make sure they're eating well. We wanna make sure they're free of parasites. And so this is this is a process that can take anywhere from from a month to six months or longer. And, so all the fish before they go into the aquarium will pass through the acclamation center. So we're building essentially a small marine acclamation and quarantine facility on our main campus.
Now, after we finish, after, we open the aquarium. Going to repurpose that area to be more of a research and conservation center. So we're going to be able to expand the work we do with corals currently. We'll be able to do more research on marine aquaculture. And it will essentially become an educational display for us. We will allow school kids to come through there. They can learn about mariculture, aquaculture, coral propagation, some of the things that we're doing to help some of these animals survive in the wild.
Juravich: Oh, and you mentioned school kids, that's interesting because you get a lot of school groups that go to the zoo, but now you've just doubled where your school groups can go because a school wouldn't be able to do the zoo and the aquarium, so that's two field trips now.
Schmid: It is, and in addition to the entire aquarium, there'll be specific learning studios within the aquarium for educational activities and things like that. So I know our educators are pretty excited about this new program.
Juravich: Well, related to making the zoo a destination and being a tourist attraction, there are plans that have been announced, talked about, discussed, said maybe for an on-site hotel. The zoo described it as your desire is a themed upper upscale hotel. What does that mean?
Schmid: So yeah, that's the semantics. Yeah, you're right. The idea of a hotel has been contemplated on our main campus for a long time, but we really got serious about that a couple years ago. So we hired a firm, Hotel and Leisure Advisors. They're some of the best in the business, and they did a really deep dive assessment. They looked at the market. They They looked at our program and they looked at... The surrounding hotel community.
They looked at the growth trajectories for both the city of Powell and Delaware County. And they came back with about a 200 page report. And the long story short was it indicated that a hotel would be successful on our main campus. So.
Juravich: There's not really a hotel very close.
Schmid: No it's several miles away and so we thought we thought that's a real opportunity and again back to what I shared earlier about the the shift in our business strategy from going being a regional seasonal attraction to more of a four-season year-round destination a hotel certainly supports that so we just did the RFQ had some really good interest from from a number of different firms we're starting to narrow that list down and then we'll do an RFP and actually make a selection for a hotel operator to work with as we move forward with this.
Juravich: So this isn't a maybe this is going to happen. Okay. So if I'm so all right again, I'm standing in the zoo parking lot and I'm looking and the zoo's in the middle zoom easy base to the left, the new aquariums to the right. Where's the hotel?
Schmid: So that, I would say that's still TBD. We have two locations that we're looking at. The original location was closer to our heart of Africa, Savannah area. Okay. And there's some synergies there. We have the Africa Event Center, which is a heavily used event center for us.
But now we're look at possibly locating it sort of between the zoo and the water park. So. We're, I think once we get the hotel developer on board, I mean that's really their expertise, they'll probably go through all the research that we've already done and determine, yes, that's the best location. So right now we're leaning more toward the location kind of between the zoo and the water park. Interesting.
Juravich: Okay, so that would be it would mean it would you'd have to like go through the entrance to get to the hotel though
Schmid: Not necessarily. You build a new entrance. Yeah. It would be either a new entrance or it would be located at the far end of the parking lot there. So we clearly want to make it very convenient for out-of-town guests coming in.
Juravich: So the idea would be someone coming from out of town would wanna spend a whole day at the zoo, stay overnight, and then maybe do day two at the aquarium or Zumbizi Bay or both.
Schmid: Or Safari Golf Club or the Wolf Aquarium, exactly. So we have enough, we'll have enough sort of onsite attractions that this becomes more than a day-long experience.
Juravich: Okay, so you said you want the aquarium open by 2029. When would you think the hotel would be open?
Schmid: Ideally by 2029 as well. Okay.
Juravich: All right, well, we are talking with the CEO of the zoo, Tom Schmid, and coming up, we're going to talk about the Liberty Township tax tussle, and also we'll talk about some ongoing conservation efforts. That's when All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.
Juravich: You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich.
Thousands of people every day pass through the gates of the Columbus Zoo and Aquarium, one of Ohio's most popular tourist attractions. A new $175 million aquarium is slated to open in 2029. And before that, an $11 million conservation and acclimation center will also be constructed. Plus, there's talk of an on-site upscale hotel. All of this are a part of the zoo's long-term growth strategy, and we're talking about it all this hour with Columbus Zoo and Aquarium President and CEO Tom Schmid. Thanks again for being here today, Tom. Sure thing, Amy.
So there has been quite the tax tussle between the zoo and Liberty Township recently. I'm gonna try to synthesize it, explain it. Liberty Township was charging a 75 cent ticket tax to help pay for fire and EMS runs to the zoo. The zoo was in an ongoing legal battle over whether that 75 cent tax was allowed. Then state lawmakers passed a bill that would ban townships from charging fees on tickets to local entertainment venues, the zoo included.
And then we learned from reporting in the Columbus Dispatch just yesterday that Governor DeWine actually helped to broker a deal between the zoo and Liberty Township related to all of this. So before he signed the bill eliminating the fees, he met with you and to make sure that the zoo was paying something related to these EMS costs. So let's take me back. Tell me about this meeting with the governor.
Schmid: Yeah, so that was a good meeting. The governor, and he has a terrific negotiator that really helped mediate that. I think from our perspective, so you have to back up a little bit.
Juravich: Did I explain it well? I was trying to make it, yeah.
Schmid: You did, but you left that one really important feature and that was the genesis of this statute. So this was a law that was put on the books toward the end of the last legislative session, sort of at the last minute, specifically for the Anderson Township and the River Bend Music Festival in Cincinnati. So they wanted to charge the River bend music festival that had gone from a not for profit status to a for profit, or I'm sorry, for profit to not for profit status. And so... Very narrowly written legislation, specifically for music venues, they were allowed to tax music venues.
So when we first learned about this, we really didn't give it much thought. We thought, well, we're not a music venue. We're a wildlife conservation organization. This wouldn't apply to us. Well, Liberty Township decided to, in fact, apply it to us, and so that'where we had an issue with this. We though this was, in retrospect, I think the legislators fully agree it was poorly written legislation, unintended consequences. This could have impacted churches and youth groups all across the state of Ohio that could have been taxed if they had a concert at their facility. So we felt really strongly that the first order business was to fix the legislation.
So we've been working on that for probably six months and we were really pleased with the overwhelming support we got from the legislature, from the Ohio Chamber, from the Columbus Chamber, from the Ohio Business Roundtable, I mean universally everyone recognized that this was a mistake and they had to fix it. So we got that taken care of. Now we can really determine what's the cost for Liberty Township to provide this service for the zoo. And so we've always said all along, we don't wanna be a burden on the township and that's why we now have private EMS service at the zoo, so we have an ambulance on site during operating hours.
They can provide. Really quick response and so. Did you have that before? We didn't, we didn't. No, and again, that was specifically done to address the issue that Liberty Township indicated that we were a burden on them. So, we've got that private EMS service now. We'll still rely on Liberty Township if we have multiple calls during the day or if someone at the zoo calls 911, Liberty Township will respond. But if there's an injury now, if our staff gets injured or if a guest gets injured in our EMS report, they'll respond immediately. If we need to transport that person to the hospital, our on-site transport can do that and can do it very efficiently.
Juravich: So this is going to really cut down the number of EMS runs Liberty Township has to do. Is this just something that had not occurred to you that was needed before?
Schmid: It really hadn't. I mean, we had been relying on Liberty Township to provide this service for us for decades. You know, we have a hundred staff members that work, that live in the township. I live in that township, I pay property tax. We all pay property taxes to help support the town ship. So we never really gave it much of an issue up until this legislation.
Juravich: Okay, so back to the governor meeting though, the governor wanted to make sure that the zoo agreed to pay something before before he signed this bill that would eliminate the, the ticket tax, he wanted to make sure the zoo and the town and Liberty Township were in agreement. Yep. Alright, so the zoo has agreed to pay $2,750 per EMS run for the next five years. That's true. Do you have estimates on how many that will be or how much you're going to end up paying?
Schmid: I don't, I don't and it's clear that that's actually not just for transports, if someone calls for an ambulance at the zoo, the ambulance comes to the zoo but doesn't transport, we still have to pay them and we will. So it's not just transport but actually runs. I don't have an idea what that number will be. I think we'll have a better sense. The private EMS service that we've employed, we started that at the end of May, so we're
Juravich: And do you know how much that costs per month?
Schmid: Oh gosh, I think it was about $80,000 for the summer, something like that. For the summer? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, and that's when we see most of the calls.
Juravich: Is paying this $2,750 per EMS run gonna be less than the 75 cent per ticket tax?
Schmid: Far less far less. Yeah, it will be a yeah, it's exponentially less
Juravich: Well, I think the ticket tax that 75 cents went into effect in August or September because in the lawsuits that have been going back and forth, the judges, for the most part, had been siding with the township and the zoo was appealing. But since August or september, do you know how much money went to Liberty Township? I don't. OK, we'll have to check with Liberty Township on that. But you overall, though, you did not necessarily need to agree to this. I mean, lawmakers had already taken away the Liberty Townships ability to tax your tickets. So, so when you met with the governor, I mean, why did you agree to this?
Schmid: Well, because the governor asked us to and quite honestly, I mean, I think he he was really trying to find a solution that would work for the zoo and work for the township. I mean clearly charging every zoo guest, every member a dollar every time they come made no sense. So I think and we've always been about yes, we're happy to work with you and help reimburse some of the hard costs that you have for for running these transports. There's value to that. And so I think this was a good way for the governor really to to to help us come to a deal.
Juravich: Okay, but if the governor hadn't asked you, would you not be paying this?
Schmid: Oh, we might still have. We've said all along that we're happy to sit down with the township and work this out, but we needed to get the legislation fixed first.
Juravich: Okay, so do you know if the governor was going to sign the legislation if you hadn't come to the table to agree? I mean, do you have to ask the governor? Okay. Yeah Um, so but the way the lawmakers went about this it was kind of like a last-minute bill Um, a lot of people didn't know about it. It didn't sit well with the township that they were taking away this ticket tax thing Um, can you understand where liberty township was coming from?
Schmid: No, I don't think that's accurate. We've been working on this, we've been visiting with the legislators for several months, really since the beginning of the session, in the beginning of this year. So again, this statute, it was clearly recognized as poor legislation, as poorly drafted legislation with unintended consequences. So I think it was just a matter of what was the appropriate bill to attach it to, but this was not a last minute effort. This is something we've working on for six months.
Juravich: Okay, so basically right now the private EMS that you have is going to take care of a lot of these runs. That's right. So if someone calls 911, Liberty Township has to respond. That's the law. But if you have something that happens internally, you'll just get your own private company to take of it. Is this a done deal, this $2,750 per EMS run for the next five years? Is it? It is. You signed something? We agreed to that. Okay. Yep. Is there anything still in the works with the township, or are you two friends again?
Schmid: Yeah, we don't we're not having any other discussions about anything else at this point
Juravich: Okay, all right. This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News and we're talking about news with the Columbus Zoo and new projects at the Columbus zoo and aquarium with president and CEO, Tom Schmid. Let's talk about some animals for a few minutes. So there's a new animal, a new baby giraffe. It has a new name. More than 7,000 people voted. You did one of those polls to try to vote to name the baby giraffe, what did we land on?
Schmid: A Jasper.
Juravich: Jasper. Yes, I want I voted for Tim.
Schmid: Okay, well, could've been Tom, but yeah, so.
Juravich: Yeah. Oh, yeah, that you didn't want it named after you. OK, so how's the baby giraffe?
Schmid: He's doing really well. I've, I've I try to stop by heart of Africa at least a couple times a week and, and just seeing him out there with the other giraffe, you know, you, you appreciate how extraordinary these animals are. I mean, this is an animal that's a couple months old. He's already seven feet tall, making his way around the Savannah, acting like a grownup giraffe. They are, they're just remarkable animals. And, and for, for our guests to have a chance to see them in such an expansive habitat, And it's a pretty exceptional experience.
Juravich: I wanted to pivot over to the North America trek. You were on the show a year ago, just as North America was opening. It was designed to capture the spirit of the national parks. It has waterfalls and landscape and wildlife, an eight acre region with Mexican wolves, bald eagles, black bears, and more. I mean, it's been open a year. What's the response been like to North America?
Schmid: The response has been incredible. Folks are really enjoying it. You know, certainly we've seen an increase in attendance. We're up about 7 percent right now versus last year. I think it's been a wonderful experience for our guests, but we've also seen some really important improvements in animal well-being from the animals. So, particularly the Mexican wolves. If you recall in the past that habitat you actually look down on the wolves.
And we know now from animal well-being research that we've done that these apex predators feel more comfortable if we're looking up at them. And so the new habitat, the elevation where the wolves are is higher than the people. They're actually looking down on us, which is the way it should be. And they're much more comfortable. They're more active. They have more space. So that's been a wonderful new program.
It's been really fun to watch the river otters in the new exhibit. The river.
Juravich: The River Otter exhibit is beautiful. It is.
Schmid: It is. I think it's, you know, I'm a little biased, but I think it's one of the best river otter habitats that I've seen at any zoo in the country, even globally. So they've really enjoyed that. Lots of activity, seeing them swim, seeing them run through the waterfalls has been remarkable.
And then just the inspiring stories that, you know, we were nearing completion of the exhibit, and the bear exhibit, and we got a call from a wildlife officer in Montana that they had two orphan bear cubs that needed a home. So, Nikki Smith, our curator, flew up there, picked up these two bears, brought them back to Columbus, and now they're finding a forever home in the new bear habitat.
Juravich: So you hadn't planned on those two bears? We had not. Wow. And their names are Ursula and, is it, I don't know how to say it, Zemma? Zemmah. Zemah? OK. Yeah, a recent social media post shared a video of those cubs. And they've been with the zoo for nearly a year. Their mother was euthanized because of a human-wildlife conflict. Can you tell me, do you know about that, or do you know what happened there? I don't
Schmid: I don't have any of the details, but sometimes if you have humans that are encroaching in wildlife habitats, you have unfortunate situations. And so if there's an animal that gets habituated to human populations and the wildlife officer officials deem that that animal is now a threat, in some cases it has to be removed or euthanized. And in this case I think it was euthenized. So yeah, it's just an unfortunate.
It's an unfortunate thing that happens sometimes with human-wildlife interactions. And as much as we try to minimize those, there's always gonna be a risk. So fortunately, there are zoos like the Columbus Zoo that can care for if there's orphan cubs, for example, we can take care of those. I think it's the best outcome that could have come from something like that. Will the cubs be with you forever or more than likely? Yeah, I mean, there's a possibility they could be sent to another zoo, one of our partners, but more than like they'll stay at the Columbus Zoo. OK, well.
Juravich: North America Trek was supposed to be a two-phase project, so are you working on phase two?
Schmid: We are. We're working on the design for the second phase, so that's areas where we have our Canadian Lynx, our Wolverines, our Cougars, and so yeah, still in the design phase of that. We hope to begin construction on that in 27 as well.
Juravich: Okay, when would that open? How long?
Schmid: And that would open in 20, 2029.
Juravich: Twenty twenty twenty twenty nine is going to be a big year for you. Another big year. All right. If everything goes according to plan, we've got to pace ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. So I've been to North America Trek several times. I will say that I'm a I'm a zoo member. So the the the wolves exhibit, you are right. They're very active. I have never seen animals so active as every time I've went there. They're just running around. Is it always like that? Well, it is.
Schmid: Well, it is. And again, I think it was a lot of thought going into the design of that habitat to make sure it's the best possible home for these animals.
Juravich: And I know it's all about timing with zoo animals, because you can't make them be active when you happen to be standing in front of them. But each time I try to go see the otters, they've either been sleeping or not out.
Schmid: Oh, is that right? Yeah, I know I need to come by more often because they spend a lot of time. I'm sure they do. I just think I think I have bad timing. Yeah. Yeah, we had good timing with the wolves.
Juravich: Yes, very good. So there are a few animals, though, are not there. Are you no longer going to have bison? Because that's who used to be up on the wharf hill. That's right, that's right.
Schmid: That's right. That's a difficult decision that the Columbus Zoo and a lot of zoos are having to make now. So I think as you look forward 10, 20 years, you will almost certainly see less numbers of species of animals at our zoo and probably a lot other zoos in the country. But you'll see larger habitats for the remaining zoos, better well-being for the remaining animals in those zoos.
Yeah, we had a single bison, so we've got such an opportunity to do amazing work with bison at the wilds. That's really the best habitat for them out there. You might recall we had a single Asian one-horned rhino at the zoo years ago, and that animal now is residing at another zoo, and that allowed us to expand our elephant yard. So again, we have less species there, but we have more space for the animals, more space with the elephants now. And that's a trend that's gonna continue.
Juravich: One animal that was missing from the North America area that my son noted and he was wondering where it went was the beaver exhibit. Are the beavers gone?
Schmid: Yep that was another one we decided that there are probably other zoos that could do that better and it just we really wanted to focus on the species that we're currently focusing on now.
Juravich: To the larger question of how animals come to be in the zoo's care, you house orphaned mountain lions rescued after wildfires, injured eagles, vulnerable species needing care. Is that how a lot of them come to you? Do you set out and say, you know, we're looking for these certain animals? Do all zoos talk to each other? Or does it just, you got a call about the two black bear cubs and that's how you end up with them?
Schmid: So, all three of the things that you just said are correct. This is a complex subject. So, yes, in the North America region, that area specifically, part of the mission of that region is to house rescued and orphaned animals. Now, if you look at other regions around the zoo, virtually all of those animals were born at other zoos. And so, we actively work with all of our accredited partners, not just in the United States, but even around the world.
Through a Species Survival Program, which is essentially the animal management program within our association. So we have taxon advisors, we have professionals, for example, some of our staff members help coordinate breeding recommendations for animals that exist in zoos around the U.S. And it's a very coordinated, it's very complex operation. We track the genealogy of these animals, so we make sure that we can maintain genetic diversity. And that really allows us to be essentially completely sustainable with our zoo collections without having to collect any terrestrial mammals from the wild.
Juravich: And do you have any plans with the North America 2 expansion? Are there any animals you need, or do you have them all somewhere just waiting for the wolverines? Are they just waiting?
Schmid: Yeah, we'll continue to maintain Wolverine. So that's interesting. We now have two heritage pigs in the North America region. And these were rescued animals. These were animals that we were contacted by the owners. They were overweight. They had sort of outgrown their existing space. And so they are now residing in our old river otter habitat in North America tracks, so guests can see these animals now.
I don't know much about them, other than that they are enormous. I mean, they are over 300 pounds. It's the largest pigs I've ever seen. But they're fascinating. So we're working now on a diet plan and an exercise and enrichment plan to begin to reduce their weight to a more healthy weight. But I suspect they'll probably stay with us for quite some time.
Juravich: We are talking with the Columbus Zoo and Aquarium President and CEO Tom Schmid and coming up we're going to talk about security at the zoo. There have been some recent fake bomb threats, not just at the Columbus zoo, but elsewhere. That's when all sides continues on 89 7 NPR news. You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich.
Juravich: You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich.
We're talking this hour with Columbus Zoo and Aquarium president and CEO Tom Schmid. There has been a lot to talk about. A new aquarium, a $50 million gift, conservation efforts, baby animals and more. Columbus Zoo & Aquarium CEO Tom Schmid is with us. Thank you again for joining us today.
Schmid: Thanks so much for having me, Amy.
Juravich: So some not so welcome news in May, in early May, there were two days of evacuations because of false bomb and active shooter threats. And zoos seem like unusual targets on the one hand, but it certainly created like this maximum disruption, right? So can you take us back to those days? I mean, what is involved in the zoo getting a security threat like that? And what kind of decisions do you have to make?
Schmid: Yeah, that was a hugely disruptive situation. So fortunately, so this trend actually started earlier in the year at Zoo Miami. And so we had started seeing news reports and heard from our colleagues that zoos were beginning to be targeted. So we started doing more tabletop exercises. We started doing more security rounds in the zoo. We have a very sophisticated. Threat detection system at the entrance of the zoo.
We use a technology from a company called Evolve, and it's much more than just a metal detector. It can actually detect all kinds of different weapons, bombs, things like that. So we've always been very confident that it's essentially impossible for someone to bring 50 pipe bombs into the zoo, but we take the threat seriously, and we had actually done some tabletop training the week of the first call that we received. And so. When we did receive that call, we took it seriously, we took a lot of notes, we immediately contacted Delaware County Sheriff, they responded quickly, we swept the zoo, obviously we didn't find anything, but we did do an evacuation that day.
And then, as you know, several days later, the same thing happened. So, I'd mentioned to you, there was an article in the New York Times, this has happened to 40 zoos so far this year. And we can't, we're not convinced that it's all the same group, it's likely copycat. Threat actors that are doing this, but the goal as with higher ed organizations and with schools and with libraries and with hospitals, it's to cause massive disruption to these organizations and so it's just incredibly unfortunate.
We haven't had any incidents since then and I'd say we have a much more rigorous evaluation process. Now, when these calls come in to determine if there's any indication whatsoever that it might be a real threat. So I think we're much more prepared than we were. We were well prepared when it first happened, but no, we've been fortunate that we haven't seen any incidents since then.
Juravich: Making the decision to evacuate the whole zoo and close down, I mean, that's a big disruptive decision. Do you think was that necessary? Was that just out of an abundance of caution?
Schmid: It was an abundance of costs, and obviously we now know that those were hoaxes, but I think going forward we're going to approach each one again specifically with a threat matrix in front of us to determine if it's a credible threat.
Juravich: And talk to me about, I understand evacuating the people, but animals, some of them are very sensitive. They're intuitive creatures. I mean, did animals know about this disruption? Could you sense that?
Schmid: Yeah, that's a good question. And then probably to have to lean on our curators to answer that. The search that we did with the Delaware County was thorough, but it was also calm, it was focused, it was not chaotic. Our guests, in fact, I really have to shout out to all the guests who were at the zoo that day. It was very calm, it very orderly, they did exactly what we asked for them. And so the whole process I think ran very smooth.
I mean, it was certainly disruptive for folks wanting to have a great day at the Zoo. But the orderly fashion that everyone cooperated in was really spoke to me to the amazingly good behavior of our guests.
Juravich: Did you end up giving refunds? We did, certainly, yeah. Sure thing. Because it was early May, my thoughts immediately went to that there were probably a lot of school field trips there. We had to do that.
Schmid: We had some school field trips as well, yeah.
Juravich: Yeah, so I just felt sad for the kids that they had to like leave the zoo, you know, because it's hard. You can't really reschedule a field trip when it's already May. What about going forward? I mean, the Columbus Zoo wasn't the only one targeted. You mentioned that the New York Times reported 40 zoos were targeted, Toledo and Akron, others around the country. I mean are zoos all talking? Like, do you need, is there something the zoo can do to stop this?
Schmid: Well, I think I would say the vast majority of zoos don't have the security threat detection systems that we do. I mean, we're one of the largest zoos in the country. It's not unlike what you see going, you know, that security system. It's similar to what you would see at the Blue Jacket Stadium or at the crew or at OSU, at the horseshoe.
So, I think... I think guests are going to begin to understand this is a fact of life and I think you'll probably start seeing more zoos and more cultural attractions in general implement increased threat detection systems at the entrance just to make sure that no weapons, that no bombs, that no threats are entering their facility.
Juravich: Do you know if your system is pretty new, right? The new threat detection system that you opened, the new security, the way, the, I mean, it's been a couple of years? Yeah, it has been actually.
Schmid: Yes, but actually we've had it in place at Zoom Beasy Bay I think for four years now and at the zoo for three years.
Juravich: Okay, I didn't realize it was that long. Do you catch people bringing things into the zoo? They shouldn't? We do.
Schmid: We do, and more often than not, it's inadvertent, but yeah, so we ask folks and they're always good about, oh yeah, I forgot I had a gun in my diaper bag or I forgot a knife or something like that. And so they're quick to take those out, put them back in their car, and we've not had any issues with that.
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking with Columbus Zoo and Aquarium President and CEO Tom Schmid about all the news at the zoo. And since those two incidents in May, have you not had any others? No. Okay, well, we'll leave it there.
I wanted to pivot back to the North America exhibit because one thing I forgot to ask you about was a part of the North American exhibit is you built this big indoor building that you said to me off air, a fancy name. I didn't know the name of it. So tell me about the nice building. It's the only.
Schmid: So it's the Ohio Center for Wildlife Conservation. So it actually, we repurposed an existing building. We built out some laboratory space in there, and now we culture our hellbenders. So we talked about the largest amphibian in North America, the hellbender salamander that lives in Ohio's rivers. We've been part of a reintroduction plan for that species for a number of years. In fact, we've reintroduced over 2,000 hellbenders. Into Ohio rivers and streams over the last 10 years.
We also have a section in there that's focused on our plains garter snake reintroduction program. We talk about our burying beetle project at the Wilds where these critically important beetles that help with soil health and the decomposition that are vital to our wellbeing. Working with the Cincinnati Zoo and Ohio State to repopulate burying beetles. And even our freshwater mussel facility. We have a state-of-the-art, world-class, freshwater mussels research facility right across the river from the zoo that most people probably have no idea.
So we're highlighting all of these projects in this new space. So guests can come in there, they can see the plains garter snakes, they can learn about what a hell bender is, and that's actually gonna be, it's a bit of a test model for a larger Columbus Center for Wildlife Conservation that we're gonna be building in the future.
Juravich: We didn't talk about that yet. What's that so that'll be a new facility that that will be likely adjacent to it'll be adjacent to our education building our Edwards education building and that will house all of our conservation staff.
Schmid: It will be a meeting space for visiting researchers and scientists and we'll also have some interpretive material in there. And that will showcase really all of the global projects that we focus on so the Ohio Center in North America is really focused on conservation work that we're doing right here in central Ohio. The Columbus Center, which we'll build in the future, will focus on all of our global conservation work.
Juravich: Tell me about putting this in front of people because I think most people who visit the zoo just you know want to you know walk around look at the animals and they don't think about the the deeper behind the scenes conservation work was it important to you to put some of this in from of people so that they know that the zoo is more than just a place to look at animals.
Schmid: Yeah, we think that's critical. And so I don't consider our organization a zoo. I consider, if I would describe us today, it's a wildlife conservation institution that happens to run a zoo and a water park and a conservation center at the Wilds and a hotel in the future and a golf course and an aquarium and all these different things that will fall under this sort of Columbus Zoo conservation umbrella. So. Where we and we've been more intentional about this so i don't know if you've noticed but as you walk to the zoo you're there's there's a lot more interpretive material now that talk about the conservation work that we do and we really and even at the water park we talk about some of the different local projects that we're doing and those have been showcased in the new uh... Attraction that we launched last year at conservation tower
We want folks to understand yes it's it's a great experience to come to the zoo they're going to learn about animals are going to have an amazing experience with their family. But just by coming to the zoo just by buying a ticket or a membership they're helping save animals from extinction because a portion of that their ticket fund is going toward our conservation work
Juravich: I have never learned more about hellbenders than I have in the past year. They are a not so cute animal with a really cool name.
Schmid: Some would disagree, but yeah, they have, they're remarkable animals, as I said, the largest amphibian in the world.
Juravich: But they tell you if the river or the creek that you're in is healthy. If there's a hellbender there, then it's healthy. And if they're not there or they're dying, then there's something wrong. Absolutely, yeah. I wanted to spend a few minutes, we're almost out of time, talking about the wilds because you've mentioned it a bunch of times and I feel like we spend a lot of time talking about this zoo and we're talking about all your new stuff, but the wild is a very important part of what you do. What do you want to tell me about new stuff at the wild?
Schmid: Well, the Wilds is remarkable. It's our wildlife conservation park, nearly 10,000 acres, one of the most unique experiences in the country to see animals from Asia and Africa and even from North America. Opened up our RV hellbender campground last summer. See, it's a cool name. You had to name it. We did. We actually have a hellbend on display at the camp store at the ground. Just another opportunity for folks to be able to spend multiple days at the Wilds.
There's so much to do out there, it's almost impossible to do in one day, so that's why we've had good success with some of the lodging. We have yurts there, we have cabins, and now we have a new opportunity with the Hellbender Campground. And then the other big project, this is actually under construction as we speak, so we're building a new giraffe barn. It will be a state-of-the-art facility for our giraffe. It'll be about four times larger than the existing giraffe barn.
Our giraffe program out there continues to grow and expand. But one of the most unique features of that, there will be two suites within the giraffe barn so you can spend the night with the giraffe.
Juravich: Really? That's fascinating.
Schmid: That's going to open next. Is it going to be a little.
Juravich: Is it gonna be a little smelly? I don't know.
Schmid: So we've thought through that. So you'll have to trust me. But no, it's it's yeah, it
Juravich: So like a hotel stay, you can stay in the draft barn? Exactly. Will it be kind of rustic like the yurts are or is it going to be like...
Schmid: No, this is going to be pretty nice.
Juravich: Wow, when is that going to be ready?
Schmid: So we'll finish construction at the end of this year, then it'll probably take a few months to get the animals acclimated to move from the old barn into the new barn. And then, so yeah, so probably next spring, a year from now, you'll be able to spend the night with a giraffe.
Juravich: Wow. Okay. So you have so many projects underway and most of them had a 2029 date, but this one is much closer.
Schmid: Twenty twenty-seven, twenty-nine.
Juravich: And then you also have what is called the wild like W-I-L-D Zero Waste Challenge. And it's a free month long sustainability challenge that's taking place through July. The acronym stands for Walk Intentionally, Live Differently. Can you tell me about this Zero Wast Challenge? Yeah.
Schmid: Yeah, so this is a really key part of our sustainability program. So several years ago, I mentioned our new strategic plan. Part of that strategic plan was a much more intentional focus on sustainability. So we're going to celebrate our 100th anniversary, our 100 birthday next year. And we want to make sure- With the zoo opened in 1920s. We need to make the things we're doing today and tomorrow and next week and next month are really building on that foundation so that the Columbus who in the wilds will be relevant a hundred years from now and so part of that is the long-term sustainability strategy and several years ago we were fortunate to hire a new director sustainability Christina blazer and she's done a terrific job of developing this new sustainability strategy for us and part of that is dramatically reducing our waste
And so not only do we want to do that internally but we want to make that available and share stories and information to our guests about how they can reduce their waste consumption. And again, to create a more sustainable environment and lifestyle for all of us.
Juravich: This might be a random question, but we spend a lot of time on this show talking about AI. How do you see technology shaping and changing a zoo or an aquarium in the future? I mean, have you incorporated AI into anything you're doing at the zoo?
Schmid: We have, we're using it in a lot of different features right now. One of the ones that I'm most excited about is through our animal well-being program. So currently our keepers spend a portion of their day just watching animals, observing behaviors. Are they seeing repetitive behaviors? Are they normal behaviors? Are they abnormal behaviors? But we know that that's just a short glimpse of time, a short window of time that our keepers can do this. And we have thousands and thousands of animals.
So we're in the process now of training an AI model. That's powered by video that we take of all of our animals to be able to understand what is normal behavior, what's abnormal behavior, is this animal under stress? And by increasing the frequency of these video operations and then training these large language models, we're gonna be able to go from having our keepers maybe spend a half an hour or an hour a day watching an animal to animal wellbeing observation and assessment 24 seven. So, this will fundamentally change. Animal well-being, not just at the Columbus Zoo, but in zoos all over the world.
Juravich: Okay, so if you have a camera on the animal all the time, you might as well do something with the information.
Schmid: Absolutely, yeah.
Juravich: Well, we have been talking this hour with the Columbus Zoo and Aquarium President and CEO, Tom Schmid. Thank you so much for your time today.
Schmid: Thanks so much having me, Amy.
Juravich: And you've been listening to All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. If you missed any part of today's show, listen back at www.wosu.org/all sides. Subscribe to our podcast. Every episode is available in our mobile app, and be sure to like All Sides on Facebook. Also follow the show on Instagram. You can see some photos, behind the scenes photos. I'll post a photo later of Tom. That's our Instagram handle is at all sides WOSU. Thanks for joining us today. I'm Amy Juravich on 89.7 NPR News.
