This episode originally aired on April 30, 2026.
Pop-tarts, Cheerios, Eggo waffles, and Starbucks lattes. What do they have in common? They all now have protein versions of the original product.
Walking through a grocery store and ordering at restaurants you can't help but notice protein this and protein that.
But by the time you had the option to order off Chipotle’s high-protein menu, fiber came along.
The risk of colon cancer is increasing in younger ages, and fiber is a key factor. About 95% of American adults and children do not consume the recommended amounts. This has gained attention on social media.
Social media has surfaced terms like protein and fiber “maxxing,” focused on consuming high amounts of these nutrients.
It's true, protein and fiber are both very important. But how much is too much? And how do we know which social media diet trends to trust and which ones are just junk?
Guests:
- Ari Bond, lab operations analyst and human nutrition instructor, Ohio State University
- Candace Pumper, registered dietitian, Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center
- Daiva E. Nielsen, PhD, Canada Research Chair in Ingestive Behavior/associate professor, School of Human Nutrition, McGill University
Transcript
This transcript is generated with AI. To ensure its accuracy, review the audio file.
Amy Juravich: Welcome to All Sides with Amy Juravich. Walking through a grocery store or ordering at a restaurant, you can't help but notice protein this and protein that, protein pop tarts, iced lattes, even candy. How much is too much? And are products like protein candy even remotely healthy?
Ari Bond is a lab operations analyst and human nutrition instructor at The Ohio State University, and was recently featured in the OSU student newspaper, the lantern in an article. Called the protein boom, how the trend is shaping diets at Ohio State. Welcome to All Sides Ari.
Ari Bond: Hi Amy, thanks for having me.
Juravich: So most advertised high protein foods have around 10 to 20 grams of protein in them, right? So what is actually the recommended amount of protein per meal per day for a person.
Bond: That's a great question. Per meal that's kind of hard to answer. Per day that's a little bit easier. We need about 10 to 35 percent of our daily calories to come from protein and that's quite a large range. If you break that down into individual needs that might look like 50 grams per day up to 175 grams per So. There's quite a large range and as long as we're getting somewhere in between that range. Chances are we're meeting our needs.
Juravich: What do you make of this trend that I mentioned where there's protein infused everything? I mean every every store from Chipotle to Bippy Bop to like everything they advertise you know this protein bowl and you can get this protein burrito but then also there's protein pop tarts. Why are we sticking protein in everything?
Bond: That's a great question. I think that if you look at the nutrition trends historically, we tend to get fixated on a single nutrient, thinking that that one nutrient is what's either causing health conditions or will be the key to fixing some of our health conditions. My personal opinion is that if we focus on overall dietary pattern rather than a single nutrients, we'll probably have better outcomes.
Juravich: Now, a long time ago, we got hooked on milk because everyone said you needed more calcium. But then it turns out, you know, from studies and revealing things later on that it was just, it was the dairy industry promoting milk very well with good commercials. But we got on the need for more calcium, more calcium to protect your bones. So what is it, what's big protein? Who is behind this?
Bond: A great question. I don't know who big protein is, I'll be totally honest, but I definitely think that when things become trendy, whether it's milk or low fat or high fiber, now it's high protein. Obviously, food manufacturers have something to gain if they start, you know, adding that to foods because that's what the consumers are looking for. It's kind of a supply and demand type thing. So That's my take on that.
Juravich: I joke about big protein because protein is found in meat and tofu and lentils, right? And so like, is it the soybean industry? Is it the beef cattle industry that, you know, it seems like if the protein has a wide ranging place you can get sources from. So tell me, like what else am I forgetting on this list? Like where can you get protein?
Bond: Oh my gosh. Everything, literally everything has protein. Some foods have higher amounts of protein and they have more essential amino acids in them, so we classify them as complete sources. That would be like chicken, meat, dairy, eggs, those are all complete proteins.
Fruits and vegetables also have protein, but usually in lower amounts, and sometimes they're low in specific essential amino acid, which is why they kind of get a bad rap for protein sources. But again, it is found in literally every single food item. It's just the abundance might vary.
Juravich: So if it's found in every food item, do we need the protein shakes and the protein supplements as well? Because for years before we started infusing protein in, you know, our Pop Tarts, the protein shakes in supplements were the way we were increasing it. Are the protein shake and supplements any good?
Bond: Yeah, great question. I think that it's important to first of all, look at our protein intake, right? Like that's where we have to start. What are we currently consuming? Does it fall within that recommended range? And if it's below, then what are good sources for us to increase our protein and take?
If you look at consumption data trends, we're actually doing pretty good with our protein in take. The 2020 dietary guidelines did a great job breaking down consumption trends by food group. And protein and grains, we're doing fantastic in. It's the fruits and the vegetables and the dairy that we tend to be a little bit lower in.
It's a personal thing. Obviously you won't know if you're meeting your goals if you don't track your eating patterns. So I would say first, track your eatin and see where you fall in that range, and then identify really good sources of protein.
Juravich: It does seem like otherwise unhealthy brands of food are hopping on this protein bandwagon. I mentioned earlier protein candy. I even saw protein Doritos. Can that possibly at all be healthy?
Bond: Can that be healthy? Oh boy. Personally, that's not what I would reach for. I would reach for other natural protein sources and the reason why is because when we fortify foods with a single nutrient, whether it's protein or fiber or any other single nutrient that's what the focus is and we're removing all of those other micronutrients that are found naturally in whole food sources.
So. If I had to choose between getting my protein from Doritos or a cup of milk or a couple of black beans, I'm gonna choose the whole food sources because they're also providing iron, fiber, vitamins, minerals, stuff like that.
Juravich: All right, but if you're gonna eat the Doritos anyway, is it better to grab the bag of protein Doritos rather than the original?
Bond: I mean, there really isn't much. I looked at some of the nutrition facts. There isn't much of a difference between any of the other nutrients. The only thing that stands out really is the protein content. And again, we don't need more protein on average because the average American is actually meeting your protein needs.
So I guess my next point would be look at the cost of those foods. Protein fortified products tend to cost more per serving than their non-protein fortify counterpart. So personally, I would choose the non- protein fortified food Because. It's cheaper and it's really not doing. Much for my overall nutrition.
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about the rise in protein-enriched foods with Ohio State Lab Operations Analyst and human nutrition instructor Ari Bond. Protein snacks reached $24 billion in sales and are growing at three times the rate of overall in the snacking category, according to a recent study. Do you think companies are just trying to hop on a trend and capitalize on it?
Bond: I think so, and I think that that's natural. I mean, they're obviously trying to stay afloat and bring in income, but we've seen this trend over and over again throughout the decades. Again, when something becomes trendy, especially in social media, that drives consumer choices, and then the demand is higher, and of course companies are going to jump on that trend and see if they can meet what the consumers are asking for.
Juravich: Well, social media has been a catalyst for this protein boom. Gen Z and millennials get videos all the time telling them to increase their protein intake. And Gen Z millennials are making up most of that number I said, the people who are buying protein snacks are Gen Z millennial. Do you think that the information out there about protein online that these influencers are putting in their videos, is it accurate?
Bond: I would have to see those particular videos to see if it's accurate or not. I think that the most reputable sources are going to be registered dietitians. And instead of relying on an influencer, I would look for a registered dietician that I could meet with and ask specific questions about my own eating pattern.
Juravich: When I think of who high protein diets are catered toward, in the past, I would have thought mostly men and men who work out a lot. Is that a past trend or is that where the protein shakes come from, that protein for men who spend a lot of time in the gym?
Bond: I would agree that historically that men were probably the target audience. And again, if you look at those consumption trends, men tend to exceed their protein recommended intake each day. Women tend to be on the lower end of the range, but they're still meeting that goal. I do think that that might be shifting slightly, but I don't have evidence to back that up. But I do see that there's more of a shared consumer environment between men and days.
Juravich: Alright, well I agree with you in the shift toward pushing protein on women, because lately my social media feed has been insisting that women need more protein, and I know it's showing me it because I'm a woman, but it's so much so that it's getting ridiculous. Here is mom influencer Caitlin Murray talking about the mixed messages women are getting on social media.
Speaker 4: Hey ladies, have you been struggling to lose belly fat? Guess what? You've ruined your metabolism by not eating enough. You're not getting enough protein, okay? You're gonna need to take grams of protein and multiply it by the number of stars in the sky, and that's how much protein you're gonna need in a day in order to lose weight, but you're also gonna need to stay in a caloric deficit in order to lose weigh, idiot.
But you also have to live your life, okay, and memory is not macros. No more cardio, okay. You need to start lifting weights, heavy weights. At least three to four times a week. And you also need to get 10,000 steps a day, which sounds a lot like cardio, but we don't call it that anymore. Okay, get with the times.
Juravich: All right, so obviously her sarcastic tone is intentional there in that video, but what do you make of that? Like, take the protein that you eat and multiply it by the number of stars in the sky and that's how much you need, ladies. Go for it. What do we do with that?
Bond: Yeah, yeah. Again, I would recommend meeting with a dietician because a dieticians will help you analyze your current eating pattern. And from my experience, when people do that, they recognize where they're getting protein from they're Getting it in their salads in their milk in their cereal, you know, it's everywhere. So I think that people are pretty surprised when they see how much protein they're actually consuming. So that's that's where I would go.
Juravich: And the rise in protein kinda came around the same time as GLP-1 medications became popular. Do you think they're intertwined? Cause there's all the ads for GLP ones also warn you to watch your protein intake.
Bond: Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know a ton about GLP ones, but what I do know is that there tends to be some muscle loss when you are losing weight quite rapidly. And so in order to reduce that muscle loss, if you increase your protein intake, coupled with exercise, you might be able to retain some of that a little more.
But the key here is coupled with the exercise. Simply eating more protein does not increase your muscle synthesis. It can be stored as fat if you're not exercising and moving your body.
Juravich: Is there a risk of eating too much protein? Can someone take it too far? Is that something we should worry about?
Bond: Um, if you're eating more calories than your body needs and that's coming from protein sources, then yes, it's going to be stored as fat, right? Our body only needs what it needs, and if we consume in excess, it is going to go somewhere else. So that would be the biggest risk.
The other risk is when you increase your protein intake, it will naturally decrease some of these other food groups like fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes. And so we're missing out on some of those nutrients found in those food groups when we over-consume in protein.
Juravich: Do you think this wave will die down? Like, you know, the way the Got Milk campaign went away eventually, are we gonna forget about protein in a few years?
Bond: I mean, we definitely go through trends, right? Low fat was trending for a while and now it's high fat keto, right. So I definitely think that it will go through a cycle. I just don't know when.
Juravich: Yeah, well, if we could predict the future, yeah. But I just wanted to end on, you mentioned tracking what you eat so you know how much protein intake you have and keeping track of those types of things. Can you give recommendations for our listeners of like, what are they looking for? So if they're eating something, they look at the label, like what do they need to write down? Tell us how to track it.
Bond: That's a great question. There are some free applications that you can use like MyFitnessPal or Chronometer. What I would recommend doing is track for a few days and track different days of the week. Your weekend eating is very different than your Wednesday eating, right?
So track a few and see what your intake is on average overall. You don't necessarily need a certain amount at every single meal. Having a little bit at every meal is helpful with our metabolism. But if you look at overall trends... That's what's most important.
Juravich: We've been talking about the rise in protein-enriched foods with Ohio State lab operations analyst and human nutrition instructor Ari Bond. Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you. And coming up, we're going to talk to a registered dietician about fiber. That's the next trend. That's when All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.
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Juravich: You're listening to All Sides, I'm your host Amy Juravich.
High protein variations of our favorite foods have been taking over the shelves, but the trends are already changing. The new nutrient that social media is reminding us about now is fiber. 95% of Americans don't eat the daily recommended amount of fiber. This increases your risk for a variety of gut-related illnesses, including colon cancer.
The internet has brought this to our attention with the term fiber maxing. To join us now to educate us on fiber intake, we have registered dietician, Candace Pumper, from the Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center. Welcome to All Sides, Candace. Thanks for having me. I mean, it's nice to be here. All right, so what is the recommended amount of fiber we should be consuming daily? Is there a number per day?
Pumper: Yes, most adults need 25 to 35 grams of fiber per day. And that depends on age and sex, but only average about 15.
Juravich: Okay, so we're getting way less than we actually need. But so if we're not reaching the needs, why do you think that is? We're not, what are we not eating that maybe people used to? Yes.
Pumper: So that gap isn't about personal choice. It does reflect the broader systems that shape how we eat. Our diets have essentially shifted more toward refined convenience foods and much of that processing reduces or removes the natural fiber.
And while I think that there has been that increased interest in gut health as well as digestive wellness, there's also the reality that not everyone understands fiber's role in health and combine that with the social and environmental factors that influence access and affordability. And you end up with a population level problem.
Juravich: Okay, so tell me what are some fiber, like high fiber foods? Like where do we get our fiber from? Yes, it'll all come from plant sources.
Pumper: So generally speaking, fiber is a type of carb that your body can't break down. And it is grouped into two main types based on how it behaves in water. Soluble fiber, this dissolves in water and helps the gut environment as well as helps manage blood sugar, cholesterol, and appetite. It'll show up in oats, oat bran, barley, beans, peas, and some fruits and vegetables.
Insoluble fiber doesn't dissolve in water. This is gonna add bulk and weight to your stools, which is gonna support bowel frequency as well as consistency. And this is gonna come from whole wheat bread, brown rice, bulgur, wheat bran, leafy greens, and cruciferous vegetables, as well root vegetables when you leave the skin on.
And beyond those two types of fibers, another group that matters is prebiotic fibers, which includes the resistant starch. And these selectively are going to feed a good gut bacteria in your gut. And you'll find them in onions, garlic, leeks, as well as asparagus, and cooked and cooled potatoes and rice.
Functional fibers, so that would be where the supplements are, so think psyllium husk or methocellulose. Some people are gonna use this when they need a little extra support. These aren't meant to replace food sources, but they can compliment your diet when you need a boost.
Juravich: Okay, you just named a lot of different types of fiber there, right? And based on your examples, I'm definitely not eating enough fiber. All right, duly noted. But do we need all of the different types? So do I need to be eating leafy greens and onions and I need to eat oats and, right, do we need all the types of fibers?
Pumper: Different types of fiber are gonna handle different jobs in our body and no single type is gonna do it all. So you'll get far more benefit when you pull from a mix of the plant foods and fiber types instead of just leaning on just one. And that's why nutrition research as well as the dietary guidelines emphasize total intake and variety. Ultimately the fiber works best in diversity.
Juravich: The trend I'm seeing now is everyone's talking about protein and now we're transitioning and we're talking about fiber. So in the last part of the show, we just talked about how there's videos on social media telling you you're not having enough protein, you need to do better, get more protein. But are we transitioning? Because now I'm just starting to see the fiber videos. So are we transition into people realizing now we need more fiber or do we need both?
Pumper: I think so. And then with that fiber maxing trend, which I think started last summer. I don't know if you aren't familiar with it, but it
Juravich: Well, yeah, define fiber maxing for me because I can you can guess based on the name, but what is fiber max?
Pumper: So it's meant to intentionally increase your daily fiber to meet or slightly exceed what's recommended. It's not inherently harmful, but increasing fiber too quickly or consuming too much at once can cause digestive discomfort.
So the safest way to increase fiber is to do so gradually over a few weeks, increasing by about two to three grams every few days, and drink plenty of water throughout the day so your gut has time to adjust because fiber needs fluids to work effectively. And instead of loading it all at once, spreading moderate amounts across your meals and snacks, which some are now calling fiber layering, tends to work much better.
Juravich: Oh, fiber layering. So we have a new thing instead of fiber maxing, we're fiber laboring, layering. See, I'm saying laboring because this is all so hard. There are so many, there are high fiber bars and snacks coming into the market too. I mean, just the same way we're having protein infused everything. Now we're seeing labels that say, you know, this is a high fiber bar. Is that a good way to help get your recommended intake by adding these high fiber bars to your diet?
Pumper: More so to supplement. Trying to still pull from whole food sources is going to be more ideal because in addition you'll get those vitamins and minerals that maybe that type of bar would not provide otherwise for the diet.
Juravich: Well, what about the fiber supplements that we know, you know, Metamucil, Benafiber, especially when you have stomach problems, like if you're having a bad week, you take that. Is that something that we should maybe be taking daily if we're not eating the right things?
Pumper: I would say yes. Yeah, especially if maybe you are struggling a little bit with the whole food sources. But ultimately, if we're able to shift back to more of those whole foods, because they're really those supplements aren't meant to replace necessarily, but they could definitely complement your diet.
Juravich: Okay, so what are the risks associated with not eating enough fiber? I mentioned in the introduction that there is an increase in colon cancer, especially among younger people. Talk to me about what your body needs for fiber and what happens when you don't have enough of it, you know, on a big picture scale.
Pumper: So, definitely the first place you'll feel it when you do have a low-fiber diet is going to be in your digestion. It will lead to bloating, constipation, as well as discomfort. It can also create dense, compact waste that doesn't sweep the colon clean the way that it should.
And as that waste moves along, it does get drier and harder, building pressure inside the colon. And over time, makes diverticulosis more likely, but definitely beyond digestion. It can throw your blood sugar and cholesterol out of balance.
And then with respect to colorectal cancer, when we don't get enough fiber from those plant sources, the colon will miss out on those protective benefits, especially with the fermentation in the gut from those short chain fatty acids, which are those compounds essentially that help keep the colon clean.
Juravich: Do we know, I mean, there's research being done right now about why we're seeing so many more young people being diagnosed with colon cancer, and I don't think we have fully figured it out yet, but is fiber maybe a part of it, a lack of fiber in a young person's diet?
Pumper: Yes, it definitely can be part of what's driving that trend.
Juravich: Okay. And another risk with not having enough fiber is known as IBS, irritable bowel syndrome or irritable, bowel disease. So is that, is that what you mean whenever you say stump, like, um, what did you call it? Ingestion discomfort? Is that IBS or is that different?
Pumper: There's a difference with that compared to the like inflammatory bowel disease. So that's where the Crohn's and colitis come into the picture. But when we think about just like overall digestion, that's where, when I talked about, it could lead to that constipation, the bloating or just overall discomfort.
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about fiber intake with registered dietician at the Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center, Candace Pumper. Let's swing back to that term fiber maxing. So in theory, since we aren't getting enough fiber, fiber max is probably a good thing. We probably all need to have more fiber. But you did mention there are some risks. Can you tell me about the risks with fiber max?
Pumper: Yes, so although there isn't any formal limit or upper lipid, I'm sorry, to fiber, once you hit the 50 to 70 gram of a day range, side effects do become more likely, though everyone's tolerance does vary.
At very high intakes, fiber can make it harder for your body to absorb minerals like calcium, iron, and zinc. And in rare cases, especially if fluids are low. Or fiber foods aren't chewed well enough to help break down and reduce that strain on your stomach, it can lead to a bowel obstruction or essentially a blockage.
Juravich: Do you, I mentioned earlier that this rise in the call to eat more protein kind of came hand in hand with the rise of GLP-1 medications. I feel like the same thing is happening with fiber. There's warnings for people who take GLP1 medications in the commercials saying to, you know, that it could cause constipation and that kind of thing. And so do you think this rise in fiber is related to that trend as well?
Pumper: Possible.
Juravich: So, tell me more about if someone is on a GLP-1, do they need to take extra fiber?
Pumper: They wouldn't necessarily need to take extra fiber. We're still trying to have them target the recommendation of that 25 to 35 gram range. We just have to think about what are gonna be easy ways to add fiber into their like day-to-day eating plan.
Juravich: Okay, so you're saying that we need 25 to 35 grams of fiber a day, is that right? Okay, how do we know whether we're getting that or not? We need to read labels, all of our food doesn't have a clear label, so tell me about how do track it? Yes.
Pumper: Reading labels can be an option, but sometimes really the easiest way is to just add it to foods you already enjoy. So for example, maybe adding berries to your oatmeal, cereal, or even yogurt. In addition, you could also do nuts with that.
Building grain bowls or salads with brown rice, quinoa, barley, or farro. You could also upgrade from subtle ways. So ingredient changes, for example. And that could be bean spreads instead of mayo to first spread on a sandwich. I will say also the peel on fruits and vegetables, that's gonna be the richest source of fiber. So sometimes just an easy way to increase that fiber is to eat with the skin on.
Juravich: Oh, so tell your kids to eat the whole apple, not just don't peel it. Okay, what? So what about we talked about younger people having problems with fiber intake and this increase in colon cancer. I mean, is it is it everyone though, like our kids eating enough fiber, older people, like who is it? Everyone who's not eating enough.
Pumper: Well, with the data being that 95% of Americans don't eat fiber, I would say it's- Pretty much everyone. Yes, of all that. Maybe focusing more on the adults versus the pediatrics as I'm not sure if there are data to say kind of where their numbers are at.
But looking at some of the research with the colorectal cancer, the latest data, at least from the American Cancer Society. They had mentioned that the colorectal cancer is now that leading cause of death for Americans under 50, and then the second most cause of cancer death for adults nationwide.
Juravich: So do you think social media has heightened any misinformation about fiber intake? I don't know. Have you seen any videos that maybe you you've watched it and you're like, Oh, that's not quite true. Like are people promoting this incorrectly?
Pumper: Not that I have seen offhand. OK.
Juravich: Okay, well what would be misinformation about fiber intake? Or you're saying that like maybe fiber maxing don't do too much or like what do we need to be aware of whenever we're seeing people telling us to have more fiber? Like what cautions would you give?
Pumper: Definitely not to consume too much at a time and then just encouraging to spread it out over the course of the day. So there isn't any firm official recommendation on how much fiber to eat on a per meal basis, but a practical guideline to aim for is between five, maybe to 10, give or take 12 grams for each eating occasion, but then adjusting based on your own tolerance as well as how often that you eat throughout the course the day
Juravich: And do you know if we like is it does our body tell us when we don't have enough fiber? Like if you're having problems in the bathroom, basically, is that your body saying I need more fiber?
Pumper: Yes, so the constipation, the bloating, again, the discomfort can also happen.
Juravich: You also mentioned in an article you wrote that anxiety comes with trying to track your nutrient intake. Can I, because I talked a little bit about that before. I was asking how to track protein because it's just, it seems like overwhelming to like write down every meal. So tell me more about like anxiety with nutrient tracking.
Pumper: Yeah, it can definitely become a problem if you do obsessively track if that's kind of you get so lost into just feeling anxious about not getting enough fiber. So in those situations, maybe tracking isn't going to be the best course of action for you.
So that's where it kind of goes back to let's just focus on what can we do to add already to your existing meals and it's just, again, a more easier approach, very subtle. And then if you're constantly worrying about the quality of fiber in foods, I mean, that's also a concern as well.
Juravich: Recommend tracking though? Our last guest said maybe you could pick like a Wednesday and a Saturday for a few weeks and track and that would just give you a good average of what you do.
Pumper: If you find this to be beneficial, I would encourage it. But in working with my patients, I do try to find alternative approaches to go about tracking. Try to give them some guidance, those parameters to work with, and then I'll translate to what that could look like for foods and piecing it together to help support that meal planning and at least to simplify it as well.
Juravich: You also said that maybe it should just be called fiber meeting, and you maybe wish it wasn't called fiber maxing. Can you tell me why that's an important distinction?
Pumper: Yeah, because I think when we put so much focus on going above and beyond, I think we kind of lose sight of just getting what you need is going to be more ideal for your health and pushing beyond those boundaries because our bodies, they do work best when we do have more balance as well as gradual approaches rather than those extreme approaches.
Juravich: Okay, and would you, just as a final thought overall, would you wish that more people would just get their fiber from the foods rather than these supplements? But the supplements can help if you're having trouble, right?
Pumper: Yes. Yeah. So try to definitely lean more towards the whole foods or plant sources, because you will get more health benefits from that. And then if you do need that extra support, that's where supplements can be helpful as well.
Juravich: And just since you are a registered dietician and I have you here, we've been spending all this time talking about fiber, but we started this show and we kind of came up with doing this show because there's protein in everything, right? So there's, protein infused lattes at the coffee shop. There's protein pop tarts. There's, there's in Doritos. Do you think that are people not getting enough protein in your experience, your patients? But maybe those aren't the ways to get it. Yeah.
Pumper: Yes. There are patients who I work with who are struggling a little bit getting their protein needs met. A lot of it's just kind of working again with them just as fiber of how can we just add it to existing meals.
I mean, number one, to identifying what might be the better sources to work with leading towards the whole foods. And if we do need to think about supplements of things, drinks, powders, as... Just like the fiber, it's more to complement your diet if you are struggling to meet those needs through the whole food sources.
Juravich: When does a person need to like handle it on their own? And when do they know they need that next step or they need help from someone like you? If they're having trouble figuring out how to track it, or if they're just really not sure, is that when they come to you?
Pumper: Yes, and if they're kind of in a situation where they don't know how to just build that into their day to day or if they feel like they're constantly falling short or especially with the GLP ones, definitely connecting with a dietitian I think is going to be ideal.
Juravich: We've been talking about fiber intake with registered dietician from Ohio State University's Wexner Medical Center, Candace Pumper. Thank you so much for your time today, Candace. Thank you. And coming up, we're gonna talk about what diet trends to believe and which ones are maybe just junk. That's when All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.
You're listening to All Sides, I'm your host, Amy Juravich. Social media has influenced our diet for decades. From all sorts of fad diets to the rise in protein, influencers are constantly sharing their tips on how we can improve our diets. However, nutrition misinformation is spreading faster than ever.
That's according to Daiva Nielsen, Canada research chair in ingestive behavior. She's also an associate professor at the School of Human Nutrition at Miguel University in Montreal. And she joins us today to teach us about the ways we can spot a diet that we can trust versus the tips that we hear that are just junk. Welcome to All Sides, Daiva.
Daiva E. Nielsen, PhD: Hi, thanks for having me.
Juravich: So we just spoke to two experts. We talked about protein, we talked about fiber, and how social media trends are influencing, telling us all we need more protein, we need fiber. Can you tell us how you've heard about those diet trends and where they come from, why they're so prevalent, why is everyone telling us about protein and fiber now?
Nielsen: Yeah, so obviously food is a big part of our lives. We eat every day, it's very enjoyable, but we know that what we eat is very strongly connected to our health. So people want to be healthy and people want enjoy what they eat and that's completely possible, but we have so much variety in the food supply and a lot of tempting options.
So it's a challenge to kind of maintain a healthy dietary pattern in the modern food environment. And I think that people look for really quick fixes, silver bullets, magic touches. And so protein has been an interesting topic. We do know scientifically that protein really helps us manage our appetites.
It helps us feel fuller for longer, but it doesn't mean that you need to have this overwhelming amount of protein in your diet every day. And in fact, that could actually have some harms. So... Moderation is always the best approach, really, but social media gives a channel for people who really believe something that's not true, really like a fad, and this information can spread really quickly, and it's not a regulated space, and you can get followers very quickly.
Influencers can have, obviously, a huge influence on people and their food choices. I think that the space of social media enables rapid transmission of information that is not always grounded in scientific evidence. And people will find it attractive and want to believe it because they're looking for something simple. So I hope that answers a little bit of your question on that. Did you want me to go a bit deeper into protein specifically?
Juravich: Yeah, you can. Tell me about how proteins as a trend has been increasing and maybe some misinformation examples that you've heard.
Nielsen: Yeah, yeah. Well, people just really think that the more protein, the better have more have more as high as you can. And I mean, to be honest, that's expensive protein is one of the more expensive macronutrients in the diet. And a lot of the protein that people are using are in the form of supplements, right? Powders.
Collagen is a very trendy one right now. The thing on collagen is it's really Not. Grounded in scientific evidence, right? There's not a lot of concrete information suggesting that there's actually measurable benefits from consuming collagen supplements.
So especially on thinking about body composition and muscle, collagen is actually one of the least effective proteins because it doesn't have the combinations of essential amino acids that you need to aid in muscle repair and muscle growth.
If people are thinking about collagen is something they can use to. Increase their muscle mass or have more strength. It's not the right source of protein for that purpose. So again, people are looking for something simple, something quick, but I think in a lot of cases with a lot extra protein, it's not having those desirable effects that people might think it's having. And it could just be extra money, right? Costing extra finances.
Juravich: We were kind of joking earlier, saying that just when we figured out our protein, now we're being told that we don't have enough fiber, right? But it's not a joke because there's a lot of, a lot more younger people getting colon cancer than ever before, and studies are showing that it could be related to fiber intake and not good digestive health. So do you see social media trends helping in that respect? I mean, if the next thing to come is telling us you need more fiber in your diet. That could help people, right?
Nielsen: Good. And again, you just have to be careful that the message is accurate. So again, fiber, yes, is a very important component of the diet. And if you're meeting the fiber recommendations, then that's great. But going too much is not really going to add any extra benefit, right?
In fact, it would probably have more uncomfortable digestive side effects. So that's what I mean, that people tend to take things to the max. And I think that's kind of the social media hashtag that's been floating around is fiber maxing.
And so people, some people take that too literally and really try to increase as much as possible, which is not hard to do in the age of supplements. But if you're going over the recommendation of fiber, you're probably not doing yourself any benefit.
So it is true that there is a problem in the population with fiber intakes that are too low. And so that's a positive thing of raising awareness on that and trying to get people to be mindful that they're reading the recommendation for fiber.
But that's the part that I'd like to see communicated, right? That people don't need to be overdoing it, it doesn't need be over the recommendation, but meeting the recommendation. So it's about 14 grams of fiber per thousand calories in the diet. So if you're consuming that typical 2000 calories per day, it's a bout 28 grams of fibers, which if you are consuming whole grain choices, right, brown rice, whole grain breads, enough fruits and vegetables, right.
You want your five to 10 servings. You will be able to get that 14 grams per thousand kilocal. So you don't need to take a fiber supplement necessarily.
Juravich: Well, yeah, our registered dietitian guest said that she would rather the term be called fiber meeting than fiber maxing. But that probably won't become a hashtag on social media, I would guess. Okay. But also, I feel like tracking things like protein and fiber also is difficult. Because it's not, you know, if you're eating oats and legumes and you're eating beans, it's like you have a label right there telling you how much fiber is in these, right?
Nielsen: Well, if you have the actual product packaging, you would, but if somebody else is preparing the food, but I think that's where nutrition education is very important, that if we're spending some time like educating people, and I do strongly believe we should be educating our kids more, right? In elementary school and high school so that people kind of grow up having more awareness of what is a healthy diet and how do I achieve my nutritional goals on a day-to-day basis.
Um, but right now, you know, we are dealing with kind of population issues across different age groups. Um, so even encouraging adults and older adults to, um, to be mindful of dietary recommendations. And that's where social media could be quite useful. Um, and I think a lot of our organizations in the nutrition space are trying to use social media to communicate to the public.
Um, So how do we get that to be more appealing to people than an influencer? That's kind of the golden question right now. But in the States, a good example is eatright.org has some very nice YouTube channels, Instagram, Blue Sky, X, all these social media platforms from a very credible source of information.
It's the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that oversees eatright .org. So this information is available. It's online. There's social media platform, but making the public aware that this is a, a better source to turn to than just some person who's promoting something. So I think getting the public to be more aware of credible sources of information online is very important.
Juravich: So we need the algorithm to show us eatright.org instead of some of these influencers. This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about social media diet trends with ingestive behavior professor and researcher Daiva Nielsen. So can you tell me some other social media trend diets that concern you? In an article that you wrote a while ago, You mentioned the carnivore diet as one of them?
Nielsen: Yes, and that I'm glad you brought that one up because it's the opposite of the fiber maxing. So I prefer the fiber trend over the carnivore trend, quite honestly. But again, just meeting fiber, not necessarily overdoing it. But the carnival diet is really this belief that you need an all animal based diet, and in that philosophy, you have no fiber, right? There's there's none.
And then you have all the protein. All the protein and no fiber, that's not gonna get you far. So these extreme dietary trends that like focus on very limited foods and they're completely excluding healthful food groups, they are concerning and they can be harmful.
And people need to be mindful that just because somebody is promoting this online doesn't mean that they actually follow it every day. You don't really know what that person is eating despite what they're saying. And who knows how long this is something that they are trying to stick to.
So, I mean, maybe there are some medical situations where people do better on a more meat-based diet. I have heard anecdotally from people who have kind of irritable bowel syndrome or other gastrointestinal concerns that fiber does irritate them, right? And so they need to have some modifications.
But I don't believe in having a very limited diet that's restricting so many healthful foods. For individuals who are managing IBS or other kinds of gastro related conditions, I really encourage them to work with a healthcare professional to find the kind of dietary pattern that is more appropriate for them. And so working with your primary care physician and hopefully getting a referral to a dietician, they would be the best source of information. For those cases.
Juravich: In your article, you also argue that food can become a part of someone's identity. Can you explain that more? Because I feel like which diet you follow becomes a part your identity too.
Nielsen: Yeah, it does. And that's been something I've seen increasingly, and I'm not against people feeling like they have a food identity. I think that can be a very fulfilling aspect of someone's life.
So for example, I have a number of people in my circle that have a plant based diet, and they're very proud of that. And they they promote that because they believe strongly in the sustainability benefits and the health benefits.
But it's an interesting observation that food has that kind of power to become like part of someone's identity. And then what we see online is some of these influencers who feel very strongly about a fad are just very defensive of that. And it kind of incites these very heated exchanges I see online where if someone really believes that something like the carnivore diet or I've seen the opposite of like completely fruit-based diets like fruitarian and they believe that you know, only consuming fruits is the best thing for you.
So I see a lot of these extreme, very restrictive diets and some of these online characters are so defensive of that. And when you read the comments and the exchanges, you see like almost like wars going on. From a social perspective, I find it interesting that food can incite so much emotion and passion from people. But I hope that there can be some awareness on anyone who's kind of being exposed to a very restrictive non-evidence-based diet, right? That you need to be critical in thinking about the credibility of this kind of a promotion.
Juravich: Well, and you also write, you know, the same, the statement was in your piece. You write, criticism of the diet can feel like criticism of self. So how can we avoid this? Because if you believe that keto is helping you and that becomes your identity and then someone else says, no, that doesn't work, then it feels like you're criticizing not your food choices, but yourself.
Nielsen: Yeah, exactly. And that's a tricky one, you know, I think that gets into a little bit of psychology and what my student and I that piece was written by one of my doctoral students and I we looked at the literature on why people become so entrenched in a belief about a diet.
There are some links to personality, there's some links to kind of being more likely to believe in kind of conspiracy ideations. Mistrusting of more publicly available information. So I think there's some shared characteristics amongst individuals who might become very, very defensive of a certain dietary belief.
And so that's a little bit sensitive, right? It's part of somebody's character. It's a part of their personality. And in those scenarios, I don't know how much really we can, we can modify someone's beliefs, right? I think in those scenario, people are gonna believe what they believe and they will evolve their thinking maybe over the course of their personal experiences.
So I think we have to be mindful of that. But, you know, I think online. Trying to shift the general public to more credible sources of diet information is really a good strategy to try.
Juravich: Overall, what advice would you give people if they're trying to self-diagnose themselves and make changes to their diet? They see these videos and they're like, oh, what's wrong with me? It must be protein. Oh, what wrong with it? It must fiber. What advice do you have in that aspect?
Nielsen: So again, the very restrictive diets are a red flag. Like that is not evidence-based and it would not be something that I would recommend. So we have dietary reference intakes.
And again, I'm pointing to the credible sources of information, but our dietary reference intake, when you think about it, how a diet is shaped based on, I gonna focus on macronutrients, carbohydrates, protein and fats. We have macronutrient distribution ranges in those recommendations. So you have a lot of flexibility, right?
You can go from a lower carb to a higher protein or a higher fat, lower carb, or you can have higher carb if you think that's better for you. So there's a lot flexibility actually in how a healthy diet could look. So I think that people are fine to test things out and see what works for them, but having that education on what's recommended from a public health. Perspective that has scientific evidence behind it.
And so people can absolutely experiment with a range of different macronutrient distributions in the diet and stay within a healthy range. But I think that being mindful of evidence-based information and trying to have a dietician or a healthcare professional involved would be really helpful just to make sure that they're meeting their nutritional needs first and foremost. And they're not overdoing it by having too much of a restrictive pattern.
Juravich: Okay, we only have 30 seconds left, but besides EatRight.org, what else should I be following to fix my algorithm?
Nielsen: Well, there's the dietary guidelines for Americans, and that's really meant to be the public facing information. I still like MyPlate. The dietary guidelines were updated now back to kind of a pyramid. But we still have the MyPlace, which was in place for many years before. And I think MyPplace is just a little simpler for people to comprehend and know what proportions to put on their plates. So the DGA, the dietary Guidelines for Americans are another good source. And so, we hope.
Juravich: Yeah, we've been talking about social media diet trends with ingested behavior professor and researcher Daiva E. Nielsen, PhD. Thank you so much for your time today.
Nielsen: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Juravich: You've been listening to you All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. I'm Amy Juravich, thanks for joining us.