While Columbus, Cleveland and Cincinnati are Ohio’s major metropolitan areas, the state has many smaller cities and rural communities.
The members of the bipartisan Ohio Mayors Alliance hope the old cliche about a rising tide raising all boats rings true.
Dozens of Ohio mayors are asking state lawmakers to refocus on the state’s core cities to help pay for municipal needs, including first-responder salaries and city redevelopment grants.
Every city has different plans and priorities, but they all want to unite in a call for increased investment from the state.
Coming up on this hour of All Sides, we’re talking about the Ohio Mayors Alliance’s core cities strategy and how it could strengthen Ohio.
Guests:
- Keary McCarthy, executive director, Ohio Mayor Alliance
- Joe Begeny, mayor of Reynoldsburg
- Christina Muryn, mayor of Findlay
Transcript
This transcript is generated with AI. To ensure its accuracy, review the audio file.
Amy Juravich: Welcome to All Sides with Amy Juravich. Ohio, like every state, is comprised of major metropolitan areas, also smaller cities, and rural areas. Every area faces challenges regarding housing, infrastructure, federal and state funding, and more. Mayors from across the Buckeye state are working together on a four-part policy agenda focused on strengthening the state by investing in its core cities. The mayor's hope to work with state lawmakers and Ohio's next governor on implementing their plan. We're talking about the Ohio Mayor's Alliance core city's strategy this hour. And we begin our conversation with Keary McCarthy, executive director of the Ohio mayor's alliance. Welcome to All Sides Keary. Thanks.
Keary McCarthy: Amy, great to be here.
Juravich: All right, so let's start off by having you explain why the Mayor's Alliance was created. Like, what is it? What's the goal of the Ohio Mayor's alliance?
McCarthy: Well, thanks so much. Yeah, we came together actually 10 years ago this month was our founding meeting. Thank you. And we came together really because, you know, there had been some significant impacts to local governments in the preceding years. Not the least of which was the cut of the local government fund, which had significant impacts not just on cities, but counties, townships and all local governments. And I think the mayors were trying to figure out a better way to make sure that their communities were represented, that their voice was heard. And so we started to talk to mayors 11 years ago as we were preparing to form the Mayor's Alliance about bringing the mayores together in a bipartisan way to help really kind of collectively advocate for their cities and their constituents. We represent the mayor in the 30 largest cities. Ohio's blessed to have a lot of cities in Metro Region.
Juravich: Yeah, Google tells me 253 to be exact. We do. We do, and we have to do it.
McCarthy: We do. We do and we have a lot of larger urban centers and mid-size urban centers. I think mostly because of our industrial past where we've had many, you know, factories sort of dotted, you know, throughout the state that have helped form some of these cities. And, you know, I think there was just a real appetite to try to figure out a better way to help, not just advocate in a bipartisan way for our cities, but also help lawmakers understand and the importance of state and local collaboration. It's really kind of a cornerstone of our success as a state when state leaders and local leaders can work together to solve problems. That's when we all do better. And so I think there was a real, I think need for the mayors to be better engaged at the state house. And there was real, I think once we hit the, once we started, we kind of hit the ground running and we've been running ever since and we got a lot of work to do, but I'm really excited about. You know, the opportunities ahead of us we have. Obviously, we're gonna have a new governor next year and an opportunity to kind of, you know continue to make our case for the importance of Ohio cities and continue to promote the importance of state and local collaboration.
Juravich: Now, with 253 cities, you said you represent what you call the core cities, 30 of them. Is there a population number or do you like the net round number of 30 or is there like a population that's needed to be a core city?
McCarthy: Yeah, when we came together, I think we really wanted to make sure that we had a group that was sort of consensus driven. So we didn't want to make it too big where the issues would start to separate a little bit. As we started to look at the population centers in Ohio, 30 did kind of seem like around the number, but it also gave us good regional and political diversity. It's just the nature of the political sort of disposition in Ohio where Democrats tend to represent the larger cities. Republicans tend to represent more of the medium sized cities and we wanted to make sure there was a good mix of both Republican and Democratic mayors as a part of our coalition and you know we kind of settled on 30 because it was I think a good reflection of that and and also gave us the opportunity to maintain some of that consensus around around the issues that we wanted to advocate for.
Juravich: To give our listeners a sense, like Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati would be the three biggest, and then what would be the three smallest of this 30 core.
McCarthy: Finley, Lima are the two, I think, and, you know, I was just trying to figure out the sizing. So yeah, so it's a pretty big range. I mean, I know we'll have the mayor of Finley on here soon, but I think those cities represent about around 40,000, I think if I'm not mistaken. And so we have a pretty good mix. We also, you know, we have sort of those core cities, which. You know, Mansfield, Springfield, kind of those county seats that are also have a heavy post-industrial past. We have the big three Cs, as you mentioned, Toledo, Akron, Canton, Dayton as well, Youngstown. But then we also have communities like Dublin here in central Ohio and Grove City and Reynoldsburg who we'll have on, which kind of represent the inner ring suburb. So we have a really good mix, I think, of city types, and that I think helps our advocacy efforts as we're trying to represent the interests of Ohio's larger communities.
Juravich: You mentioned that local government funds. The fund was nearly cut in half by 2017. Then Governor John Kasich cut the local government fund starting back, I think in 2011, if I have the years right. And then current Governor Mike DeWine did increase funding for local governments up, but not back to those 2017 levels or the 2011 levels. I'm not sure the years. Do I have that right? Yeah.
McCarthy: Yeah, yeah, I think it was the 2011, 2012 budget, two-year budget cycles, was really when the local government fund was cut in half. And that was about a $300 to $400 million cut in just one biennium, one budget cycle. I think what's less understood about the local government fund is the cumulative impact that that has had on local governments over the last almost 15 years now. You know, we estimate it's probably somewhere between two and a half and three billion dollars in lost revenue to local communities over that span. And so, you know, it's relative to some of the conversations we're having now. Property tax, gas tax. When the state, you now, cuts consistent revenue to local governments, it has a long-term impact and puts more pressure on local governments to rely on local property, local tax sources. So municipalities, it's municipal income tax, school districts and others, it is property tax. So that downward pressure, I don't think is really appreciated, but that's the reality of what happens when state and local governments don't work together, which is in part why we're here.
Juravich: Well, I think the state would say or Governor Kasich would say back then that the cities can tax their citizens themselves. And why should the state be funding cities?
McCarthy: Yeah I think the reason that we want to make sure we have a balanced mix is because we don't want to create so much weight on one tax source. Creating multiple tax sources allows that pressure to sort of be taken out a little bit but if you're relying solely on municipal income tax to fund all the operations of of the city when you know you also create more vulnerability for community. Look. Cities, the biggest thing that we do, the most expensive part of our operating budgets is public safety. And so some cities spend as much as two thirds of their total general revenue fund on public safety, so when there is an impact to one revenue stream, it has an impact directly on that largest service, and probably the most important service that we use. So I think that's in part why we wanna make sure lawmakers understand that. I think it's also why we feel like state and local collaboration is really important, because we can't. Do it all on our own. We need that support from state and local governments and you know we've had some success in some areas but the local government fund has not been one of them.
Juravich: And you mentioned the Ohio Mayor's Alliance is bipartisan. I mean, how does that go in such a politically divided time like this? Are all the mayors in agreement and saying, the state needs to give us more money, no matter who's in charge?
McCarthy: Yeah, I mean, I think that what I appreciate about working with mayors is, excuse me, they're very practical and pragmatic. You know, we joke that there's this line that's sort of repeated within our coalition that, you know, potholes aren't partisan. So the issues that we deal with, public safety, infrastructure, those issues really don't have that sort of ideological bent that some of the issues lawmakers deal with have. And so, you know, we're a consensus-oriented organization. I think everyone in our membership understands the importance of that state and local collaboration and protecting the fiscal health of our cities is essential to all the things that mayors want to be able to do, whether they're Republican or Democratic mayors.
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about how the Ohio Mayor's Alliance is looking to strengthen the state's core cities. And we're talking with Kerry McCarthy, Executive Director of the Ohio Mayors' Alliance. The policy agenda you're putting forward focuses on the core cities, and it has four parts to it. So, but. How can focusing on the core cities, these 30 cities, help reverse the state's declining population growth and boost the economy? Because that's what you're saying. We'll go through the proposals that you're asking. But what you are saying is that these proposals are met. If we boost these core cities the state declining population will reverse. We'll do better.
McCarthy: Well, and that's exactly right. I mean, you know, we have a shared challenge. And that is, you our state is not growing as fast as other states. That's not a new trend. That's a long-term trend. You know, I think the thing that's illustrates that point the most is the fact that we have lost a congressional seat in every decade since 1960. So we had 24 congressional representatives. And obviously, congressional districts are a proportion of the population. And now we're down to 15 and that doesn't it's not just the political the sort of national political standing that We're worried about it's the long-term economic strength of our state That is at stake if we continue down this road And so we're trying to solve a problem that I think people on both sides of the aisle at the state level are trying To think about as well Which is how do we make sure that Ohio maintains its economic strength into the future and we can't do that with declining population trends. And so we believe we have an untapped opportunity and asset in this state, which is our cities. We are one of the few states that has multiple metropolitan regions. Most states around the Midwest and even around the country rely on one mega region to power their economy. Think Chicago and Illinois, think Indianapolis and Indiana, think Detroit and Michigan, think Pennsylvania's got Philly and Pittsburgh, but You know, we have three metropolitan regions with over two million people. We also have three more metropolitan regions, smaller metropolitan regions with over half a million people, Finley, as I'm sure the mayor will tell you, has been the number one micropolitan region in the country for 10 years running. We have- Micropolitan, that's a new word for me, all right. And so we have these assets evenly balanced throughout the state that need some support to help drive regional growth. And support Ohio's statewide economic success. So why we're suggesting this Core Cities Transformation Fund is because we see it not as an opportunity just to support redevelopment efforts in our cities, but to drive population growth in a balanced way across the state. And we think it's past due to have this conversation about the importance of our cities and the role that they play in driving our economic success, and we're looking forward to the conversation.
Juravich: All right, so you just mentioned it. Of your four proposals, your main proposal is calling for more money, basically. And it's called the Ohio Core Cities Transformation Fund. How would it work? It's grant money to cities, it's low interest loans, or no interest loans. Yeah, tell me about this.
McCarthy: Yeah, so before I get to that, I just want to also emphasize the economic strength of our cities and why we view this as not just more money for our cities, but a reinvestment strategy for the state of Ohio. The metropolitan regions that I just mentioned drive 90% of the state's gross domestic product. In the report that we shared, you can see the numbers. The Cincinnati region drives about $2 million in GDP. The two billion dollars in GDP every year. Franklin County, similar. Cleveland, very similar. You can see the economic strength that our metropolitan regions have and our cities drive those metropolitan regions. From a state tax revenue standpoint, it is our cities that really help drive state tax revenues. So the eight largest cities and counties generate over half of the state's tax revenue. The eight largest counties generate more than the other 80 counties combined.
Juravich: So you're you're saying the money that the state has to work with in the general revenue fund is coming from the cities Anyway, right. You want let's reinvest. You let's re invest in the
McCarthy: Right, so let's reinvest in the cities that are driving economic activity in the state and that will not only help the cities but it will help the regions because you can't have a healthy apple without a healthy core. And so these regions that we have around the state, by reinvesting in them and through this redevelopment fund, we're going to drive economic growth not just in central Ohio, which has been blessed with a tremendous amount of growth over the last 10 years, but all throughout the state in a balanced way. And that's why. We don't just see it as asking for more money from the state. We see it a reinvestment strategy that is going to help not just our cities, but the regions and the statewide economy as a whole.
Juravich: Now money is tight How of state how what do state lawmakers say to you? I bet they're just jumping to give you more money, right? Well, I'm
McCarthy: Well, I mean, I think we've been very sensitive to that exact notion, which is, you know, whenever you go to the legislature and ask for money, it's going to mean displacing current GRF expenditures or, you now, figuring out a new tax source to pay for it. We're not asking the legislature to do either. What we're saying is because our cities and counties drive the state's sales tax revenue All we're asking for is the state to earmark 20% of future sales tax growth into this Core Cities Transformation Fund. And so that's where the reinvestment comes into play. We're helping drive the state tax revenue, reinvest a portion of that new growth back into our cities for this Ohio Core Cities transformation.
Juravich: Okay, so that would rely on sales tax growing. So do projections show that sales tax will grow, there will be more money there, so there is more money to work with?
McCarthy: Yeah, we kind of lay that out in the report. We look back at the trends from the previous five or six years, and you can see relative growth throughout those years. We projected it just at a 3% growth rate, which is where we estimate we'll get about $100 million each year through this funding mechanism.
Juravich: Our guest this hour is Keary McCarthy, executive director of the Ohio Mayors Alliance. And coming up, we're gonna be joined by the mayors of two smaller cities to talk about what they'd like to see for their municipalities. That's when All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.
You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. The bipartisan Ohio Mayor's Alliance is working to create a roadmap for the state to invest in Ohio's core cities. Their proposed strategy would consist of four parts designed to address issues in cities and towns in Ohio that they're dealing with on a daily basis. These parts include a fund for revitalization, investment in housing, investment in public safety, and a better partnership between the state and its cities. Still with us today is Keary McCarthy, Executive Director of the Ohio Mayor's Alliance. Thanks for being here, Keary. Thanks. And joining us now is Joe Begeny, Mayor of Reynoldsburg. Welcome to All Sides, Joe. Thanks for having me. And also with us, we have Christina Muryn, Mayor of Findlay. Welcome to All Sides, Christina. Thank you. All right, so Christina and Joe, as mayors, I want you each to just talk briefly about the biggest challenge facing your community. And Joe, we can start with you. What's the biggest challenging facing Reynoldsburg?
Joe Begeny: I think a lot of it is related to infrastructure improvements. Reynoldsburg is a suburban community just east of Columbus. And what we're running into right now is any time that whether it's commercial development or residential development, it's about upgrading the infrastructure, water lines, sewer lines, things that are must haves all the way across. And the rest of it, as you know, municipalities run on income tax. And so it's trying to find those great job creators to bring into our community to help generate the revenue so we can fix that infrastructure.
Juravich: And Christina, what about you? What's the biggest challenge facing Finlay?
Christina Muryn: Yeah, I would agree, you know, the infrastructure component, but probably more specifically is just the cost inflation that we're seeing on all of our projects and everything that we are trying to do as a community as well. So being income tax driven, we're seen growth in our revenue, which is great, but how do we balance continuing to make the investments in our safety services, in our infrastructure, and in strategic investments to grow that revenue base? While inflation is continuing to hit our budget at a faster pace than the revenue growth side.
Juravich: And have either of you had to like talk about the idea of maybe increasing your income tax or anything like that to try to make ends meet? Or are you more hoping that you'll get more money from the state? Joe, what do you think?
Begeny: We haven't had that discussion we have a two and a half percent income tax that was actually increased in 2017 so that's been beneficial so what we're trying to do is grow the economy from a different way with our current existing businesses and making sure that they have the tools and resources to become small businesses to bigger businesses but then also find ways to attract some of those other businesses from outside of state to come into our community.
Juravich: Yeah, Christina, what are you doing to try to increase some money?
Muryn: We're really fortunate. We are the lowest income tax rate in the state of Ohio at 1%. And so certainly stretching every dollar is a key priority. I think our big focus has been leveraging state and local federal dollars as well as continuing to focus on growing existing businesses. That is our lowest cost revenue increase and continuing to attraction retain higher pay in job. But we definitely every day are looking at how do we best utilize and reinvest each dollar that's coming into the city
Juravich: Um, if you have the lowest in the state, I mean, I guess that's something you're going to be proud of or you're not going to tell me that you've been talking about increasing it to, I don't know, 1.5. Yeah.
Muryn: No, so we definitely are really proud and that's something that we're really focused on. It's certainly something that crosses my mind and gives me a lot of anxiety and that something we want to maintain, but long term it's something may have to have happen, but we're really focused on continuing to protect that. Okay.
Juravich: We talked earlier about former Governor John Kasich slashing the local government fund, cutting it in half, basically. Joe, how important are state dollars to a city like yours? Do you know how much money you get from the state off the top of your head?
Begeny: Yeah, it's about nine hundred and change and nine hundred thousand dollars. And it's been pretty consistent since I've been mayor since 2020. So I was not around when we actually had the full local government fund. So when we talked to some of our other mayors in the coalition, you know, they look back more longingly. And I kind of wish what that money would be able to do for our community, because, again, we're looking at safety, which is our biggest expenditure. It's about 52 percent of our budget for our police department. And so any of those funds would be better able to help support that, as well as offering opportunities for everything else that we offer, whether it's parks and recreation, regular maintenance, and then obviously, attracting new businesses.
Juravich: And Christina, what about you? Do you know how much money you get from the state? To the state and local.
Muryn: The local government fund, I believe we received about $700,000, but we worked very hard to also bring down other state grants, and I think, you know, one of the things that obviously the Mayor's Alliance is working on, okay, what are those kind of targeted partnership opportunities, but I think we all would be very open to just, hey, restoring or even increasing that local government fund. I think we have seen that prove very well when we're getting the funding directly to the communities, providing more predictability and giving maximum flexibility to our communities. That's certainly very helpful. And so we'll continue.
Juravich: Need to have the conversation. And Carrie from the Ohio Mayor's Alliance bring you back into the conversation here. One of your proposals in your in your four point plan is you want the state to cover 10% of municipal police and fire payroll costs. Tell me about that. Why that specifically?
McCarthy: Yeah, I mean, as you just heard, public safety and economic development are two areas of common ground where we think there's an opportunity to have some really important conversations with our state lawmaking partners. And I think, you know, I think everyone understands and appreciates the cost impact of public safety, but maybe not everyone appreciates how cities have to pay for it. And so, you I think this fund is is really focused on doing a couple of things. It's. Attracting police officers and high quality professionals in the law enforcement profession. It's training them. Training is critical. It has a cost. And it's retaining them, making sure that we keep high quality law enforcement professionals. And then it's also supporting them along the way. So we have a variety of costs associated with public safety. We see an opportunity with lawmakers who also want to support public safety to Find some common ground and find a way to support better support. Our cities and the law enforcement professionals that our cities employ.
Juravich: Now 10% of public safety for Reynoldsburg and Finley is gonna be different than 10% for Columbus, Cleveland, and Cincinnati, but if you add up all 30 of those cities, 10%, you probably have a number, but where's that money gonna come from?
McCarthy: Yeah, I mean, I think it's about making priorities at the state legislative level. And so reprioritizing the general revenue. Yeah, yeah, I I think that's right. I think. That's right, I mean, there is a there is bipartisan support around public safety and investing in public safety, and I think that we hope that that will be reflected in the next state operating budget.
Juravich: Mayor Byrne, what does Finley need, like does Finlay need help paying for public safety?
Muryn: You know, every dollar is going to be helpful. The reality in Finley, our general fund budget of approximately 40 million, we're spending 60%. So $24 million is going directly to public safety. So police, fire, and our dispatch. In the past couple of years, you know, that there's also been a lot of, we've won increased pay to continue to recruit and retain. But the other thing that we haven't talked about as much is that there has also over the last five years been huge emphasis on adding technology with body cams and dash cams, Which are super important, Finley implemented them and they've provided a lot of benefit in public accountability and transparency. The reality is that also added nearly a million dollars in software expense every year just to be able to maintain those systems. So when the legislature is saying, hey, we need more training, we more accountability, that's great, but that is also adding a lot of expense at the local level. So how do we help offset that when we all recognize we have to have safe communities? For that investment to occur and for us to attract and retain businesses and talent and citizens, but we need that partnership opportunity as well.
Juravich: Well, and Mayor Beggini, what about in Reynoldsburg? Talk to me about your public safety budget.
Begeny: So we only have a police department in Reynoldsburg. We partner with a couple of townships for the fire services, but that's a completely different conversation when it comes to property taxes. What we're looking at is because we're competitive with other communities in central Ohio, we're look at Columbus, Dublin, and others that we're wanting to make sure that financially we're able to compensate and stay on par to keep and retain those officers. But Mayor Mearn makes a great point. The technology, which is phenomenal, between body cams, dash cams. And anything else that we can use to better serve our citizens, that cost continues to go up while the local government fund just is not cutting the bill. We wouldn't even be able to afford a lot of the things that we do, so while we can try and leverage certain grants, that becomes a bigger part of our general fund all the way across, and that's not the best cure for our community.
Juravich: And, um, Carrie, you mentioned earlier that over half of Ohio's state sales tax and income tax revenue comes from just eight of Ohio 88 counties, right? So the eight counties that have these core cities in them are where a lot of the general revenue fund money is coming from. Right. But it. I mean, that's the budget for everything. So, like, how do you mayors feel about their role in funding Ohio's overall budget? I mean, does any of that I guess I'm asking is any of that sales tax money? Stay in the city, or it all goes to the state revenue fund. I need a tax lesson. Yeah, well.
McCarthy: Yeah, well, I mean, there's two components of the sales tax. There's the there's the state share, which is the majority of it. But then the counties have a piggyback on that and they retain a portion of that.
Juravich: And they they retain a portion of that. Can cities do that too or just counties? Okay. All right, continue Yeah, primarily municipal income tax. Yes. Yes
McCarthy: Townships rely on, well, townships rely on property tax. Counties rely on sales tax. School districts rely on property tax, cities rely on municipal income tax. And we all rely on our state partners to help us fill in the gaps where we have them. And that's really, I think, where one of our recommendations is really improving the state and local partnership framework and really just helping lawmakers understand the work that local governments, not just cities, do to deliver critical public services that affect people's lives every day. You know, we've had a lot of rain here in central Ohio. I mean, the infrastructure to make sure that that rain gets to the places it needs to go and stays out of the places that shouldn't be is a monumental task. And those are just some of the things that cities do. We talked about public safety, but really making sure that lawmakers understand as they're thinking about making tax policy decisions. Uh... What the long-term impacts will be on local communities and residents who rely on the services that local governments provide. That's part of why we're saying you know we would like to reset that local partnership framework uh... And we would really like to get back to a more constructive dialog around really how we solve problems how we work together and how we strengthen not just our cities but the state as a whole.
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about how the Ohio Mayors Alliance is looking to strengthen the state's core cities. And we're talking with Kerry McCarthy, Executive Director of the Ohio Mayor's Alliance. We're taking with Reynoldsburg Mayor, Joe Begginy, and Finley Mayor, Christina Mearn. We already talked about the Ohio Core Cities Transformation Fund, which would be grants and zero interest loans for cities to use for redevelopment. But I wanted to get the perspective of the mayors on this fund. Mayor Begney, what would you use this money for if you got a redevelopment grant? What would you do with it?
Begeny: Oh the dreams are just going off crazy right now. I think the biggest thing for this would be to take areas that have a lot of difficulties for redevelopment purposes where developers are looking at something and they'd be like, yeah, I'd like to do this, but there's obstacles. There could be existing buildings. There could an area of town where that doesn't have the best infrastructure. And grants like this would actually take kind of a dream project and actually give it a little bit of teeth for reality to bring into a community, whether that's housing or whether that is commercial. And that's what this needs to happen because we want to work with our developers. We know that they're looking for the best deal that they possibly can get. And there's certain restrictions that are out there when it comes to financial options. So we want a partner with the state to invest in it. And I think that's one of the things that we do need to focus on when we talk to our state legislatures. We love to have businesses come in. Every politician loves to have the ribbon cuttings and things like that. But if we don't take care of some of the other things around it, whether it's infrastructure and housing, those businesses are going to look to Ohio and be like, well, why would I come to Ohio or if they're having some of these issues with. Infrastructure and housing and this is a grant that would actually allow that opportunity to solve a lot of those issues and be a direct investment so when the state house says okay you get X amount of dollars where's our return on investment we'll actually be able to show them quantifiable evidence about how much this is actually improved not only our region but the state as a whole.
Juravich: And Mayor Mearn, what about in Finley? What would you use a redevelopment grant for?
Muryn: Yeah, so there are actually three buildings around town that are old, beautiful, historic structures that right now really only two floors of the five stories are being used. And when I talk to the owners, it is really just the redevelopment cost of old facilities like this, specifically just be adding a elevator and a sprinkling system, which are state required codes. Is uneconomical to be able to then be able to do the additional investment. And unless you are, you know, a really big developer with deep pockets, it becomes really difficult. And so those are beautiful buildings, two of them in our downtown, one directly off of downtown that are just being completely underutilized. That would be beautiful. They could be office spaces, they could be apartments, they could incubator spaces. Like the options are endless that I would love to have state support to do that. And in a community like Finley, you know, there are some specific niche programs through the state right now, like Jobs Ohio has a vibrant communities fund. Well, our poverty level isn't low enough to do that, but we don't score high enough on some of the other programs to get those funds. So again, I think it's like we're, as mayors, we're constantly trying to put, I always tell people we're professional puzzlers. How are we putting the pieces of the puzzle together? And it seems like a lot of times we have the state develops programs. That then don't fit into any of the puzzles that we're trying to make. So well-intentioned, but would be a lot more effective if working with the communities. And Finley is a 200 plus year old city. So the challenges of investing and preserving that history that we want becomes a lot challenging.
Juravich: And before we take the break, I wanted to talk about housing briefly because, um, Carrie, you have the Ohio mayors Alliance, um for proposals, you break out housing as one separately. And obviously housing is a huge issue everywhere in the state. Everyone's talking about housing. What do you want the state to do when it comes to housing for core cities?
McCarthy: Yeah, the recommendation that we have in the report is building on that core cities transformation fund, utilizing the revenue within that is to do two things around housing that will help support our cities. One is to expand the redevelopment ready project that's currently in existence, and that is a project that provides housing assistance funding for communities for housing near a major job site. What we're saying is let's extend that to core cities as well, because we don't have the land capacity to have a mega job site in our cities, but we do have real housing needs in underutilized areas where some of those state dollars could be really important. And then the second thing that we're asking for in this is a state set aside on infrastructure, which are some of the things Mayor Begney mentioned, just around the hookups for water and sewer and those costs that can be. You know, sometimes small, but impediments for communities to developing housing and creating housing for new workforce. So those are the two big components that we're asking for.
Juravich: Joe, what about housing in Reynoldsburg? I mean, do you need more like everyone needs more housing?
Begeny: I don't think there's ever going to be a time anytime soon where everybody's like, no, we have plenty of housing. Reynoldsburg has been actually at the forefront of this. We've redesigned our zoning code before the city of Columbus did to make it easier for developers to identify places. But what we run into now is the kind of the same thing. We're running into those infrastructure costs. We're run into OK, how about connecting from this area to, you know, for sewer and for water? And some of those options would be beneficial, especially when you're looking to bring in workforce housing or just various different housings, even senior living. That reduces that overall cost to make it more affordable for the community members that need that housing all the way throughout.
Juravich: And what about in Finley and Christina? How are you doing on housing? Yeah.
Muryn: Housing definitely is a really big focus. One of the things that we've seen is much more multifamily housing, which is great to an extent, but you also wanna make sure that you don't start losing that single family residential housing stock. So there's two really big things that were focused on is how do we do development, infill development, or redevelopment of kind of existing neighborhoods, while then also looking at building new neighborhoods. On the new neighborhood, certainly the infrastructure cost. And I think folks just don't, you know, when we talk about inflation over the last couple of years, when I talked to my team, culverts for roadways, we used to be able to buy them for seven to $9,000. They're now over $40,000, so the infrastructure- I don't know what a culvert is. So it's the ways that, again, storm water moves through. So yeah, sorry. Yeah, but like just to give you a frame of reference like everything has gone up. So how do we help? Mitigate that to get the developers especially local developers who may want to be, you know be willing to make that investment But I think that you know having programs like this that are focused on new housing But also redeveloping existing neighborhoods, you Know one of the things that mayors have really been talking about recently is how do? We? Support that infill redevelopment because we don't want to have urban sprawl, it makes it harder and costlier for us to maintain, but it also is then taking up really important farmland and causing strife with township. So how do we balance wanting to continue to grow and evolve as we're seeing people wanting to move to our cities or that we're wanting to attract them to be sustainable while also making sure that we're being good stewards of the land across our state.
Juravich: We will continue with our guests. Keary McCarthy, executive director of the Ohio Mayors Alliance, Reynoldsburg Mayor Joe Begani, and Finley Mayor Christina Mearn. And coming up, we're going to find out what the Ohio Mayor's Alliance would like to see from the next governor. That's when All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News. You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. The members of the Bipartisan Ohio Mayor's Alliance hope the old cliche about a rising tide, raising all boats, rings true. Dozens of Ohio mayors are asking state lawmakers to refocus on the state's core cities to help pay for municipal needs, from first responder salaries to city redevelopment grants. Will lawmakers go for this? Will the new governor? Still with us is Keary McCarthy, Executive Director of the Ohio Mayor's Alliance. Thanks for being here, Keary. No, thanks for having me. And Joe Beggini is the Mayor of Reynoldsburg. Thanks for bein' here, Joe. And also Christina Mearn, Mayor of Findlay. Thanks for been here, Christina. Of course. All right, so Ohio will elect a new governor this year, and as mayors, I mean, what is the main focus that you would like to see a new Governor address to benefit your city? Is it implementing this plan? Like, uh, Joe, what do you want from a new, new governor?
Begeny: I think it's going to start with communication. We want to make sure that we have a seat at the table because the decisions that the governor makes and the state house makes impacts all of us and we want to make sure they understand that whatever decisions that they want to do has an impact on us and to have our input and influence in it to make sure that were all working together for a common goal which is to make the state that we all know it can be.
Juravich: Mm-hmm and Christina, what about you? What do you want to see from a new mayor or a new you're not new mayor Oh my gosh, I'm looking at you your mayor. What do I want to say from a New Governor? Yes
Muryn: Yeah, partnership, certainly communication, but really partnership. It's one thing to talk to us or talk at us, but I think really working together, we have merit. Each of our communities is a little bit different, that again, our state is so diverse and so fortunate to have that diversity. So we struggle with the same issues, but in very different ways. So When state legislature or the governor is working to implement policies, understanding some of the unintended consequences that may happen when a good idea is implemented in a certain way can be very problematic. And so being able to preempt that and have a conversation and understand the implications and disagree respectfully or hopefully really find common ground, I think is really what we are all about as an organization and are looking for in. Relationship with our state legislator and the new governor.
Juravich: And Carrie, the fourth policy recommendation in your plan is reset the state and local partnership. So has the state's relationship with cities been fractured?
McCarthy: Well, I think we've had a great relationship with Governor DeWine over these last seven, eight years, and that's the kind of partnership I think both Mayor Mearn and Mayor Begney were referencing. I think, you know, we have obstacles for sure, but I think what we hope that the next governor embraces is the idea that, you now, we are stronger together and that cities provide, you no, real valuable, not just economics to the state, Bye! You know, richness and culture and great places to be attract people from outside of Ohio to our to our state. And that's where that partnership plays such a vital role. You know. I think there are some things that we hear regularly from from lawmakers around, you know, the the number of local governments and jurisdictions that are out there. It's going to take some partnership to solve some of those challenges, you know.
Juravich: Are you talking about consolidation?
McCarthy: Yeah, I mean, I think I think those those conversations can't just be done by decree I mean they can but that you know, it's gonna be less effective if Than trying to work together and figure out how local governments can better collaborate, you know Home rule is an issue that is something that we talk about often. Yeah
Juravich: Yeah, that was the next thing I was going to bring up. I talked with the director of the Ohio Municipal League and he has concerns about home rule. The state is making decisions that some mayors feel should be left up to the cities. Examples that were given by the Ohio municipal league include firearms regulation and flavored tobacco regulation. So these are areas where the state has passed a law that maybe contradicts city law and it's all being litigated. So can you repair home rule, the fracture we have here in home rule?
McCarthy: Yeah, what we're proposing is a state home rule commission, which would bring together state and local leaders in a bipartisan way to help navigate where that line is between local control and an overriding state regulatory framework. It is murky, but, you know, solving these issues through litigation is not the right way to solve policy disputes. And that's why we think this bipartisan state and local home rule commission. Will help the legislature navigate those complex issues around home rule. And again, that's where the partnership is gonna take root is, if we're gonna have, make progress on some of the issues that are affecting our state and our communities, we've got to be able to work together.
Juravich: Well, Mayor Beggany, have you had any issues where you wanted to pass a law related to flavored tobacco or firearms regulation and the state has a law that contradicts what you want to do?
Begeny: Yes, we have. Actually, we're part of that tobacco lawsuit, but we're also, we had a proposal that was going to be a leveled at a fourth degree misdemeanor. If a law-abiding citizen had a gun and their child took that gun and used that gun to commit a crime, that we would at least be able to have some sort of a misdemyanor account on that particular parent for letting that gun fall into those hands in the first place. That's something that we cannot do. That has been preempted based on some of the other I've never met anybody on either side of the aisle all the way across that doesn't think parental responsibility is a good thing, and that is something that our community was looking to do, but we cannot because of the issue at the state level. And I think that's the perfect example for us of having those conversations about what's best for each of the individual communities, because we know them best. We walk through the grocery store and we get questions about things all the time. This is one of those that comes up.
Juravich: And Mayor Mearn, what about in Finley? Have you had issues with your city and a conflict with the state? I don't believe we have had any.
Muryn: Anything specific. From my perspective, I think the reality is, is I don't want our state legislature spending time on things that are not directly in their purview. So yes, our state's that home rule constitutional authority is one of the things that makes our state great. And as a Republican, I thinks it's really important for us to preserve that constitutional right that's been given to our communities. But as a constituent as well, it's like, Why are we spending time? At the state level making policies and addressing things that sometimes aren't even an issue. I remember, I think it was either plastic bag ban or they said something at the State where cities couldn't do that. And we were all together and we're like, wait, so who's trying to do that? They're spending time past and everybody's like, nope, nope, nobody's doing that in the state of Ohio. And so I think unfortunately with social media and some of the kind of political hot buttons at time policy is being passed just to kind of get a headline. Or to get attention to say they're addressing something and fighting back on uber conservatism or wokeism, whatever it may be. And that just isn't how we should be governing our state. It's really like, how are we focused on doing the work of our people and our mutual constituents that we're responsible for each and every day?
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about how the Ohio Mayor's Alliance is looking to strengthen the state's core cities and we're talking with Keary McCarthy, Executive Director of the Ohio Mayors Alliance, Reynoldsburg Mayor Joe Begany and Finley Mayor Christina Mearn. While I have the Mayor of Reynoldsburg on the show, I have to ask about Flock cameras because that's been a big issue. They're the automatic license plate reading cameras and Mayor Beganay, you recently decided to stop using them. You had 32 of them in action. Why did you decide to stop?
Begeny: Well, I think there's a couple of factors to it. One, the biggest thing that we have to do as a city is maintain the trust of our community. And because of a couple of incidents with former officers, that trust has been broken. And when we look at that, as well as Flock camera and conversations that the community had about concerns about privacy rights and safety and access to the data, I felt it was best to go ahead and in that program at that time, because we have to have the trust of our our community, our police officers are very well respected and we want to make sure we keep it that way.
Juravich: And you, I think, if I'm reading this right, you spent $250,000 on the cameras with the intent of reducing crime, right? Correct. So, did they reduce crime?
Begeny: I think it was a useful tool to help solve certain crimes. I think probably the most common thing that we had saw was car thefts. So if somebody steals a car, it was easier to identify those vehicles. That being said, it was just another tool that was there that officers were able to use, but they were able to find more stolen cars prior to Flock and we found stolen cars since Flock.
Juravich: Okay. So, but you spent this $250,000 on it. That's a lot of money. And we're sitting here talking about all cities asking the state for more money. So I mean, what are state lawmakers to say where it's like, oh, well, you spent this money and now you're not even using the cameras anymore.
Begeny: Well, I think that's over the course of a number of years, and so we have very limited funds left for the remainder of this year. But again, this is one of those things where we felt based on what we're hearing from our community and our personal experiences that that decision is best left up for us. And we'll take the hit as far as that particular part of what we owe for the reminder of the year. But at the same time, you know, we talk about home rule, there are also four bills in the house right now that are being floated around to basically curtail or inflow camera in the state in general. So these are not feelings and thoughts that are just unique to Reynoldsburg. There are a number of communities and certainly members of the state house that feel the same way. We just happen to get out ahead of it.
Juravich: Yeah, did you think of maybe passing a law for Reynoldsburg about regulating Flock cameras instead of stop using them all together?
Begeny: We actually had a couple of things in our original contract provision. One of them was actually to prohibit out-of-state searches But for some reason due to a technical glitch according to Flock that search option was actually allowed to be turned back on without our knowledge And that kind of led to a couple other issues with trust with the community
Juravich: Okay, so it's a trust issue there. Christina, does Finley have Flock cameras? We do.
Muryn: The only Flock cameras in the city of Finley are on private property related to some commercial businesses that do have them. The city does not have any Flock cameras. It is something that we have looked at in the past and I do think is a very useful tool. The city doesn't have them, but we have had instances where crimes have been committed in Finley and they, we were able to find and arrest someone out of town very quickly because of the Flock system. So I think that this really comes back to both, obviously the home rule. I don't think that the state should be stating that communities cannot use them. I think each city needs to evaluate how and if they would be used. But I do think that the state should take action on penalties, just as they do with any other misuse of technology, especially by law enforcement, to ensure that there are regulations for bad actors or misuse. And I think, unfortunately, I think the technology and the use evolved faster than the policies did at both the state and local level. And so I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water, but I do think that we should kind of pause. Evaluate and make sure that each community is putting proper policies in place and that the state is protecting our citizens as is their responsibility.
Juravich: And Keary, this relates to the Ohio Mayor's Alliance asking state lawmakers, you know, lots of cities around Ohio are spending public safety money on these Flock cameras. And now everyone's questioning it. Does this hurt your case in asking the state to help you with public safety of money?
McCarthy: Well, I think, first of all, I think Mayor Muryn said it really well. I think the technology got out before the policy. And so I think finding ways to course correct and make improvements so we can balance the valuable public safety impact that license plate readers have versus community safety and privacy rights, I think is really important. But I think you know, Keep in mind that after the pandemic, there was a nationwide increase in crime in communities. And so mayors across, not just the state of Ohio, but across the country were trying to rapidly respond to that challenge. And while new technology was coming online, there were opportunities available to figure out ways to reduce crime in community. And so, you know, I don't think that it hurts our case. I think it actually makes our case that cities are investing in new technology. Work and we're course adjusting when we need to. When our community responds with concerns, we're listening. That's the way it's supposed to work and we're making adjustments. No one's perfect, no one can see into the future, but I think finding ways to make rational decisions in an effective way to keep our community safe is really important and I think that's exactly what has happened.
Juravich: Unfortunately, we only have a minute left. So I wanted to end on the population growth. Your report says that you will incentivize growth in cities where growth is welcome. So tell me about that. Does that mean that rural communities are not welcoming growth? I hate to ask you that in a minute, but go for it.
McCarthy: Yeah, I think there is a real mutual benefit here. I think there is a real concern about growth in some areas of the state. And I think that having the state reinvest in core cities that are built for growth, have the infrastructure for growth have the capacity for growth not only helps revitalize so many of Ohio's core cities and communities across the state, but it also preserves and protects farmland, which is a key component of our agricultural industry. And so. I think this is a best of both worlds scenario, reinvesting in our core cities through infill as opposed to incentivizing growth that's going to trickle out and sprawl into the rural areas. I think that this is the approach we're trying to take, which is find and leverage the assets that we have and invest in those in a way that benefits not just the city but the region and the state as a whole.
Juravich: We've been speaking with Keary McCarthy, Executive Director of the Ohio Mayor's Alliance. Thanks for joining us today. Thanks for having me. And Reynoldsburg Mayor Joe Begeney. Thanks for joing us today!
Begeny: No, thank you. It was a pleasure.
Juravich: And we also were speaking with Finley Mayor Christina Muryn. Thank you for your time today. Of course, my pleasure, thank you. And you've been listening to All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. I'm Amy Juravich, thanks for joining us.