This episode originally aired on Sept. 9, 2026.
Pike County is located in southern Ohio.
Known for its beautiful landscape and industrial history, the county was struck with tragedy in 2016 when eight members of the Rhoden family were murdered.
The investigation into the murders took more than two years, spanning across counties and states, eventually leading to the arrest of four members of the Wagner family.
When Laura Paglin, a documentary filmmaker, went to Pike County, she found much more than just the murders that shook the community. She found a place that had been ignored for decades.
In her documentary, "This is Pike County," Paglin displays the hardships Pike County is enduring, ranging from the national drug epidemic to anatomic waste due to a plant and nuclear site to the upcoming construction of an energy plant and possibly the nation's largest data center.
Paglin uncovers a community that has been overlooked, but fights every day to keep their friends and loved ones safe in the county where they grew up.
Guests:
- Laura Paglin, documentary filmmaker/producer and director of "This is Pike County"
- Katie Millard, digital reporter, NBC4
- Gary Arnett, development director, Pike County Office of Community and Economic Development
Transcript
This transcript is generated with AI. To ensure its accuracy, review the audio file.
Amy Juravich: Welcome to All Sides with Amy Juravich. Sitting in southern Ohio is Pike County, known for its beautiful landscape and industrial history. This county was struck with tragedy in 2016 when eight members of the Rhoden family were shot and killed. The murders gained national attention and caught the attention of a documentary filmmaker. This has not been the only tragedy that has hit Pike County. In the documentary, this is Pike county. Laura Paglen is the director and the producer, and she uncovers the everyday struggles the community is facing. The documentary will be shown in Columbus soon, more about that in a few minutes. But here to talk with us about the past, present, and future of Pike County is the filmmaker Laura Paglin, and she's also the director and one of the producers of the documentary, which is called "This is Pike County." Welcome to All Sides, Laura. Good to be here. All right, so for someone who's never been to Pike County, can you describe it for us, you know, its size, where it's located in Ohio?
Laura Paglin: Sure it's about, it's only about a one hour drive south from Columbus, but it's a rural Appalachian community. Very different. I mean, it's got a charming kind of main street and then, you know, it becomes rural. There's farmland. And the population, actually when I started the population I believe was around 32,000 right now. It's around 27,000. Now.
Juravich: Population of 27,000 and did you get the vibe that the community there is tight-knit? Do generations of people live there for a long time or do people tend to like move in and out of Pike County?
Paglin: Well, I definitely got the sense it was tight-knit. I mean, you could talk to anyone, and someone knew someone who knew someone. I mean even as far as the murders, I mean you'll find out there are two families involved. But yeah, it was very easy to find someone who new someone. And even though I should say, it's very spread out. I mean we have these winding hills, and you have to drive long distances sometimes to get to. Various towns and.
Juravich: I'm not going to be spoiling any of the film today, but we're going to talk about the film throughout this hour. And at the beginning of the documentary, you say the protagonist of this film is a rural county in Southern Ohio. Why did you decide to make the focus a place and not a person?
Paglin: Well, it's very easy to get caught up in a specific issue, you know, like opioid addiction or a true crime film about the murders. And I thought momentarily of doing something about the murder, but I really just became more intrigued with kind of the everyday life of the people there. And I found that there's sort of a magic to some of the locations. Um, and like even the, I stayed at this budget motel called the Piketon Motel. It almost felt like a little movie set and you know, the woman who was running it, the manager named Mamie, she was almost like a den mother because I soon realized, well, this is like, um, it's not just a regular hotel. It's almost like, a residential hotel. And a lot of the people living there at kind of at a crossroads in their life. And then, you know, you have the diner and there's kind of a whole thing that goes on there and then the beautiful landscape. So, yeah, and I didn't wanna follow one particular person either. I was just sort of wanted to get a feel of the county.
Juravich: Yeah. So what brought you there in the first place, though, was in 2016, the community was thrown into the center of national attention when eight members of the same family were all killed. Here's a clip from the documentary where a news station is discussing the murders. This is back in 2016. And the audio comes from a TV news channel that's airing at local Pike County diner so you'll hear some diner noise too.
News clip: It's been exactly two years since eight members of the Rhoden family were shot to death in Pike County and still no one's been charged and no suspects have been named.
News clip: Eight members of the Roden family were methodically shot and killed in four separate homes on their rural Pike County farm on April 22nd, 2016. Pike County Sheriff Charles Reeder posted on Facebook that he lives this case every day, and after 1,000 tips and nearly 500 interviews, says he's still confident the case will be solved. But for Roden Family members and the community, all they can do is wait for answers and Ultimately justice
Juravich: So since that news segment aired, four members of the Wagner family, Jake, George, Angela, and Billy have been charged, three of which have already faced trial or taken pleas. The fourth member of the family, Billy Wagner, has a trial date set for January 11th, 2027, after facing many delays due to legal challenges. So Laura, you originally went to Pike County after the murders occurred. What about that case drew you there and you thought I need to know more?
Paglin: Well, actually, I didn't go there right after the murders. I thought, boy, that's really horrific. But I never considered making a film about it. And after all, the FBI was on. It was such a huge case. It just wasn't something I was considering. But after a year, I was just surprised that it hadn't been solved. I mean, a murder of this. Magnitude in a close-knit community, I thought, boy, it's gonna be solved in two weeks. So I just thought, huh, I wonder what it's like there, after a year in this close-Knit place. So I decided to go down there, and I sort of told myself I wasn't gonna make a film. Maybe I'd practice using my camera a little bit. So. Easy words for a filmmaker, yeah. Yeah, I kinda have to coax myself into making a film because it is such a massive commitment.
Juravich: So what what kind of community did you find after these murders when it had been you know Like as that clip said it had, been two years and they still did not have leads They did not, have they had not arrested anybody. I mean talk about how the national attention but also just The the deaths of eight people. How did that impact the people of the area?
Paglin: Well, as I say, it's a little different because I came there a year later. But I did meet with some of the grieving parents and of course it was impacting them like it happened yesterday. So it was a very heavy kind of feeling. But for other people, still life goes on and that wasn't the center of their focus, Especially in a in a poor area like this. I mean, people are struggling day to day. So it's not like they had all the details. And some knew the family members you'll see in the film. But that's where I sort of became more interested in the everyday lives of people.
Juravich: Yeah, you kind of turned from the murders to like, let's learn about this area, right? This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about the documentary "This is Pike County" with Laura Paglen, a documentary filmmaker and the director and co-producer of "This is Pike County." So before participating in the documentary, was there concern from the people that you interviewed, you know, about how the county would be portrayed? Were there people who were hesitant to talk to you?
Paglin: Uh, I know there were people, I think a common refrain is they don't like being portrayed as dumb hillbillies. So I think that's, um, so I guess my, my answer to that is that I spend a lot of time with people so that they can speak for themselves.
Juravich: Did you have to earn trust for some people or whenever you come and stick a camera in their face?
Paglin: Well, I don't just come and stick a camera in someone's face, but I mean, I did find overall people really wanted to talk to me, and it's clear I'm an outsider, so that has pluses and minuses. I think some people, they know I don t know everybody and they can say things maybe little more freely to me. And some really, I think, preferred to talk to me off-camera, so. You were like, oh, I wish you would have said that when I was running. Yeah, there was a lot of, you know. So it really just varied from person to person, as it would anywhere.
Juravich: Well, addiction is a theme that runs throughout the documentary, whether it's people who are dealing with it themselves or the children and friends of a person with addiction taking a toll on them. It's taken a toll on the Pike County community. Let's listen to a clip of a man who is doing community service related to drug charges.
Documentary clip: I've cooked meth since I was 14. I just liked it. I was fascinated the chemistry and being able to do something I was good at, you know, and everybody wants to be good at something. And I was kind of like, I felt like Robin Hood of meth, you know, like I got a given heart. So I thought I was helping. But in the long run, I ruined more lives than I even know, you know, which is why it's good to do the community service to give back a little bit of what I took, which will never amount to what I
Juravich: So when you spent time in Pike County, you saw firsthand how drugs have affected the community. Can you tell me what you observed about addiction in Pike county?
Paglin: I think the saddest part about it is you meet people like this gentleman and this young mother at the motel who's also in the film and you realize, man, this is just lost potential. I mean, you can hear in this clip, he probably would have been good at chemistry and he's a smart guy. Anyone and talking about the whole how meth is made and all the chemistry of it. And you just think, gosh, if he may be grown up, I don't know his background, but you just know he could have been brilliant at something else. So I think that's just incredibly sad.
Juravich: There are situations in the documentary where children are exposed to drugs. It's even mentioned some children starting drugs very young. Can you talk about how children are impacted by the drug use in rural southern Ohio?
Paglin: Yeah, so I think that's something we don't see a lot of, but. Yeah, these children, there were just so many children who had parents that were addicted. And you know, you don't even see that much of it in the film, but you know they're dealing with seeing their parents shoot up and deaths and just yet they want to be kids. And so, and there's one young girl, Lily, who's in the films. Yeah.
Juravich: Yeah, I was just gonna say, speaking of kids, so you focus on a girl named Lily. She becomes kind of a little bit of a main character in the documentary. Can you talk to me about how you met Lily? How did she become a prominent figure for you in this documentary?
Paglin: Well, as I say, I was staying at the Piketon Motel, and as soon as she saw me with my camera, she kind of latched on, and she started pretending like she was a reporter, and started showing me around the motel, talking directly to the camera, and really just enjoyed the whole attention. She was just such a bubbly young girl, and you could tell that she really wanted more out of life. I mean, her, it was. Her life's pretty chaotic. She's living with her father at the motel on the weekends and then her mother in the outskirts of town in a kind of dilapidated trailer. And there's constantly some drama going on. So I really, that sort of becomes a central question in the film, you know, how's the next generation? What's going to happen to them? How's she gonna grow up?
Juravich: I saw her as like an ambassador to Pike County for you in the movie. Like she seemed to enjoy talking to you. She wanted to talk about what was around her and the people and give her opinions. Did she just offer that all up to you or did you have to like talk to her a lot? Well in the in the
Paglin: beginning she certainly did offer up a lot and she wanted to be in the film later as she becomes a bit older she became a little more self-conscious about me being around when there are other people but yes and she was often trying to think of places to go and but part of the time she just really wanted my company and so or take her to a restaurant or to a pet store, that kind of thing.
Juravich: Um, she's very mature for her age. Uh, did you find that some kids, you know, have to act like adults more quickly because of their surroundings? Was that, is that something that you found or is it just in her? Like that, that idea of having to grow up quickly because of just the, you Know, their parents being involved with drugs.
Paglin: Yeah, I mean, certainly the stuff that she was seeing and some of the other kids were seeing would make them grow up, but then on the other hand, they still act like kids, you know, riding their bikes around and just talking about these things, the drugs and all, in a very kind of matter of fact way as if it's just part of life, which is, you now, it's disturbing to hear that as well. And there's a scene where I won't ruin it for you, but. But there's a pretty poignant scene where Lily and another child at the motel are talking about the death of his mother.
Juravich: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it is it is a hard scene, but they also are just being like kids in it, too. You're reminded that they have something that they're going through, but then they're also still kids. We are talking with Laura Paglen, documentary filmmaker, one of the producers and the director of "This Is Pike County." And she's going to stay with us for the hour. "This Is Pipe County" will be shown on September 11th at 7 p.m. At the Wexner Center for the Arts. It's a part of the Cinema Columbus Film Festival. And there is a promo code for Pike County residents, a half price, if you enter the code Pike, to go see the film. Coming up, we're gonna continue our discussion of the past, present, and future of Pike County. That's when All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.
You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. Pike County has been the center of many national headlines, including the Rhoden family murders, the Portsmouth gaseous diffusion plant, an atomic waste disposal site, and now a new energy plant and data center, which, if it happens, would be the largest data center in the world. Here to discuss these headlines and more is Katie Millard, a digital reporter at NBC4 who covers higher education. Enterprise News and State Politics. She also works as a part of NBC4 Investigates and contributes to the station's statewide weekly political show, "Sunday Briefing." Welcome to All Sides, Katie.
Katie Millard: Hi, thanks for having me.
Juravich: And still with us is Laura Paglen, documentary filmmaker and the director and one of the producers of the film. "This is Pike County." Thanks again for being here, Laura. Thank you. So Katie, we briefly discussed the Roden family murders earlier in the show, but there's been some more information about them recently. Two of the Wagner's are being re-sentenced due to the court abusing its discretion by sentencing two of them before they testified at Billy Wagner's trial, a trial that hasn't happened yet. Can you explain this a bit more about the changing of sentences and what's going on?
Millard: Yes, so this whole thing has gotten so complicated. I know it really weighs on Pike County. 10 years out, we don't have all of these sentences. We don't even have the Billy Wagner case fully done. And so we're seeing this issue within the courts where it's really getting bogged down. I know there was this whole issue with the death penalty on the table, off the table. And now we're looking at this re-sentencing for two out of four of the Wagner family members. Because there's just a lot of issues with the courts. It's been such a slow crawl to justice. And I know that that is something that's still really complicating life for many people in Pike County who knew and loved the victims.
Juravich: And Laura, what did you learn over the years of being in Pike County about the motive with the four members of the Wagner family? Do we know more about that? Yeah, I mean, it was ultimately.
Paglin: A child custody battle. I believe the girl was maybe two at the time so the one Wagner family I guess they decided they wanted her you know as part of their family and murdered the other family. I mean it's
Juravich: It's crazy. And Katie, it's like what you said, it is crazy to think if she was two at the time, she's now 12. It's been 10 years. This case has been dragging out. I mean, you've been to Pike County to cover other things. Do you feel like this case still hangs over them no matter what else is going on?
Millard: I think it absolutely does, if only because of the immense ripples and shock it led out across Ohio. I know Governor DeWine earlier this year was speaking with one of my colleagues, said he had been in Cleveland the day of the murders and immediately hopped in a car and drove right down. He was the attorney general at the time. It was such a shocking case, spread out across four crime scenes, one family. And there were two years where the people of Pike County really lived without knowing who was being charged or accused.
Juravich: I know, you have no arrests, it's like a murderers on the loose and you don't know what's going on, yeah.
Millard: Yes, we did a fantastic 10 year look back earlier this year in a couple parts at my station, a colleague of mine did it. And they spoke with people and they looked back at archival footage and you saw these clips of Pike County residents who were like, I'm getting my gun, we don't know what's happening and we're afraid.
Juravich: I wanted to pivot to another thing that has put Pike County in the news. Pike County has gone through quite a lot, especially being a rather small county with just 27,000 residents. Back in 1954, the Portsmouth gaseous diffusion plant opened, and it enriched uranium for the Cold War and then was later used for commercial power. In 2001, it stopped production We have an audio clip from the film, it's a national day of remembrance organized by the Cold War patriots. It's a National Organization serving former atomic workers and honoring their service. Many workers were sickened, but the candles were not lit specifically for people who died of those illnesses. These candles are being lit remembering their work during the Cold war.
Documentary clip: More than 1 million civilian Americans, like yourselves here today, work to create and maintain our nuclear defense. Yet the efforts to create the world's most powerful arsenal required the use of materials that were also highly toxic and hazardous to your human health. Many of you have your own fallen heroes that you will recall, along with those whose names we now share as we light the candles, and there are.
Juravich: And Laura, did you find that the history of this plant kind of scarred the community, or were they happy the plant existed back in the day because of all the jobs it provided?
Paglin: Well, like many things, it's complex. Yeah, I mean, it provided economic stability for decades. But, and especially back in the 50s, they were not, I mean this plant went up in record time, actually, and they were no careful. So many of the workers, so I mean it was a huge, at a huge cost they had this economic stability. Many were sickened by the radiation. And then even the sad part is even the people, just the people in town. I mean, I didn't go into this in the film, but there've been children that have gotten rare cancers and there've studies lately that there is definitely a cancer belt. So yes, it's at a huge cost.
Juravich: And Katie, in 2020, construction began for a new on-site waste disposal facility. And many residents were not happy about it. I have another audio clip. This is Tracy Lamerson, who is now the principal of Piketon Junior High. In the movie, she talks about how Pike County is beautiful with its rolling hills and beautiful streams, but now something is destroying that.
Tracy Lamerson: Around February of this year, I heard about the on-site waste disposal cell. We're gonna call it what it really is and that's a radioactive waste dump. Some people look at this waste disposal cell as prosperity for our community and I'm baffled because I cannot understand how any type of radioactive waste dump would be good for our communities.
Juravich: Katie, what do we know about the disposal sites? I mean, basically they're getting rid of waste from this old uranium enrichment plant, right?
Millard: Yes. So they're tearing down these buildings, part of this deconstruction, decommissioning effort. And when they have all of this deep debris, it was used in uranium enrichment. So there is radiation. There is this leftover nuclear tie to all of these. And so what they do is they try and push it into these large cells. They're going to have up to 12. And they're in theory going to be able to seal all of the contamination, the radioactive waste underneath these large cells. In theory, it will keep everything contaminat- They had everything that is contaminated safe and secure for thousands of years. But there are real concerns about what if there's an error? This is a community that's had a lot of exposure, a lot radiation, a lot of sickness and unfortunately a lot death because of it. It makes sense that there are these fears.
Juravich: Yeah, you use the phrase in theory twice there because, I mean, basically, yeah, you're taking pieces that have radioactive material associated with them and you're burying them in the ground, right? But, you know, nobody's perfect. Is that Laura, do you want to add to that? Well, I want to point out that
Paglin: The group of residents and the village of Piketon itself were really fighting this dump. And they brought in outside experts to look at the Department of Energy's proposed dump. And they found all kinds of flaws and cracks in the bedrock. I mean, they went into excruciating detail looking at this wasn't just a bunch of people waving signs. They spent years studying the plans and found all kind of flaws. And Even the Ohio EPA did nothing about this. So it just, I think part of it, the reason it was able to happen is because the area, that part of Ohio just doesn't have a lot of political clout. You wouldn't see this happening in a wealthy area, I think.
Juravich: Now, in May of 2019, a middle school in Pike County was closed for the rest of the school year after detecting enriched uranium inside. The levels were too high. Can either of you discuss the community's concerns with the presence of uranium, the health concerns?
Millard: I've had the privilege of speaking with a number of residents and some lawyers who are representing families whose children have developed diseases that they believe are linked to this school and other contamination. I remember a few months ago, I was out with a woman named Vina Colley. She was a former worker at the plant and she took me into all these haulers and was like, this is where there's contamination in the water, this where there is contamination in the soil. And it's this really interesting. Phenomenon where you grow up knowing that there's some sort of contamination and then suddenly it hits your family And I think of this one girl Cheyenne Dunham. She passed away November 25th a few years ago and They are suing the plant. They believe it's because of radiation She got while she was in the creeks and breathing the air and eating the food that was grown there
Juravich: Yeah, and you get into this a little bit in the documentary, just about the waste disposal site and the health dangers there. I mean, what, I guess, what are people of Pike County thinking? Because, you know, it's happening and they couldn't stop it. I mean you know what, yeah, what do you make of that?
Paglin: Well, I believe many of the people who were fighting it were just exhausted, you know, and I guess they have to accept it and move on. I mean, and I think the really hard part is people can't just get up and move suddenly. I mean. So.
Juravich: Well, some people did though, obviously, because you said that when you started this documentary the population was 33,000 and now it's 27,000. We don't know why people move.
Paglin: I mean, but so, you know, I can't speak for everyone and what their thoughts are, but I think what really alarmed me, and you'll see this in the film, is how close this dump, I mean it's massive, how close it is to people's farmland and houses. I mean you can see farm animals grazing right there. I mean that's kind of the shocking part that's just right in the center.
Juravich: It might be the middle of nowhere to someone who lives in a city, but it's not the middle of nowhere to someone who lives there, right? This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about the past, present, and future of Pike County with Katie Millard, a digital reporter at NBC4, and Laura Paglen, documentary filmmaker, one of the producers and director of the film "This is Pike County." Katie, back in April of this, just a few months ago, the Trump administration announce the construction. Of a $33 billion natural gas and data center project in, you guessed it, Pike County. It's called the PORTS, Pike Technology Campus, and it's being built at the former Portsmouth gaseous diffusion plant site. And it's been developed by Japanese multinational investment holding company called SoftBank as well as a company called SB Energy in partnership with OpenAI. NVIDIA and the US Department of Energy. I mean, this is a massive project. Once done, it is said to be, it will be, if it happens, the largest data center in the world. So Katie, do we know why was Pike County picked?
Millard: They say they pick Pike County because it has this legacy of being able to work with these really complicated technological feats like the nuclear enrichment plant. And they say there's nothing more valuable than an experienced workforce. Pike County also has one of the lowest or highest unemployment rates in the state and they say, you know, we're bringing all these jobs. A lot of times data centers get criticism because they do not bring jobs. This one will bring 2,500 permanent jobs, which is actually enough to bridge the unemployment gap in Pike County several times. That said, there's this natural hesitancy we're seeing across the state and across the country toward data centers, toward anything that has to do with the revival of this plant that caused so much complication in Pike County for so long. But yes, it's this huge multi-billion international project that really will have quite an impact.
Juravich: And the project needs 35,000 construction workers. And you mentioned, once it's built, it'll need 2,500 full-time employees. But Piketon is the closest town. Piketon's population is 2,600. And Pike County itself has 27,000 people. So Laura, what did you find about, is Pike County ready for a massive wave of people, I guess, coming to it? No.
Paglin: Well that would be hard to imagine. Yeah, I don't know what they're going to do actually, but I mean this is all really new so I have not talked to anyone. I guess my question would be you know these permanent jobs are they going to be, I mean you saw this with the plant, a lot of the better paying jobs that remained were people that lived outside of Pike County. I'm just wondering if you know, you know. Will these jobs go to Pike County residents or are they more likely to be outsiders?
Millard: Course when I speak with the companies they say it's going to benefit Pike County, it's gonna benefit Southeastern Ohio. I don't know that anybody can promise that today especially because Pike County may not have the number of people able to fill the jobs. So there are a lot of really wonderful sounding promises and I understand why there's skepticism within the community.
Juravich: Yeah, you've been covering the story, Katie. Tell me about the reactions that you heard from people on the ground in Pike County. They're still kind of recovering from the uranium enrichment plant going away. And now they're being told you're going to have a giant natural gas plant that's going to power the world's largest data center. Yay.
Millard: No, like you said, there's such a divide here because people do want jobs. And people don't necessarily trust or have the ability to fully trust a data center. There's so many studies that are now coming out. It is such a new-ish phenomenon. Obviously, data centers have been in the state for at least 14 years. But people are just now sort of paying attention because they've been popping up so, so quickly. And there are studies that come out and say, it might be bad for your health. There's this noise pollution. People just don't really know what to do with this. And so I have Pike County residents who have told me, I'm excited for jobs, I'm exciting for revitalization. And I have pike county residents who've told me this isn't what justice looks like. Justice looks like clean jobs. And I don't know that this is what that is.
Juravich: Yeah, and OpenAI has said they will invest money back into Pike County. Did they give any indication of how much or where the money would go?
Millard: They did, I believe it's 40 million and I'm so sorry, I wish I had my notes to double check that. But yes, they're planning to create this community investment fund where people from the community can come in, tell them what they want funded and that's what the money will be used for. OpenAI has also dedicated a large number of these like chat GPT credits that help students. Use more generative AI, a little bit of a more complicated version of chat GPT. Every student in Ohio who works or goes to a public trade or community college is able to access those credits right now, and they say that's to help students and to help build the workforce.
Juravich: Yeah, and our producer, Aaron Rabinowitz, did check 40 million is correct, so we're good, yes. And do you think that, is this an instance with large tech companies coming into smaller communities and just, I don't know, kind of taking over? I feel like that's what it sounds like. It sounds like a large tech company coming into the small community and they're gonna be in charge.
Millard: It's so complicated because I think that's exactly what it feels like, and often that's what it is. I have spoken with OpenAI and then we haven't touched Oklo, but that's a nuclear company also rebuilding some nuclear energy nearby on the site also to power data centers. And both companies have assured me that they are interested in helping the community, interested in listening. I don't know why they would say any different, but I do also know And I won't name the company because they asked me not to, but they've been doing a lot of community service. They don't want me to be covering because they don't people to think that they're doing it just for news. I know that there are real investments in the community. Whether that's worth the payoff is up to Piketon residents.
Juravich: Okay, they're doing community service, but don't want a news story because they want it to seem like they're they want to do the community service. They were in
Millard: They were embarrassed that they had let it slip to me, yes, so I won't read them. Okay.
Juravich: Well, Laura, you're over there taking a bunch of notes. Your documentary ends basically right before the announcement of this world's largest data center. So I do have to ask just before we go to the break, are you planning a part two of your doc?
Paglin: Yeah, I have been asked that probably not because I think to find out how it's affecting people I'd have to spend another few decades there. But I think it's the same question. I may add a little blurb to the end of the film with this recent development, but because it does continue that same question, you know, will there be economic benefit and again, at what cost.
Juravich: Yeah. And it does take decades to really find that out. It's generations. Yes. And Katie, just to end on, are there shovels in the ground? Like how close are we to having this happen?
Millard: There are shovels in the ground. Construction started this summer, but it will take up to a decade to really get going. The first capacity will come online around 2028, and they're promising that a lot of the criticism with data centers is the water use. They have a solution for that. The energy use, it's onsite power, but the onsite won't come into play for a little bit later. So there is this lingering sort of middle ground where they're wondering if this will affect people. The companies assure me it won't, but yes, shovels are on the ground, but it's a process for sure.
Juravich: Right. And in the meantime, before they get the natural gas plant up and running to have the power, they have to use other power and they have to use water that's there until they can develop their own. Right. So it's a process.
Millard: It's definitely a process. I believe that they're doing everything that they can, is what they've told me, to mitigate all costs and effects on local utilities and such. And they do have long-term plans for that. But it is, as they get off the ground, trying to get this as quickly as possible, there's a little bit of wiggle room where utilities may not be covered.
Juravich: We've been talking about the past, present and future of Pike County with Katie Millard, a digital reporter for NBC4. Thank you so much for your time today, Katie. Thank you. And staying with us is Laura Paglen, a documentary filmmaker and one of the producers and the director of "This is Pike County." "This Is Pikes County" will be shown on September 11th at 7 p.m. At the Wexner Center for the Arts. It's a part of the Cinema Columbus Film Festival. And there's a code for Pike County residents, half price to see the movie. The code is Pike. Coming up... We are going to talk about developments in Pike County and what development means for the county's future. That's when all sides continues on 89. 7 NPR news.
You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. "This is Pike County" is a documentary film exploring the past, present, and future of Pike County. It explores a drug epidemic, a radioactive waste site, the upcoming construction of the nation's largest data center, and a passionate community that loves their hometown. Large corporations have a long history of coming into small towns and taking over with their projects. Sometimes these projects can help a town rebuild and thrive. Sometimes they put a strain on the town and can cause community members to move away. Here to talk about developments in Pike County is Gary Arnett, Development Director of the Pike County Office of Community and Economic Development. Welcome to the show, Gary.
Gary Arnett: Thank you. I've brought in my assistant director too, Daphne Mosely. Okay.
Juravich: Okay. Yeah, thank you. And also here still with us is Laura Paglen, documentary filmmaker and one of the producers and the director of "This is Pike County." Thanks again for being here, Laura. Thank you. To start off, Gary, you grew up in Pike County, how has your opinion of your hometown evolved as you grew and grew into your current job? Like what do you think about when think of Pike County.
Arnett: Well, I mean, the plant obviously back in the 50s was one of the main things that happened that really made Pike County. But with how it's evolved, and we've had a lot of businesses, a lot of growth before all this happened. We have Rural King coming in, we've got a lot of other small companies that really make Pike County, the smaller the better. But with all this coming in we really aren't sure what's going on, if we'll to turn.
Juravich: Yeah, well, you know, we started off this hour talking about Pike County when it made national news because of the road and family murders. I mean, what did you think is both a development director and a resident? What did you feel about with all that national attention at the time? Yeah, what how did yeah, how did all the national attention hit you as someone who grew up there with the Rhoden family murders?
Arnett: Be honest with you, it's shocking. I mean, you never would have dreamed that around here and it was out in the middle of nowhere. I mean the old town, the county courthouse was just, it was chaotic.
Arnett: News cameras everywhere but uh yeah it uh it puts on the map but for all the wrong reasons
Juravich: Yeah The documentary that Laura produced is called. "This is Pike County." It talks about the road and family murders but it also follows discussions about the atomic waste disposal site and This is the hundred acre landfill designed to bury low-level radioactive debris from enriched uranium from the plant that used to operate there I wanted to play some audio from the film. This Is Piketon Mayor Billy Spencer discussing the waste disposal sight at a community meeting He's talking to a company representative from the company wanting to create the site.
Piketon Mayor Billy Spencer: Can you honestly say you got community support when the county sheriff standing there, the county treasurer standing there, the county auditor, the health department, the school board, and soon to be more are gonna come out against on-site disposal. We've buried our loved ones here. We've raised our kids and grandkids here. We don't want everybody to move away. It's like they said about the Fernald site. It's a wildlife reserve because no one lives there anymore. And that's all we're saying, you know, you see it. "This is Pike County." This is it right here.
Juravich: Hmm Gary, what are your thoughts on what you just heard the mayor say when he said, you know "This is Pike County" and I mean tell me about tell me that phrase to you
Arnett: Well, I get where he's coming from, because a lot of people didn't want that there. There's a lot controversy. The unknown, that's going to be put in there, basically. And people probably have moved, and maybe will, just for fear. But, you know, we've lived with that plant, well, I've lived it all my life. And so has most of everybody else around here. And... Whether you like it or hate it, it was part of life. And it made a big difference in Pike County. But a lot of people paid the price too.
Juravich: Right and it made a big difference you mean because of the jobs it brought in like steady jobs, right? Yeah
Arnett: Yeah, and very livable wages. I mean, high-paying jobs in comparison to everything else around here.
Juravich: Right. And tell me about that from your position as a development director, the idea of good, well-paying, secure jobs versus something that is possibly hazardous. How do you weigh that?
Arnett: Well, really you can't. I mean, you'd get down to it. It depends what kind of sacrifice you want to make as a person who wants to go to work and make big money. I'm not saying that's right, but that's the thought of most people wanting to make a good living. But you know, there's some dark sides to it too.
Juravich: Yeah, Laura, you were at that meeting where I just played the clip of the mayor speaking and you were filming there Did the people in that meeting make you feel like the decision heart had already been made? They didn't really feel like they had to say or at that point. Did they still feel like? They had to stay
Paglin: No, I think at that point people really believed they could fight it, and as I said, I mean, this group and the village fought it for several years, but it just, as I've said, it was almost like they're ignored. And, you know, then they started digging that dump in 2020, as you said.
Juravich: Yeah, Gary, was there anything that the you or any other government official could you could you stop it? Could you say no or it was it was happening?
Arnett: You can say no, but it was happening. I mean, you know, you can't. It's hard to fight DOE.
Juravich: The U.S. Department of Energy.
Arnett: Yeah. But, uh, you know, it was, I think it was going to happen. I've got a lot of feedback from people that weren't real happy with it. And I don't have a lot control over that stuff. I'd be nice if you could, but I mean, from what I've gathered with through the EPA and everything, I'm not going to say it's safe, safe, but it's been approved. I can leave it at that whether that's good, bad, or indifferent.
Juravich: It's been approved. Yes. This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about Pike County Development with Gary Arnett, development director of the Pike County Office of Community and Economic Development, and also with us is Laura Paglen, documentary filmmaker, one of the producers and the director of "This is Pike County." Gary, I want to fast forward before we run out of time to the newest announcement for Pike County, SoftBank, the Japanese multinational investment holding company, is moving into Pike County If the plans happen as discussed, your county is now the future home of the world's largest data center. But first, there'll be a natural gas plant built to power the data center, from your perspective, what does this whole plan mean for Pike County?
Arnett: Well, it's kind of scary when you get down to this vast amount of people are going to come in here. I mean, we're not to build a lot of infrastructure or soft bank energy just to be able to handle everything. I mean this thing's going to be massive. I've not seen the full footprint of how big this is going to, I've seen part of Gas power plant It's going to be very interesting of how this thing all comes to past because, um, we just don't really have the infrastructure for them. Right now as we speak, I mean, I'm over Pike County sewer too. And, uh, we struggle with the infrastructure. Everything's so old and it's not just here. It's every
Juravich: Yeah. And you're also, I mean, when you talk about infrastructure, I mean you're talking about roads and sewers, but then you're probably also talking about housing, having grocery stores. I mean everything needed for these people, right?
Arnett: Oh, you know, people, yeah, I've talked to a lot of people. Yeah, I'd be honest with you, I don't know the answer of all this comes together and as many people it's gonna be in here. I mean, obviously they can't stay here in Pike County, all of them. We, like every place else, we don't have the housing. I mean every place I've ever been talking, you know housing was a big concern to any company coming in. But yeah, there's. We don't have any answers yet. I mean, I've sat in meetings and I get some information, but nothing that's gonna shake the world.
Juravich: Yeah. Do you feel like the plans that SoftBank, OpenAI, NVIDIA, you know, the U.S. Department of Energy, do you feel they're being transparent with you and other members of the Pike County government?
Arnett: To a degree, you know, these companies, I've worked with a lot of site collectors over the years. They keep everything close to their vest. I'm not sure why, but I mean, we're getting some good information, but we're not digging down deep.
Juravich: Laura, you, through making your documentary, you learned a lot about the community of Pike County. I mean, your documentary is called "This is Pike County" because you want to do express the people and, you know, how the people make the county. What do you think of whenever you think if you're possibly making part two of a documentary now that we have this new world's largest data center? What do you what do you predict this will mean for?
Paglin: Pike County. I don't know. I mean I honestly could never have predicted this because I think at the time the dump was being created and the the plant being cleaned up people were thinking well no one's gonna want to locate any industry here in some contaminated area so I mean it was just the furthest thing but I could maybe imagine something like the boom town of the 1950s sort of happening all over again but I mean that really that's another movie.
Juravich: Yeah, yeah, Gary, I mean, the population of Pike County will soon double with new workers to build this thing. Is that is that but is that exciting I like exciting and scary. I don't know how to what words to use.
Arnett: Actually, you nailed it. It is exciting, and it's also scary. I mean, I got people looking for camping sites now, properties, duplexes. You know, you always got to look at that. I mean, we've worked our high dint off getting companies to come in here for employee and now we've got, we got, I'm beating our door down and it's, it is scary, but it's a, it's going, I think it's gonna be a bigger boom than a fifties, at least we got a little bit more of what we had back then as for being able to develop properties with public sewer.
Juravich: Do you think that the companies who are involved in this are going to help Pike County pay for all this infrastructure, like they said? Are they gonna help you improve your sewer, build better roads, all of that?
Arnett: That's what I've been told. I've not seen any money yet. But, you know, we'll see, because if they don't, I mean, there's no way we can afford to upgrade all this infrastructure. I mean they're going to have to build the roads. They're going, you already got an AEP working for the transmission lines. They are buying property as we speak for the ways.
Juravich: Well, yes, I guess it's a stay tuned and we will see. We've been talking with Gary Arnett, Development Director of the Pike County Office of Community and Economic Development. Gary, thank you so much for your time today.
Arnett: Hey, thank you.
Juravich: And we've also been talking with Laura Paglin, documentary filmmaker and one of the producers and director of "This is Pike County." Laura, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. And "This is Pike County" is going to be shown on Friday, September 11th at 7 p.m. At the Wexner Center for the Arts. It's a part of the Cinema Columbus Film Festival. There's a promo code for all Pike County residents to attend the screening at half price. You can use the promo code Pike. So be sure to see the film. "This is Pike County," Friday, September 11th at 7 p.m. At the Wexner Center for the Arts. And you've been listening to All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. I'm Amy Juravich. Thanks for joining us.