This episode originally aired on Sept. 1, 2026.
In many U.S. cities, you'll find a partnership between civic leaders, local businesses, and nonprofits working to better the community.
Here in Ohio's capital city, it's known as the "Columbus Way."
However, economic challenges and social forces have some feeling that local nonprofits are losing their way.
We're talking about why it may be time to reimagine nonprofit leadership.
Guests:
- Mark Barbash, lecturer, Ohio State University John Glenn College of Public Affairs
- Karen Mozenter, CEO, Jewish Family Services/vice chair, Human Service Chamber
Transcript
This transcript is generated with AI. To ensure its accuracy, review the audio file.
Amy Juravich: Welcome to All Sides with Amy Juravich. When government leaders, local businesses, developers, and nonprofits work together to support the communities they serve, most cities call it a collaboration, a partnership, teamwork. In Ohio's capital city, it's called the Columbus Way. However, our guest is sounding the alarm that the Columbus way is failing the community. And he says there's a need to rethink the leadership at area nonprofits. Joining us this hour to discuss what a new Columbus way could be is Mark Barbash, a lecturer at the John Glenn College of Public Affairs. Mark is also the former director of development for the city of Columbus. Welcome to All Sides, Mark.
Mark Barbash: Amy, thanks for having me.
Juravich: So the headline for your opinion piece that you wrote in June for the Columbus Dispatched contains the phrase the Columbus way is failing as our community grows and problems grow. So how so? How is the Columbus Way failing our growing community?
Barbash: Well, I think what's really happening in central Ohio is we're obviously experiencing immense economic growth. You can't deny it, we're among the top 10 communities that are growing. But the atmosphere around us working with human service needs and human problems has not grown with the region. The growth is different, the growth is broader, it's much more regional, it's not entirely focused in Franklin County. And the Columbus Way, as an acronym, for people getting together, working with each other, and collaborating, needs an update. It needs a little bit more invigoration, needs a different kind of partnership. And part of this is not because of anything that we have done, but the change in the nature of the economy and the nature of human service needs.
Juravich: Now, your former boss, Mayor Coleman, who you were the director of development for him, he kind of invented the Columbus Way. I mean, he came up with the phrase. I interviewed him back in July, and he actually said that he first used the phrase, the Columbus way, at an event that was related to like post 9-11, and he was talking about like uniting together because of what happened on 9-Eleven and stuff like that. But then it evolved, and it became a way of doing business too. Do you feel like the Columbus way got? Way out of hand.
Barbash: Well, I don't want to talk about jargon. Yeah. What I do know is that the history of Columbus in collaboration, whether you call it the Columbus Way or anything else, is pretty long. I mean, the existence of the Community Shelter Board, for example, is a result of Mel Schottenstein and some of the churches getting together, bringing people together in a room and saying, we have a homeless problem. And so I think the challenge is is that. The region is growing faster than we are prepared to deal with it. And that has an impact on corporate giving, has an effect on the institutions like United Way and the Columbus Foundation, Columbus Partnership. And it certainly has an an impact on the work of the non-profit organizations who are stretched thin, even ignoring all the federal budget cuts that have taken place. And so part of my argument is we need to step back. And relook at how we serve these needs, which are very different than they were back in 2000. Yeah.
Juravich: Tell me a few ways that you think the Columbus way has succeeded though before we pick it apart What you know, what what's good some good stuff? I mean you mentioned
Barbash: Well, I think the Columbus Way has succeeded as representing a way to get everyone in a room, identify a problem, and then solve it. The historical challenge with the Columbus way is that it's been primarily transaction oriented. I mean, if you look at the development along the river, downtown, that was the result of everyone getting in the room and saying, we need to fix this downtown problem and make downtown more exciting. I made a reference to the community shelter board. Um, and. And you can see in the history the foundation of the Columbus Partnership was as a result of people saying we need to do something about the economy. So I think your point is well taken, and that is historically the concept behind the Columbus Way has done some really good things in central Ohio, including preparing us for this economic growth that I think that everyone was surprised at.
Juravich: Well, there are some misconceptions about the Columbus way because now I feel like it's considered like backroom deals and everyone's not at the table. What do you think of that?
Barbash: I think that the point to where we need to change, and I'm being deliberate, this is not about the Columbus way. This is about how we collaborate together. The challenge we're facing, number one, is our problems are more regional, number 1. They encompass six or seven counties. Okay, outside of just Columbus. Outside of just, and what that has done as a result has concentrated some of the poverty and health issues as people who do not have opportunities don't have the ability. To move out into what are more expensive areas for housing.
The second thing is the nature of corporate leadership has changed. We used to have, we still have lots of major corporate leaders who care about Central Ohio who are place-based. You look at whether it's a Bank One or Chase or Nationwide who got the connection between the success of their companies and the success in the region. The nature of growth in Central Ohio right now are. Faster corporations, more globally-oriented corporations, people who may never have lived in central Ohio. And so the way they participate is changing.
I think the philanthropic space is changing drastically. We're still getting major corporate contributions, but we're confronted with a thing called the big shift of dollars from the baby boomers, my generation, to the young kids. And the young kids are investing, but they're investing differently and in different ways, and actually with less engagement in the community. So there's a big trend, it's called the great wealth transfer. And these are the dynamics that are changing the atmosphere in central Ohio and in lots of other communities. Our advantage is we are economically successful, so we have other resources that are available.
Juravich: You're listening to All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about how we might rethink the Columbus way and why area nonprofits need to rethink how they lead to address communities' concerns. And we're talking with Mark Barbash, lecturer at the John Glenn College of Public Affairs. Before we dive more into what you're saying about the nonprofits and the nonprofit changes, I wanted to ask you one more question about the phrase the Columbus Way, because you wrote these two opinion pieces for the Columbus Dispatch in June. One was about the Columbus Way needing a refresh. The other was about leadership at the Columbus Partnership. But I have to ask, because on August 20th, City Council President Shannon Hardin announced that he's running for mayor. And in his speech, he said, the Columbus way has lost its way. So what do you make of that? Like, you know, you wrote these opinion pieces in June and he's, he's run for mayor and now he's on a Columbus way has lost it's way platform.
Barbash: Oh I don't know. I mean, I think that I like both Shannon and Mayor Ginther. They've both done really good things. It's an easy political phrase, to be perfectly honest. I think the message is our ways of collaborating have to change. We need to be more transparent. There need to more people at the table. And there need to ways of looking at problems and agreeing on what the challenges are so that everyone can kind of say, we're to solve this problem. Here. So whether it's the Columbus way, whether it civic collaboration, take your pick. I mean, I was involved in it. I mean I was development director for Mayor Coleman when he first got elected, and we spent a lot of time talking about it. What the Columbus Way is, is a recognition that you need to put everyone in the room, have the discussion, and then make decisions to get things done.
Juravich: Yeah. I mean, but wouldn't you say, you know, the current city council president is a part of the Columbus way, just like the mayor? Because when I interviewed Shannon Harden, you know, I asked him that and he admitted that he thought having all the arguments away from the public in the back room was the right way. And then presenting this fully formed plan to, you know like we're all united. He thought that was a good thing. And now he's rethinking that.
Barbash: Well, everyone is part of the the historical cowlings. I was part of the historical calendar because I worked for seven years for Mayor Coleman and got a chance to see the Columbus way in action. But the Columbus Way again is when you can get everyone in a room and say, let's recognize the problem and make a decision. So I'm not a big believer in political jargon. OK, to be perfectly honest. OK, well.
Juravich: That's interesting, because if you work for Mayor Coleman. All right, well, the other opinion piece that you wrote that was published in June was about leadership changes and the top spot specifically at the Columbus Partnership as an example of the region's civic leadership instability. So before we talk about that, I want to add what the Columbus partnership is, just in case our listeners don't know. The Columbus Partnership is a nonprofit member-based coalition. That represents a diverse set of industries and organizations in the Columbus region. So at its heart, the Columbus Partnership is a nonprofit, but now it is looking for its third leader in two years. Tell me why you're worried about the Columbus partnership.
Barbash: Well, what I'm worried about is the role that the Columbus Partnership played, particularly in economic development, was as a convening place where everyone was at the table and they said, we need to do something about it. And that's what created One Columbus, which is one of the best economic development organizations in the state and the country. Right now, the Columbus Partnership is going through an evolution like every organization. When it first started, it was a gang of 15. Now it's a gang 81. That's a lot, which I think is good because it broadens the representation, but it's awfully hard to get consensus when you've got 81 people. Every organization like this goes through staffing and leadership transitions and I take Jason at his word that he moved on for family reasons. And so the fact that there's change taking place is okay.
I think the situation with partnership though. Is that it's a perfect place to kind of help to try to bring people together to get some agreement on what the challenges are. And I wanna also be really clear that what I'm thinking about is not replacing existing organizations. What it is is putting in place a way that you can look at the problems, everyone looks at the facts and the data and says, these are the problems we need to deal with. You see that a lot in housing right now. What's going on in housing in Central Ohio is incredibly exciting. And you see people being given the facts about the lack of both affordable housing and workforce housing. There needs to be a way for people to get together and have those difficult discussions.
Juravich: So, I wanted to say that we did invite the Columbus Partnership to take part in the conversation today and they were not able to join us. We were hoping to talk to the interim leader, Corinne Berger, a retired, well-known banking executive with more than 30 years in leadership in this region. But it didn't work out to have Corinne on. But. Is she the type of person who you would hope maybe would take over this group? I mean, 30 years of local experience and leadership, you know, like she's the interim, but you know is that what you're looking for?
Barbash: If there is a track record of successful and failed community leadership. The successful folks are folks who know Columbus and Central Ohio well enough to understand the culture and the community. And when people come in from another community, it takes them a while to kind of figure out how you move the pieces and who you need to talk to. When I first came, we moved to Columbus in 1984, but I've been working in Columbus since 1981 as a consultant. And back in those days, you could count on two hands. If you talk to these 10 people, you can get something done. Understanding those connections for a community becomes really important. So, Corinna and I've had a chance to talk with her and I think she's spending a good amount of time just trying to understand things from her historical perspective and the perspective of where we're going. And so she might be, I think it's her decision if she wants to, and the partnerships board to whether she wants stay on.
Juravich: And un-retire, she just retired. Yeah, we've all retired.
Barbash: We've all retired five times. I've retired three times so far. I'm sure you have, yeah. And so I think what she is doing now is getting a lay of the land and helping the partnership understand what's new in the sector. I think particularly in a focus on housing, I think there's a big understanding at the partnership that that's a critical issue for Central Ohio.
Juravich: You wrote in one of your pieces in The Dispatch that there were four forces straining the old model of the Columbus way, and I wanted to focus in for a second on the third point you made, which is philanthropy is more dispersed than in the past. You say it's not less generosity, but it's less aligned generosity. Tell me what that means.
Barbash: Alignment means, what I was just saying a minute ago, everyone's together, they look at the data and they understand what the problems are. And then each organization in their own way moves to help solve those problems. Because all of this is caging around us, because of the great wealth transfer, because of different ways that new donors are contributing and getting involved, particularly online. There's less of the ability to kind of say, let's get a recognition of what the problems are. And I think that's one of the changes that needs to take place. And that is the discussions together to look at the facts and identify what the problem are. So a lot of this is, number one, brought on by the fact that we are so incredibly economically healthy, which is incredibly exciting for me as a long-term resident of Columbus. But the other side of the picture has to be dealt with as well.
Juravich: Okay, so we're economically healthy. We have the money. But you I mean, you said before that the way the money is being dispersed and who who's getting it and who it's being given to and from, that's what's changing. So is it is it corporate money that's changing? Or is it grant money? Like, what kind of money is changing?
Barbash: Well, it's all of the above. I mean, there's still major corporate support of human service needs. If you look at the data, it has been maintained. What is happening though is that each organization is making a decision based on their own priorities. We don't have this high level view of the Central Ohio calendars that are taking place. That's a big problem. To get something done. I've done a good amount of work in Cleveland And one of the things that the Cleveland area has is the gun foundation and the Cleveland foundation who collaborate together Particularly an organization called the fund for our economic future Steps back and says let's identify the problems and everyone figures out the role that they want to play we used We used to have a mechanism that did that in Central, Ohio. We don't have that now and
Juravich: But you mentioned Cleveland. Cleveland also is a much older city. It has a lot of older money than Columbus does. We don't have the old money. We don't have the 200 year old money, do you think? Do we?
Barbash: No, we don't. I mean, obviously we're a younger community, but. I guess we could wish we had the old money, but we have to deal with what we have. Well, I mean you have what you have. Yeah. I mean the reality of life. Yeah. What Cleveland has demonstrated though is the ability to identify a challenge and have everyone contribute in their own way to it. There's another factor that's across the country having a big, causing a challenge to this, and that's what's called donor advised funds. Donor advised funds are essentially. Individuals who through the skills of the Columbus Foundation have their money managed by the Columbus foundation, but they are investing in what they want to invest in. Nobody wants to challenge that. What I'm arguing is that for us to deal with these bigger problems that we are going to have, there needs to be alignment and a recognition of specifically what the challenges are.
Juravich: We are talking about area nonprofits needing to rethink how they lead to address community concerns and how that might change and make a new Columbus way. We're talking with Mark Barbash, a lecturer at the John Glenn College of Public Affairs. He's staying with us. Coming up, we're going to talk to the head of a local nonprofit about how they're dealing with all the changes that they face. That is when All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.
You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. From layoffs to closing their doors, these have been tough times for nonprofits. In addition, eroding federal funds as well as a revolving door at the leadership level locally is contributing to a job crisis in the nonprofit sector. We're talking about what needs to be done to meet the challenges facing local nonprofits. Still with us is Mark Barbash, lecturer at the John Glenn College of Public Affairs. Mark is also the former Director of Development for the City of Columbus, and he serves as Board Chair for the nonprofit Short North Stage. Thanks for being here, Mark.
Barbash: You're welcome. Thank you.
Juravich: And joining us now is Karen Mozenter, CEO of Jewish Family Services and Vice Chair of the Human Service Chamber of Franklin County. Welcome to All Sides, Karen.
Karen Mozenter: Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
Juravich: So Karen, what has it been like running a nonprofit in recent years in this economy, in this political climate? How are you feeling? It's funny, I've been.
Mozenter: Saying in the future they will look back at the CEOs of, you know, the history of the CEOs of Jewish Family Services and they'll say, oh I remember Karen, she was the crisis CEO.
Juravich: Oh no, because I took off.
Mozenter: Because I took on this role right before the pandemic and then all of the things that have been happening in the last year and a half, all the changes that are affecting our ability to do the work and continue our impact have been very challenging. But I would say one of the thing that has made it better, and I wouldn't say easier but definitely better, is the human service chamber.
Juravich: Okay, so you run Jewish Family Services, but you're also on the board of Human Service Chamber. Tell me what Human Service chamber does for nonprofits in Central Ohio. The Human Service Chamber.
Mozenter: Of Franklin County is a member organization. We have about 250 members that are all human service agencies. And they are, so they provide services to humans, to people who are facing a variety of life challenges. And our members range from one person shops with almost no budgets to... Organizations that employ thousands and have budgets of up to 100 million and more. And offering a wide range of services. So we are helping people with connect to basic needs like food, housing, transportation. We're providing employment services and training to help people get jobs. Our agencies provide childcare so people can go to work and elder care. They help seniors age in place. We provide financial counseling. Medical care, health care, both for physical and mental health, so a wide variety of services. And one thing that the Chamber brings to us is the ability to come together to speak with one voice and to see how interconnected all those services are.
Juravich: So as being a board member of the Human Service Chamber of Franklin County, you're exposed to a lot of different nonprofits. I mean, you just mentioned, I mean there's 250 of them, that's a lot. Is there a common thread of what they all need help with right now in this weird time?
Mozenter: Well, I would say the common thread is always funding for human service agencies, and especially right now because we have seen in the last year and a half huge funding cuts. The biggest chunk has been from federal money with millions lost and a shift in priorities for what's funded. Really, the whole kind of social contract that has been in place for decades of... Human services being at the ground level helping, like working side by side with government, being funded to help people at the ground level is changing dramatically right now.
Juravich: And what do you think about, you know, when you think about the general public, like someone, you know, someone listening right now, hearing us talk about the human service chamber of Franklin County having 250 members, is there a misconception from some people that are, that people helped by nonprofits aren't doing enough to help themselves? Like, do you hear that? I do hear that and it is a source of great frustration.
Mozenter: To me and to our members because it's not what I see. I see people who, for a variety of reasons, are in a challenging moment in life. They have a health issue that cropped up unexpectedly. They were laid off from their job. They have aging parents and they're trying to figure out how to navigate those changes. Now these are people who want to be working, want to participating, but may need help just in the moment facing those challenges or stabilizing so that they can...
Juravich: Move forward. They're people with people problems, yeah. Mark, I wanna bring you back into the conversation. We've talked with the Human Service Chamber of Franklin County before on this show. We've talk with other nonprofit leaders. We've done shows about nonprofits several times. But do you think there's a belief that the mission of some nonprofits overlap too much? Maybe there should be more consolidation, help with resources. What are your thoughts on that?
Barbash: I mean it's a great question and I once had a mentor who taught me a lot and he said when you need time to think about the answer to a question say it's great question. It is a great question. It is very easy to set up a nonprofit these days. It is much more difficult to have the infrastructure that you need to provide direct services and be able to measure that performance. So a lot of work, I'm a big fan of the human service chamber which is helping nonprofits understand ways of collaborating together.
There is a big issue regarding funding of overhead. I think there is not a recognition on the part of some funders that funding of overhead. Is important to be able to the side of providing direct services. So reorganize, mergers, consolidation, I think they're all those kinds of things. Same are on the tables when you have corporate challenges. I think though that there needs to be a little better understanding of how you measure performance, number one, and measuring performance at a higher level.
You mentioned Shorter on stage, of which I'm proudly the board chair. We just, I got to put an ad in, we just finished a great run of Pippin and we're going to be starting Sweeney Todd in a few weeks. We're very excited about that. But we spend a good amount of our time thinking about what's the impact of what we do beyond just putting on a great performance. And the challenge is that not every non-profit organization has the ability to do that kind of measurement. And when funders say show us how you show us your impact That's different than showing us what you did. And it's expensive and it's challenging. And the nonprofits are going through the same evolution as every other small organization does. One of the challenges though, and I'm one of the pieces of data that I think I was given, it may have been from Michael Quarry, that there are 12,500 nonprofits in central Ohio. It's a huge number. Of those, 159 of them have resources essentially over $10 million.
Juravich: Mmm, so a very small percentage
Barbash: Yeah, and they're all the names that you think about. And they are leaders, but there are lots of non-profit, of the community, but lots of nonprofit organizations are very small with a very fixed mission.
Juravich: So Karen, the words consolidation, merger, those are scary for small nonprofits. Those are, you know, even if they know in their heart of hearts that it might help things, it's still hard to make that change. What do you hear from the members of the Human Service Chamber of Franklin County about consolidation and mergers and whether or not to consider it? Well, certainly the...
Mozenter: Conversations are happening and I I want to take a minute to speak to one thing that Mark said which was this idea of funding overhead yeah and to push back on the term overhead because and I know you agree with this based on what I've seen of your writing but overhead is the cost of doing business just like any other business yeah so the thought that that shouldn't be funded is you have to pay people to run the you have to pay people around profit yeah and our funding is very constrained but that That's a different. And how it can be used, unlike many companies.
But I would say back to the question of merging, consolidating, that those conversations are certainly happening. There are also a variety of other steps that our members are taking right now to reduce costs, to leverage resources. So organizations are reducing, divesting, or eliminating programs because of funding cuts or because of available resources, especially in certain areas that have lost funding, like programs addressing diversity, equity, inclusion, programs for refugees and immigrants in particular. Organizations are reducing or eliminating space. They have laid off hundreds of employees or are not filling open positions. Some have shut down or merged, and we're also leveraging resources and expanding our through other creative measures, co-locating.
Big brothers and big sisters on the Godman Guild just moved into space together and are sharing operational expenses. Lutheran Social Services divested one part of its work because in the belief that others were better positioned to do that work and it enabled them to focus more on other areas of their mission where they felt they could have more impact. In our case at Jewish Family Services, we are delivering a lot more community-based services with partners. So we're delivering services. At libraries. We're partnering with the Mid-Ohio Food Collective and OSU College of Nursing in the city of Columbus to deliver services at the Eastland Prosperity Center, which will be opening later this year. We're delivering services at Columbus Metropolitan Housing Authority locations and Woda Cooper, affordable housing properties. So there's a lot of creativity and innovation that's going into cutting costs while also being able to continue delivering services.
Juravich: That people need. This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about some of the challenges facing nonprofits and we are talking with Karen Mozenter, CEO of Jewish Family Services and Vice Chair of the Human Service Chamber of Franklin County. We're also talking with Mark Barbash, lecturer at the John Glenn College of Public Affairs. Karen, I know one thing that you wanted to emphasize is you have a concern that there's a lack of recognition of the economic impact of nonprofits. Tell me more about that. Nonprofits are a part of, Mark talked in the first segment about how Columbus is doing so well economically and we're growing. We're one of the fastest growing cities in the Midwest. We have the money. So talk about the economic impact of a nonprofit.
Mozenter: Yeah, I like to say we are, we the human services are not just do-gooders, although we do a lot of good. We are economic engines. And the community really needs us to be healthy and strong and to be able to provide services if we're going to continue on this growth trajectory that is predicted for central Ohio that we've been seeing and that we want to continue. So, when people's basic needs are met... When they have housing, when they have food, when they have transportation, when their mental and physical health is strong, when kids can be successful at school, when parents have child care or elder care so they can go to work, when people have access to training and to employment services so that they can get on a career path that offers them opportunity, when older adults can age in place.
All of that is the work that we do, helping people do all those things. And it also brings all kinds of dollars back into the local economy and prevents people from relying on public resources, people from going to the emergency room for their health care. There are so many economic impacts. As Mark said before though, it's not always easy to show that type of impact. I know as one of the things we do at Jewish Family Services is employment services. That's one area where we can show the impact. Again, our last fiscal year, we helped 600 people get jobs that generated $25 million in wages in just one year, and that was on $3.3 million in workforce investments.
Juravich: That's a huge ROI. Yeah, Mark, talk to me about your research and what you found about the economic impact of nonprofits and how they contribute to this local economy. Well,
Barbash: Well, I want to second what Karen said, particularly in the area of workforce development. We're experiencing, because of Central Ohio's growth, huge demand for a skilled workforce. And the growth patterns in the United States are starting to level out. So if we're going to meet the needs of companies that are coming in, we have to bring more people into that space where they can get a job and get the training, and get a great job. There are lots of folks who need that kind of training, but they also need to have a basic safety net. So in fact, they know they've got childcare. They know they got healthcare so they can get into some of these spaces. And so there's a direct connection between meeting the human service needs and filling the employment needs of growing companies in central Ohio.
The work I did on my paper, originally I interviewed about 35 leaders and activists and frontline people. For the work that I did in my original research which is for an organization called the KitKat Club. That's a cute name, okay. It is. Guys and Dolls. And what I found was to my, I started this thing thinking it's just an issue about federal money. But when I really started talking to people, what I was hearing from people is we're in a new era. We've got this growth, but we're not prepared to deal on the other side. And part of the dynamic of what we're dealing with is that Growth will define Central Ohio's economy. Our ability to meet the needs of the common good needs to grow along with that growth.
Juravich: I wanted to mention, you know, earlier this year, a local nonprofit that a lot of people had heard of and cared about called Local Matters. It closed after 18 years. And I think that surprised a lot people. I mean, Karen, do you worry about other nonprofits going out of business?
Mozenter: I do We do, especially knowing the growth that we're seeing. Back to your question about merging and acquisitions and is there too much overlap in services. Those kinds of solutions that some people are recommending don't really recognize the growth that were seeing and that were expecting. More people means more people will need human services. So it's We can't just merge our way out of this situation right now.
Juravich: What, Mark, what do you think of whenever you heard that local nonprofit local matters closed after 18 years? What was the first thought that popped into your head?
Barbash: Well, my first thought is that the nonprofit business is not easy. I mean, nonprofit is not an organization that sells something and makes something. It depends on the charity, literally and figuratively, of corporate and individuals. And sometimes you're trying to raise money for something that other people don't want to support. And that's the challenge. We face that in the arts right now. The arts is having real challenges raising funding. And it's also not a matter of companies giving. Companies are giving, everyone needs to be aligned. So it doesn't surprise me.
I, in fact, was on the board of directors of an organization that chose to shut down called Community Research Partners, and we shut down because the funding model didn't work. And so there are always gonna be situations like that. There are always going to be funding situations. I think the obligation of us as both taxpayers and citizens is to identify the critical human needs and find ways that we can support those in a way that meets. Where citizens are.
Juravich: Are you saying, when you say the corporate money is there, are you meaning that the corporate money is going to these funds at the Columbus Foundation instead of individual organizations? Or are you meeting that individuals need to give more because there's plenty of corporate money? Like, what do you mean there?
Barbash: Well, corporate monies don't solve the problem. It's a combination of corporate and government, philanthropic, wealthy individuals, and government funding. I say the corporate money is there because in fact those numbers have gone up on a relative basis, but they still were always only 10% of the, give or take 10, 12% of total giving. That's where I came back and the bright light that went on when I was talking to people, that the question is alignment. Alignment's a little easier when you put 15 people in a room, it's a lot harder when you put 81 people in the room. I think the other thing that's going on here is the lack of transparency. I've worked for government for a long time and I know when you work for government you tend to want to hold things closely. I don't think we need to hold thing that closely and I think there needs to be more transparency in how our civic organizations are making decisions and allocating dollars. And there need to be more people at the table.
Juravich: More than 81 people at the table. Table?
Barbash: A different table? You're talking about a different table. It's not a number. Yeah. It's who are you representing in the community? Are you, do you have folks who are being impacted as well as do you have new folks who've moved into central Ohio? It's a, it's just a variety. It's just a variety.
Juravich: The right people at the table. Yeah, I don't-
Barbash: Yeah, I don't like the word the right people, but a breadth of people.
Juravich: Ah, a variety of people at the table. Yes, thank you. All right. We are speaking with Mark Barbash, lecturer at the John Glenn College of Public Affairs, and we're also speaking with Karen Mozenter, CEO of Jewish Family Services and vice chair of the Human Service Chamber of Franklin County. Both are staying with us and coming up, we're gonna continue our conversation about the challenges facing nonprofits in central Ohio. We're gonna talk more about staffing and about leadership. That is when All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.
You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. Layoffs, mergers, closings, and changes in leadership are some of the reasons nonprofits in the region have been garnering headlines recently. The instability at some of these organizations has some concerns, whether the Columbus Way, a collaboration of civic, business, and nonprofit leadership to support the communities they serve, has lost its way. We're talking about the challenges facing nonprofits in the region this hour, and re-imagining the Columbus way from a nonprofit perspective. Still with us is Mark Barbash, lecturer at the John Glenn College of Public Affairs. Mark is also the former director of development for the city of Columbus, and serves as board chair for the nonprofit, the Short North Stage. Thanks again for your time today, Mark.
Barbash: Happy to be here.
Juravich: And Karen Mosenter is the CEO of Jewish Family Services and Vice Chair of the Human Service Chamber of Franklin County. Thanks for being here today, Karen. Thanks for having me, Anne. So- Amy. That's okay, yeah. Blast from the past, yes. Anne sat in this chair for a long time, yes Karen, in the first part of the show, we talked with Mark about an opinion piece that he wrote for the Dispatch back in June and it was called The Columbus Way is Failing as our community and problems grow. So, Mark said it was time for a change in the Columbus way. What do you think? I do think that.
Mozenter: Columbus Way, I think we as a community spend a lot of time talking about the Columbus Way. There's a lot about patting ourselves on the back for what we've achieved, but you know every, and and that's valid, but as every business leader, every leader of an organization knows the world changes, circumstances change, we have to continually evolve how we address the needs of this community. And the Columbus way needs to evolve as well. And I agree with Mark that it makes sense looking at our growth, looking at what's happening in our community right now, the increased community needs, and kind of the inequality of who needs help. If we want to continue that growth, we have to take a look at how we do things and make sure that we have an inclusive table that brings voices and different perspectives
Juravich: community solutions. Let's talk about leadership for a minute. We talked earlier that Columbus Partnership is a nonprofit looking for its third leader in two years. We have the upcoming retirement of Matt Habosh from the Mid-Ohio Food Collective, Tom Katzenmaier from the Greater Columbus Arts Council retired. I know there's more names that I could list, but this is a lot of institutional knowledge, someone who understands this community, leaving or retiring. What is the Human Service Chamber of Franklin County? Do to help with when big turnovers happen.
Mozenter: Well, we've had a lot of turnover among chamber members as well in the last few years, but we also have so much strength in our sector and a lot rising talent. And I would say we've built a lot of muscle through the pandemic, through these last couple of years, a lot talent in how to innovate, how to deal with crisis, how to move forward and face these challenges. So... So we work on that. The Human Service Chamber does do a lot to bring us all together to help emerging leaders navigate what's happening. There are a lot of shared services that are available to Human Service chamber members. So that could be about financial services, about communications, about fundraising, about organizational strengths. We offer wellness activities for the staff of human service agencies. Of really a variety of supports and also opportunities to gather for emerging leaders to work closely alongside leaders who've been in the trenches for longer.
Juravich: Mark, talk to me about your thoughts on legacy leadership within nonprofits in Columbus. Do we need seasoned leaders who are from Columbus? Can we bring people in from the outside? What can we pay them, right? We have to pay them to lead these nonprofits, right. So, yeah.
Barbash: You know what's really interesting, that's a great question. We don't look askance when a big corporate leader makes a big salary. When a non-profit leader, admittedly, to be really clear, they're using taxpayers' dollars because of the tax deduction and the government grants. But when a non profit leader who is doing really well makes a bit salary, they're all over the front pages of the newspapers. And one of the challenges is because of the limitation on resources. Attracting talented people to the leadership and the front line management of the non-profits is really challenging because we all have to have our lives and we have to be able to pay the mortgage and buy the groceries and things like that. So that's the first challenge. There's a really direct connection between some of the funding limitations and the ability to attract talent.
I think we also need to find a way to bring the legacy leaders together with the new leaders. I one of the things I've talked about in my paper is the fact that a lot of the central Ohio growth is coming from outside of central Ohio, that we've got new people moving into town who don't see that connection to place as part of their mission. And I think they get it, but I think that they're dealing with funders from someplace else, investors from someplace else, and global issues. I think we need to kind of bring together... The legacy leaders and the new corporate leaders to kind of say, what do I need to learn about success?
Juravich: Yeah, you mentioned wanting a mentoring program. You want people, like if someone new comes in, there should be some sort of mechanism where people who know this community teach them.
Barbash: Yeah, yeah, part of my work, I've been doing a lot of research into how other communities approach this. And the last thing Columbus hates is to have someone tell you, someone from out of town can tell you more. Yeah. But there are some programs out there that bring together new, new corporate leaders and up and coming corporate leaders, leadership Columbus, for example, there's a leadership of Ohio who kind of bring these people into the, into, into the understanding, understanding the history of central Ohio. Is really important because we exist because people were able to look further into the future than the typical elected official. And I think we need to kind of now start looking forward again.
Juravich: Karen, any thoughts on that? I mean, maybe you have thoughts on paying leadership what they're worth, too. Because I mean if you have 30 years of experience as a leader, you're not gonna work for $40,000, right? And a nonprofit with hundreds of employees is not gonna hire a 25-year-old to lead it, right. And so how do you tell, when people say to you, because they can look up salaries and they say, oh, this person makes too much, like what do you say? Nonprofits run complex.
Mozenter: Businesses. And we face challenges that are unlike what the private sector faces. So yes, I believe it's important for, you know, people don't work for nonprofits, though, for the money. They want to be in a place where they can have impact. But having said that, But mission can't come before.
Juravich: You being
Mozenter: able to afford your house, yeah. Right, we need to have talent, especially at this time in such a challenging environment, we need to be able to attract attract top talent to these jobs. And that's at the leadership level.
Juravich: And all the way through our organizations. This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about some of the challenges facing nonprofits and we're talking with Mark Barbash lecturer at the John Glenn College of Public Affairs and Karen Mozenter, CEO of Jewish Family Services and Vice Chair of the Human Service Chamber of Franklin County. There's always that mantra for a nonprofit, do more with less, but that's not sustainable. I mean, do you ever talk about doing less with less?
Mozenter: Sadly, some of that is happening. I mean, there are many organizations, ours included, that have had to shut down programs just because the funding has ended, but we are continually asked to do more with less. For years and years, we would see flat funding across many of our public grants. And I would say to the funders, you know, everything costs more. We would get news like, isn't this great? The funding is flat, you know that's a reduction, actually, because costs have gone up. We have to pay our people well, we have to give raises, we have continuing to do the work, continuing to more with less is very, very challenging, especially now when needs are increasing dramatically because of a lot of external forces.
Juravich: What are your thoughts, Mark, on doing less with less?
Barbash: Oh, what she said, I completely agree with Karen. I mean, I think it's not just that the funding is flat, but that the funders are expecting impact that grows, and that you can't grow your impact if you're getting the same level of money, and because of cost increases, that's actually a reduction. And again, I just completely agree. The need is growing, the funding's flat, and there has to be a way of breaking that gap. Our history at Central, I mean, look at the work that CAPA's doing for the arts community. I know at Short North Stage, we have a partnership with CAPA on HR, on accounting, on fiscal, on all those things that we can't afford to hire a smart financial person. We've got great support from CAPA. That's not a new model, and it's an easy model. You just have to get everyone in the room.
Juravich: So instead of the short north stage having its own HR person and finance person, you pay CAPA to help you with some of that stuff. That's exactly right, that's exactly. We only have two minutes left, so I wanna end on a positive note. Each of you just tell me, looking toward the future, I know things are still hard and the federal funding is not there and we're gonna, but end me on a postive note. Mark, you wanna go first?
Barbash: Well, my whole discussion started on the positive, and that is our region is growing But so are the needs in the in the region and we ought to be in a position to capitalize on that economic growth by Doing a better job providing resources to nonprofit organizations who are serving the human needs Which that growth is dependent upon meeting those human needs
Juravich: And Karen, what's your positive note?
Mozenter: I would say that human services are experts at innovating and collaborating and that supporting the human services is really an investment. It's not about charity. It's about an investment that helps all of us in the region as a whole.
Juravich: Well, yeah, I have more time. You can give me one more positive note. Go ahead. I didn't say. For another conversation, we can talk.
Mozenter: About all the models of collaboration and partnership that are out there on various issues where human services are part of addressing some of our region's most serious issues around housing, employment services, digital skills training, healthcare, aging. So there are a lot of ways we're already out there innovating and that's the work that needs to be supported and needs to continue for our region to have the growth though. That we anticipate.
Juravich: Alright, we'll do another show on the innovation and collaboration of nonprofits. We have been speaking with Karen Mozenter, CEO of Jewish Family Services and Vice Chair of the Human Service Chamber of Franklin County. Thank you for your time today, Karen. Thank you. And we've also been speaking to Mark Barbash, lecturer at the John Glenn College of Public Affairs. Thanks for joining us today, Mark. Happy to be here. And you have been listening to All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. I'm Amy Juravich. Thanks for joining us.