The hormone testosterone is figuring prominently in conversations about the “manosphere.”
Politicians and influencers are turning to testosterone and peptides in pursuit of an idealized masculine image.
On this hour of All Sides, we’re talking about the national obsession with testosterone.
We’ll meet actor and screenwriter Brock Yurich. His movie Test, filmed here in Ohio, follows one man’s personal battle with steroid abuse.
Guests:
- Dr. Benjamin Bring, board-certified physician in family and sports medicine, Ohio Health
- Brock Yurich, actor, model, screenwriter of the film Test
Transcript
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Amy Juravich: Welcome to All Sides with Amy Juravich. GLP-1s have become a popular weight loss drug. However, the P in GLP stands for peptides, which are gaining popularity as a muscle building supplement. Videos of politicians and influencers working out and promoting their use of peptides and testosterone have been gaining traction. But how safe are they? And what should we know about them? Here to address what we should know about the use of these supplements is Dr. Ben Bring, a board certified physician in family and sports medicine at Ohio Health. He's also the medical director for the Arnold Sports Festival. Welcome to All Sides, Ben.
Dr. Ben Bring: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Juravich: So, are peptides and testosterone the same thing?
Bring: Uh, not necessarily. So, uh, peptides, um, we hear this term a lot and I look back to my days as a biology major at Dennis University and we learned about all the different amino acids, so we have 20 different amino acids when you start to put the amino acids together, that's what makes a peptide and so our body actually creates peptides normally. So, um going back to the GLPs, I know you had talked about those earlier. Um, that called glucagon like peptide. So our body actually normally secretes that out of our intestines. And with some of the newer medications that have come up, we've synthetically been able to put those peptides together and they last longer. So the ones that we normally secrete only hang around for a little bit, whereas the new ones that make, those can hang out much longer.
Whereas testosterone, so our body, especially in men, I'll talk about men, for testosterone, it's naturally produced. So we have a thing in our brain called the hypothalamic pituitary axis. So how does our- HPA. Yeah, I'll just say HPA, so it's a way that our brain communicates with other organs in our body. And so we naturally produce testosterone as we, you know, as we go through our growth spurts and as we through puberty. But, you, know, in men, especially over 40, our testosterone levels tend to drop as we get older. And so that's where testosterone replacements really come into the view here.
Juravich: Okay, so because of like the time period we're living in we've become a more performative culture There's this increased focus on masculinity in some sectors How often are people now asking you more questions about testosterone and peptides both?
Bring: Yeah. You know, I take care of a lot of men, uh, over the age of 30 and this comes up every day. We, you know, as a, uh I'm 42 now, so I hopefully can relate to them. One thing I say is, you, you're not going to feel like you did when you were 20. You know? As we go on after age 40, we lose about a percent of muscle mass every year. And so that's just a normal part of aging.
But what I tell people is, uh especially nowadays ways that we can reduce that muscle loss, uh or the three things I was talking about three things. Making sure we're getting seven hours of sleep at least every single night, cold, dark rooms, uninterrupted sleep. Very rare for that to happen. We live in an age of smartphones and TVs and World Cup. Everyone's staying up late for those World Cup games.
And the other two things are good diet and exercise. As a society, we are under training pretty drastically. Most of the sports medicine societies recommend 150 minutes a week of exercise and then eating mostly whole foods, things that aren't ultra processed. Trying not to drink calories. So those are the biggest things I try to tell people to maintain your muscle mass. And then honestly, the other thing I tell all my patients is everybody should be lifting weights, regardless of, unless there's a few contraindications, meaning you shouldn't do it, but everybody should lifting weights and that's gonna help prevent that muscle loss too.
Juravich: Okay, but what about the people who want the quick fix the magic the magic pill because that's why they're asking you about these right?
Bring: Of course. So the American College of Physicians put out a consensus statement that we really only should be treating people that have true what we call hypogonadism, basically where they don't have morning erections, they don't, or they have decreased sexual function as well. We can also do what's called a total testosterone level. We check this usually in the mornings between 8 and 10 a.m. The reason for that is that's when our testosterone levels are the highest. And that allows us to make sure we have an accurate diagnosis.
Unfortunately, there's a lot of, I'll just say kind of like boutique medicine out there where we're over treating men for testosterone. And what that can lead to is a lot different complications. Sometimes even infertility can actually create gynecomastia or breast tissue in men. Can also have a couple of other metabolic side effects although they've debunked some of those recently with a few studies. But the prostate's another organ that can be adversely affected too.
Juravich: What do you think of these influencers that you see on social media? I mean, you know, they run the gamut. They're former athletes. I mean in some cases they're politicians. They are telling men, they're touting the use of peptides and saying it'll help you build muscle and be stronger. Are you concerned about this?
Bring: Yeah, and mostly because we don't know what we don t know. So this is where as a physician, um, you know, everything that I do, I try to look at the evidence. What is, we always try to practice evidence-based medicine. So it's really important to look studies and trials. Unfortunately, there's really no, what we, the best type of trial we want is a double-blinded randomized controlled trial. So that means if you're the patient and I'm the doctor, neither one of us know what you're getting, but you know behind the scenes, the scientists kind of know.
And there's been no studies on some of these newer peptides. Now I will say the GLPs have been extensively studied, especially in our patients that suffer from obesity, obstructive sleep apnea, type two diabetes, high blood pressure, the chronic diseases, those have been extensive studied. But some of the newer ones, I'll throw out the BPC 157, that's been the one that gets mentioned, or the Wolverine stack, so to speak. It sounds really cool.
Juravich: Is that its name? Oh wow.
Bring: If you look up the Wolverine stack, that's what everyone talks about. Unfortunately, there are just no studies on that.
Juravich: And GLP-1s are also FDA-approved, right, so peptides are not. If you're getting them, you're kind of getting them as supplements, which are not as regulated by the FDA, right?
Bring: Yes, and that's where it can be a little bit dangerous because you don't know the source of what you're injecting into your body. And I tell my patients this all the time, you know, we rely heavily on the FDA to make sure that what we're giving patients is exactly what you want it to be. And unfortunately, there's a lot of online stores now where you can just buy peptides, you can buy all kinds of things, and none of it is regulated.
And if you look on some of the labels, it'll say for research purposes only. Or not for human consumption. And that kind of helps them get away with, like some of the false claims that they're having. And I always say this, I'm not anti-peptides. I think, but I am pro-science. Like we need a lot more scientific studies on this to prove some of claims that they're throwing out there.
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about what you should know about peptides and testosterone with Dr. Ben Bring, board certified physician in family and sports medicine at Ohio Health. And he's also the medical director of the Arnold Sports Festival. So women have lower doses of testosterone, levels drop as men age, which you just mentioned. But what's the difference between decreasing testosterone just due to aging naturally versus like actually having a medical condition? Because you can't you have a medical condition of low testosterone.
Bring: Yeah, absolutely. And that's where the lab testing can come in. And we also look at symptoms. Those are probably the two biggest things. And the hardest thing as a doctor is to tell patients when they come in and they are experiencing fatigue or decreased muscle mass, or they're just saying, I don't have as much energy as I used to have. Those are not necessarily indications for treatment. And that usually what I tell them. And I just pull up the guidelines and the recommendations because We wanna try to stay away from treating symptoms only, and we wanna make sure we're actually diagnosing and treating the underlying causes.
Juravich: Do over-the-counter testosterone boosters, like the ones you can see promoted online by these retired athletes and stuff, I mean, do they work?
Bring: Long story short, no. I wish I could say, you know, there's, and again, with supplements, a lot of these are unregulated by the FDA too. It was interesting. So I teach, my main job is teaching resident physicians. So we're always looking at studies and things, you know to try to make sure we're on top of our game when we talk to our patients. They've done studies on supplements.
There was a large study done a few years ago that looked at 42 different companies and they actually ran a PCR analysis on what they said was inside their medications. Only two of the companies had a hundred percent of what they said was actually in there. And so, yeah, so, and that's where it can be a little bit dangerous because there's, as you know, the supplement market is in the tens of billions of dollars. There's a lot of money to be made. I'm always wary. I always tell my patients, if someone will say to you, hey, this is something your doctor won't tell you, now buy my supplement. I always worry about that because there is not always evidence to back it up.
Juravich: Yeah, I mean, I've heard of the phrase dirty supplements. So is that what you're talking about where you don't know what ingredients are actually in it?
Bring: Correct, yeah, and unfortunately most of them are not regulated by the FDA, and a lot of times we have no idea what's in them.
Juravich: Right, and the company would hate that I called them dirty supplements, right? Sure, yes.
Bring: Yes, but you know, there are some companies that will do third party testing. So this is where I'll say, where they'll do unbiased third parties where they will actually show that they can prove what's in their product is legitimate. So I always say, try to use companies that do those things. And you know I'm not against supplements either. I just, again, I'm pro science.
I think that it's really important that we're giving supplements that are extensively studied and are actually what they say they are. So for example, I recommend, you know, vitamin D supplementation, especially in. Us Ohioans, we don't get as much vitamin D and sunlight as we probably should in the wintertime. It helps reduce falls, it helps with bone health, and all types of metabolic benefits there.
Juravich: Okay, so pivoting though, you're the medical director of the Arnold Sports Festival. It's held annually here in Columbus. It's a massive multi-sports fitness festival. It's considered one of the most prestigious strength events in the world. It's known for its professional bodybuilding competitions. And so these people all care about the physique and the muscle and the maintaining the muscle mass. Have you noticed a change in the physique of attendees and competitors at all in recent years.
Bring: Yeah. It's, it's one of the coolest events to see. I mean, um, if you sit, we have, uh, participants from all over the world that come here. Um, the, the thing that I love about it is it truly promotes health and wellness. And that's, you know, some of the bodybuilders, um, uh you know we'll, we'll use some of those exogenous testosterone. I mean, it was pretty widely known that bodybuilder are using testosterone. Um and just even this past year, the top three finishers, I mean you could see muscle groups that you would never dream of, especially as, you know, you know, barely six foot, 170 pounds. You know, I lift light weights every day, I joke, but it is pretty wild to see what the human body is capable of.
Juravich: But are people at the Arnold, since you're the medical director, are they coming up to you and asking you about using peptides? Are they saying, like, can I win next year if I do this?
Bring: Less so we take care of more of the medical side. So if someone gets injured, we don't really get the peptide questions at the Arnold as much, but more of, I get more of the peptides questions in my day-to-day office from just everyday guys. Like I tell people that all the time, you know, my friends have asked me about it. It came up at one of our family discussions. Um, I got friends and family that asked me about it as well as, um, you know, just mostly young men that are looking to, you know, increase their muscle mass, be like some of the influences that they're seeing on Instagram and TikTok.
Juravich: But bottom line is you don't necessarily say that they're going to, that that's going to help with that.
Bring: Correct, yeah, now the GLPs are totally different. So, especially if I have patients that, you know, suffer from obesity, type two diabetes, those are medications we routinely prescribe in the office. So, you now, terzepotide is probably the one that we use most for weight loss. Semiligutide is the other one we use for type two diabetes. Those have been extensively studied and are FDA approved for a lot of different medical conditions now.
And so those are the ones where we say, These are the ones that can help you if you have these preexisting conditions. One, again, I can't emphasize this enough. It is so vital that you lift weights. You have to keep exercising, especially if you're using it for the weight loss aspect. I tell people you gotta hit the weights at least five days a week if you can.
Juravich: Now, do you have concerns about the use of these supplements, hurting athletes in the long run? You know, they're able, in their 20s, to maintain this muscle mass, but what about 10, 15, 20, 30 years from now? Years now.
Bring: Well, and especially a lot of the supplements are cleared by our kidneys and our liver, and can actually cause liver or kidney disease. So that's why I say to be very cautious about how this may affect other organ systems in your body. And it's a fair point. It's really hard to maintain that muscle mass. If you look at a lot NFL players that have then gone into broadcasting, they drop a lot weight very quickly just because of the amount of strain it puts on your It puts on your lungs, your bones, especially your joints. Um, and so that's where I think having a good discussion with your doctor, one thing I love to talk about is body composition. So, you know, if you have access to figuring out what your body fat percentages, what's your lean muscle mass, those are some really good things you can work on with your doctor to make sure you're hitting the appropriate body mass, uh, composition more so than a body mass index.
Juravich: I mean, is it possible for the professional bodybuilders that we see in the Arnold, can they build that body and that physique and they can win naturally?
Bring: Yes. Well, so we do have natural competitions. I actually have a couple of good friends that are in, um, you know, natural bodybuilding contests and, um absolutely. And they maintain incredible physiques. One of my friends, he's actually a sports medicine doctor down in Texas. Um, and he posts all the time about his training regimen, you know, what do his macros look like? We don't have to get too much into macros. Um, but you know how does he get enough calories during the day? Uh, and then also making sure he's got a really good training regimens. If you look at the ones that are bodybuilding naturally, it's still pretty incredible to see the muscle mass they're able to put on that way.
Juravich: What's the spectrum where it's a peptide and a testosterone, and then there's performance-enhancing drugs and taking steroids? What's that spectrum there?
Bring: Yeah, so the performance enhancing drugs, those can be all different types of things. I think during the cyclists that went through and they were doing a drug called EPO or erythropoietin, it's just kind of like a stimulator for red blood cells. So that's one that you can hear. There's another one called insulin-like growth factor or IGF. And so they're all different, they work on different mechanisms, so to speak.
Whereas testosterone is mostly focused on kind of increasing muscle mass and tone. Whereas some of the peptides, the main theory behind the peptide, and again, these need to be more studied, is that they increase your vascularity. So it improves blood vessel growth, a term called VEGF, Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor. I'll try not to say that one too many times either. And then nitrous oxide, and the theory behind those is that it will improve your blood flow to help regenerate tendons and cartilage and ligaments. But again, there's been no scientific studies that have actually proven that.
Juravich: Now I'm thinking there's going to be more scientific studies. I mean the the director of health and human services RFK jr He is a proponent of peptides and talks about them and you can find videos of him talking about them So therefore you would like you would think that I more of them could become FDA approved I mean are there being studies is this I mean is possible that the FDA might approve something, right?
Bring: Right. I think the regulation is the key here. We want to make sure that we're doing it the right way. You know, so I always tell what would be a really good study is, like I had said, that randomized controlled trial, where you look at one maybe very specific injury. I'll use the Achilles as an example. For men over 40, we get a lot of chronic tendon injuries, unfortunately. So if you had an Achilles injury, like tendinosis, we say a specific subgroup of patients between like, let's say the ages of 40 to 49 with the exact same injury.
And then doing that double-blinded study to get a really powerful number. It would be in the several hundreds of participants. I think that tobacco would be a really good study. But also making sure too, we wanna make sure these peptides are safe before they're effective too. So we're not giving somebody a peptide that could actually do harm. And as a physician, that's always our number one goal. Never do harm, we never wanna do harm that's first doing our harm is that's our, that's the oath that we took.
Juravich: Okay. Well, I guess a lot of patients would say who have been patient and waited for these GLP ones and now they're approved and they're working. So maybe we just need to be patient and wait for other things. Yeah.
Bring: Correct. And you know, I think the studies will, you know I always say the proof will be in the studies. And, you like I said, I was a biology major and a chemistry minor. At the purest of hearts, even as a doctor, I always am a scientist first. So this is where, you know, science matters, the studies matter. And I really, you, know I think it's really important to make sure that the studies that you're reading are also peer reviewed in a journal, and not just something you Googled, because peer reviewed studies are going to be the best, the best quality studies.
Juravich: Oh, you mean Dr. AI doesn't work?
Bring: Yeah, no, there's some really good, it's really cool. So we actually use one in our practice called open evidence and it will actually search for articles within well-published and well-approved journals. So I could say, I have a 30 year old man with a partial thickness rotator cuff tear. What would be some studies I could reference to look at this and we can use AI in that way.
Juravich: Okay, so, yes, but like Dr. Google, you have to be careful about, but yeah, I was just saying, you know, AI seems more fancy than Dr. Goggle, so we're getting fancier. So we're getting fancier.
Bring: We're getting better. Yes. We're better. Okay.
Juravich: Well, we have been speaking with Dr. Ben Bring, a board certified physician in family and sports medicine at Ohio Health. He's also the medical director for the Arnold Sports Festival. Thank you so much for your time today.
Bring: Thanks so much for having me.
Juravich: And coming up, one man's personal battle with steroid abuse is the focus of a film made here in Ohio. And we're gonna meet the star and screenwriter. That's when All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.
You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. One of the reasons behind the increased use of testosterone and peptides could be men chasing a new masculine ideal of a muscular physique. This is exemplified in part of the body transformations of Hollywood actors, bodybuilders, and online influencers. But it can come at a cost, which is the focus of a movie called "Test." Here's a part of a the movie trailer.
The movie was written by and stars Ohio native Brock Yurich, and it was filmed in his hometown. Welcome to All Sides, Brock.
Brock Yurich: Good morning. Thank you.
Juravich: So congratulations on the film. I read that you have been working on this for nearly a decade to get it made. Was this a labor of love or did something else delay it? Tell me about getting this film actually made.
Yurich: Yeah, so I wrote the first draft in 2016. And I had this script and I just, I was like, I don't know how to, I don't know what to do. I don't know what the next steps are. I don't, I didn't have that many ties in the filmmaking world. So I just I worked as hard as I could to make the script as good as possible. That's really all I could do at that moment.
And then I, there was a competition and called the Hometown Heroes Rally. And it was a fundraising campaign competition to see who could raise the most money and get the most followers for their film project. So I entered that and we came third place out of 70 films. And so that really took my project from black and white to Technicolor. Thousands of people saw what I was trying to do and saw the story and the themes in the story. And we're like, this is fantastic, Brooke. We've not seen this, you need to make this.
So over the next many years, there was just a lot of different, yeah, like, you know, COVID happened and then the right thing happened. And it was just, it was a long, long time until Sam McConnell, the director of "Test," once he and I met, we met in 2023. And the moment we met, I just knew he was the right guy. That's really when it all started to fuel It felt right. It all just fit.
Juravich: Tell me about the decision to have the movie be filmed in your hometown here in Ohio. How did you come to know that you wanted it to be this Ohio born movie?
Yurich: I always, I love, I'm from Tuscarawas County and it is the most beautiful place. I just love, there's so much texture and there's much history. And I just, I just knew that my first film project, I had to bring it back to my hometown. I have to, you know, make my people proud. And so it was very important that I set it in Ohio.
And I also knew that trying to raise money for. My first film was going to be really tough. So I purposely kept the story very simple. It's not a lot of like, there's no car chase scenes. It was not a very expensive movie. It was about these people just trying to do their best. And so I knew that if we filmed in my hometown, that we could get a lot things pretty cheap.
Juravich: Yeah.
Yurich: And but also the most important thing was to bring my community into this project, which was absolutely magical. You know, my parents would come to set and, you know, every few days and they would have lunch with us. And it was just like I was like, this is the best time of my life.
Juravich: Well, congratulations on getting the film made, and you are the star of the film, and you have the physique of a bodybuilder to be the star that film. Because of the length of time it took to make the movie, how hard was it to maintain that condition, that bodybuilders body?
Yurich: Sure, what we did was to make it a little bit easier on me was we shot the final competition scene where I look the most defined first. So I was able to train and prepare up until the day we started shooting, because once you start shooting, it becomes very, very difficult. So we knew that we had to get the moments where I had to look the best, we had But yeah, throughout the rest of the film, a lot of the films is me lifting weights. And I was able to get my workouts in during takes.
Juravich: Many, many, many takes, I'm sure. Like, oh, lift that again, that's easy, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, when actors are asked about how they made their physical transformation, there's been lots of instances of actors becoming very muscular for a particular role. They often credit eating chicken, broccoli, and rice, and then maybe they admit to having a personal trainer. I mean, is it truly just clean eating and working out that can get you that body.
Yurich: This question, you know, if it is, if that's all they did, that is really, really impressive. I don't want to say that I know that they're doing something else, but I think we all have an idea. You know, to get a really intense physical transformation like that, there are certain drugs that people use, and we all know it. And it is a bit taboo to talk about.
So yeah, that's really what "Test" is about. We're talking about steroids, we're talking how common it is. And so it's a conversation that I think we all really, really need to have. And we are starting to have, like it is showing up in the culture. We are talking about it. There are articles about this and the side effects and the health effects, but there are, I think everybody sort of like, Like you probably know many people who you don't realize are on, you know, using steroids. Right. It's just more common than we think.
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about the Ohio-made film, "Test." It's about one man's personal battle with steroid abuse. And we're talking with Brock Yurich, who wrote and stars in the movie. Is it fair to say bodybuilding was in your blood since your father was a bodybuilder? Have you always been a part of the culture?
Yurich: Definitely. Yes. My father, he competed for a few years when I was maybe like 10 or 11. So yeah, but he was always going to the gym. But then when I, was about like, when I was about 10, he started competing. So, you know, I would, he would go to the gym and I would sit and do my homework while he was training. And so I have these really beautiful memories of my family, my siblings and I cheering on my dad and, you you know, celebrating afterwards and so I've always, like I... I was very used to that world.
And I guess I took for granted how other people really like had never ever been to something like that. And so I realized like how unique and special growing up like that was. And then my dad took me to the gym when I was about 15 years old and taught me how to weight lift. And it was the first time that I really felt like we had something in common. So I really leaned into it and took it seriously and then started competing.
Juravich: And your father makes an appearance in the film. There are other family members in the movie too, just little like guest spots, extras. Yeah, I hear him.
Yurich: Yeah, my dad is the emcee of the final competition, and my mother is one of the ladies at the Mary Kay party.
Juravich: Oh, yeah. Yes, in the film, the main character's mom has a Mary Kay party. OK. Yeah. So the film follows one man's personal battle with steroid abuse and his sexuality. How much of this film, when you wrote it, is semi biographical? Like, did you put a lot of yourself into it?
Yurich: I did, it's not autobiographical. This is not my story. I like to think that maybe Eddie is, would be like maybe, like me in an alternate universe. Eddie was a way of me, was a for me to deal with certain traumas that I've had in my life. It was very therapeutic, you know, writing this story, this fictional story that was far enough apart from me that it was, you now, healthy. It wasn't super close, I'm not playing myself in my own story, that's a little too close to home.
And I don't think that would be very healthy, but no, this is a fictional story. My dad didn't leave when I was a child, my mom is not Joanne, but these are different characters that I came up with that I have had relationships with with real people. So they are sort of a comedy, I'd like a. Blending of different people in my life that I've sort of built into this character.
Juravich: In the previous segment, we spoke with a doctor about the increasing obsession with testosterone. I mean, as a bodybuilder and a personal trainer, have you seen an increased interest in people wanting to take testosterone and peptides to meet a certain goal?
Yurich: Absolutely. Yeah.
Juravich: Yeah, is that why this film is called "Test"? Like, why did you decide, you could call it Testosterone, I guess, but did you decided to call it test because everyone's testing out these drugs and it's testosterone?
Yurich: Correct, yeah, there's very layered, many different meanings to the title. Yes, of course, test is what we, shorthand for testosterone, where you run three cc's of tests, whatever. Yeah, he's being tested in many, many different ways. And yeah, I think a lot of the problems that come, that this character, these characters experience are because of testosterone, you know, these, these men have these issues and they're so, so that's why I felt like that was the best title test is like, it's short, you know? It's, it' powerful and, uh, and it means many different things.
Juravich: And you said you grew up in Tuscarawas County, which is not the easiest county in Ohio to say, but I got it there. Yeah. So was it filmed in, is it, is the town Dover? Is that right?
Yurich: Yeah, yeah, over and there's there's a sister city, New Philadelphia, and they're they're like, next. Yeah.
Juravich: Okay, so you're in Ohio, not necessarily like next door to Columbus, but one of the biggest annual events here in Columbus is the Arnold Sports Festival. Do you think that this film is going to have a special appeal to the fitness community of Ohio just because of the subject matter and that Arnold Sports festival connection we have?
Yurich: That is a really good question. I'm not sure, I haven't really thought about that.
Juravich: Okay, are you gonna bring the movie to the Arnold Sports Festival maybe?
Yurich: Oh, I don't think they would. I don, I dunno how they would feel about the movie. You know, I'm, I, I am very interested to see when the, when this movie does come out to the public. I'm very interested to see the reaction from the bodybuilding world because I'm sure some people are going to feel, you know, maybe upset by it. And then other people might see it and think like, like this is exactly what it's like, dude.
Juravich: Yeah. Have you, I'm not sure of years of when you were active or when your dad was active. Was the Arnold Sports Festival around? Have you been to it?
Yurich: Yeah, my dad took me when I was probably like 12 or 13 years old. And that was way before it became super packed. Right. We were able to walk around and see everything and meet everybody. But now I've went back as an adult and I was like, oh, this is
Juravich: This is like way too much. It's pretty huge. Yeah. Yeah. It's really huge. Well, we are speaking with actor, screenwriter and Ohio native Brock Yurich about his film "Test," a classic American story on steroids, which follows a young bodybuilder living in small town Ohio. And coming up, we're going to talk about some of the other themes in the film besides bodybuilding, which includes religion and sexuality. That is when All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.
You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. For years, body image issues were associated with women. However, an obsession with male body image has been turning the attention to men struggling with this problem. And they are placing their health at risk. To achieve this goal, they're turning to testosterone and peptides, but they may not need them. The movie "Test" follows one man's personal battle with substance abuse to achieve a perfect physique. And the movie was filmed here in Ohio, in the hometown of our guest this hour, Brock Yurich, who stars in the movie and he also wrote the screenplay. Thanks again for being here, Brock.
Yurich: I'm so happy to be here.
Juravich: So we're gonna get back to the making of "Test," but did it grow out of your short film you made? You made a short film called "Tea County."
Yurich: Yes, that's correct. Yeah.
Juravich: Tell me about "Tea County."
Yurich: Yeah, so "Tea County" was like my first experiment in filmmaking and writing a role for myself and trying to see what it was like to be on the other side of the camera. Instead of auditioning as an actor, I wanted to write a role for myself that probably would not happen. It's trying to win the lottery. It's like waiting around for that perfect role is a long, long wait. So I was like, I have to do this myself.
My my best one of my best friends and he was like a mentor for me his name was Sean Palmer and I was a very young little new kid in New York City it was 22 years old and he gave me the best advice he said you have to write your own stuff you know and that was that really really sat with me so uh T county was a story that I came up with it was about a grandpa and a father and a son it was three men living in a log cabin and we shot in my parents' log cabin. My parents had this, they lived in this log cabin that I was like, I have to shoot a movie here. Yeah.
So we came, I built a little team and we came to Ohio and we shoot this drama. It was, so I went to college for theater in Orlando and my college professor, Mark Brotherton, he, I asked him to play my grandpa. So he flew in from Florida and played my grandpa and then Sean Palmer, my mentor, my friend played my young dad. He was so that was like. You know, it was just a beautiful moment to have these, these men who really meant a lot to me in my short film.
And so I took the story of "Tea County," and then I changed the character into a bodybuilder. So that was the first draft. Yeah. And then, and just over the years, just changing, changing, changing it became "Test." And it was very, I mean, the first, the first draft of the film, is not even close to, you know, what "Test" is now. It's a very, very different story, but it still has that same sort of essence, you know of like being in Ohio, this young troubled guy named Eddie and you know with the bodybuilding.
So I just knew that like that's, those were the key points I wanted to stay with, but there was many, many different things like, you know changing the father to a mother and you know what themes I wanted to talk about and that changed over the years. You know, it was like there were things that I, as time went on, I was like, I kind of want to start talking about this and a little bit less of this. So yeah.
Juravich: Your film addresses many themes. So there's the intersection of bodybuilding, masculinity, religion, substance abuse, and same sex attraction. That is a lot of themes for one movie and you weave it together really well. I was very impressed by this movie, but what do you want viewers to take away? What do you viewers to walk away with from this film with all those different themes in there?
Yurich: You know, this question is, it always stumps me because I don't really know what I want the audience to take away. I've never really like had a concrete answer for that. But what I did, what I imagined when I, the feeling of the emotion that I felt was when I finished, you know, When I, like, I was like.
Juravich: I mean, I could, yeah, go ahead, go head. I was just gonna say, yeah I could answer it for you. I mean I as a viewer, I'm not gonna give anything away, but I just wanted Eddie to be happy so badly. Yeah, of course. Yeah.
Yurich: Yeah, yeah, no, that's a that's beautiful. I guess I was just thinking about what I wanted to do was I wanted to talk with people after the movie and I wanted to see what they got what they took away from it. It's been so fascinating to see people's reactions and hugging them, you know, at film festivals and talking with them and cry something. You know, some are crying. And so I just am so open to whatever people take away from that.
I just wanted to stick with the story and I wanted to make sure, I did wanna make sure that I wanted people to realize and to understand that this is not a condemnation of steroids or testosterone or bodybuilding or religion. It's not, we're not saying this is good, this is bad. I wanted it people to just witness an examination of this very, very specific time in our lives and in this country and in the culture where a lot of these things, bodybuilding, the steroids, the church, there's a lot influencers out there that are God first in their Instagram profile and they're just bodybuilding and clearly juicing. It's fascinating, it's all just fascinating.
Juravich: Yeah, and speaking of the religion part of your movie, Matthew Morrison plays the pastor in the movie and our listeners will know him as Will Schuster in the TV series "Glee," right? Which also happens to be set in Ohio, right? How did Matthew Morrison end up as a part of movie.
Yurich: Well, our producer, Daryl, he was working with, talking with Matt about another project that Daryll was working on at the same time, while we were working on casting the role of the pastor. And so he messaged us and talked to the team and he said, hey guys, I was just talking with Matthew Morrison about a project I'm doing. But then I thought like he might, we're looking for the pastor, he might be great. And we were like, yeah.
And the great part was, the fun part was Um, I had done a a showcase, an NBC showcase in 2016 with his wife, Renee. And I met Matthew at this showcase. And so I became, you know, friends with them. And I like, we went to the gym together. And so, I had this like very, you now, casual, like very quick little relationship with, you know I had met Matt and then that was years ago.
And so when Daryl said, he was talking with Matthew Morrison, I said, Bring up my name and see if you. Remembers me. He might. I think he will. And so he did. And he came, he agreed to do it. He came to set for two days. And just like, he was like, Brock, oh my God, you did this. And I was like You're in it! It was just a cool reunion.
Juravich: And then Tammy Blanchard plays your mom. She does a fabulous job, and she's been in a few well-known roles as well.
Yurich: She is a national treasure. Working with her was an absolute dream. She was so dropped in and she understood the character so well that I didn't even have to act. People are like, I think somebody asked like, how was it trying to like keep up with her? And I was like, I just had to like just let her affect me.
Juravich: Hmm
Yurich: and just be present with her. And I didn't have to do anything because she was so convincing as Joanne that I just had to like look her in the eyes and just take in what she was giving me. And it was so powerful.
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News, and we're talking about the movie "Test," filmed here in Ohio, and one man's personal battle with steroid abuse. And our guest is Brock Yurich, who wrote and stars in the movie. Let's talk about the LGBTQ themes a little bit in the film, because I mean, that plays a role in the move too, and that ties in with the religion component. I mean did you have that part, the same-sex attraction to be a part of the movie from the very. Beginning or did you add that in as you were developing it?
Yurich: That actually, in the first draft, was not there. With "Tea County," there was no sexual confusion. That really wasn't an issue. And so in the First Draft of "Test," Eddie was heterosexual, and there was not questioning. But my friend read the script, and he said, you know, Brock, this is cool, but what's your story? And I said, well, I was coming out. At the same time I was starting to compete. And he goes, that, stop, like just go there. And I was like, that's really personal.
And he says, that exactly the point. If it scares you, that means you're doing something right. And I'm like, I don't know. I'm really scared to write a story. And this was back in 20, against 2016. Times have changed, but I guess I didn't want, I was scared of putting my movie into a smaller subcategory.
But then I started watching these really beautiful queer films that were not part of this category, that were just more universal. They were more about love and less about this. Like it was just brilliant the way they had done these things. Like a movie like "Moonlight" was so influential. And I was like, oh, okay, I gotta take a pass at this and maybe write Eddie to be a little bit closer to what I was dealing with. And you know, that's just how it came about. And I was like, oh, this is really. Real this is this is the this is the story.
Juravich: And to put it in very red Ohio, rural Ohio, with the religion component too, I mean, did that just, once you decided to do the sexual confusion part, did it just make sense to be like, okay, well, we already have the religion and the red state and everything? Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Yurich: Yeah, it all just, it was just all there. And also I wanted to explore the similarities between the religion of bodybuilding and the religion or Christianity and how, you know, they go to church. He even says in the movie, he's like, I went to the holy church of Rikers. I, you took communion and I sacrificed my firstborn. So it is a religion to these guys. Yeah.
Juravich: And as a screenwriter, your films are dealing with religion, LGBTQ issues, sports, masculinity, that's all in there. Were you cognizant that you wanted to stay away from the typical like character narrative trope of like the dumb bodybuilder that we see in a lot of other movies?
Yurich: Absolutely, I really appreciate you bringing that up because that's really why I wanted, that's one of the first reasons why I wanted to make "Test" was because I had seen so many bodybuilding characters in the media, just... Being just like, they just make fun of them. They're a punchline. And they make them out to be these big dumb guys and these big angry guys.
And some of my best friends are bodybuilders and they're the smartest people, you know, and they are the most dedicated people and the kindest people. You know, they're, the first ones to help somebody at the gym who's, you might be struggling, you. So yeah, I really wanted to shine a light on. On how what people think this is, is really not what it is.
Juravich: And since the film is semi-biographical, what was the hardest scene for you to get right? Don't give anything away, but you know, did you struggle with any scene in particular?
Yurich: Did I struggle with any scene in particular? I think the bathtub scene, the final bathtub scene.
Juravich: Okay, well, we won't give anything away, but it is very emotional, yes. So, yeah, and that is a very intense scene with your mom, with the mom character as well, yeah.
Yurich: Yeah, yeah.
Juravich: The movie debuted at the South by Southwest London Film Festival, and it's being screened at more festivals. What's audience reaction been like for you?
Yurich: It has, it's been absolutely incredible. It's been an absolute dream. People are responding so well. And so they, they have, they're saying nothing but the beautiful things about the movie. And I'm so grateful that everyone is really picking up what we were putting down. Everyone is, everyone is catching onto these things that I was like, I really hope that they, they see how much work and detail we put in. And they're like, no, we did. We saw, we saw all that.
So that has been so rewarding and so validating. And just the way that people have messaged me and people I don't know that have just take the time out of their day just to tell me how much they're like, I can't stop thinking about this film or just the most beautiful messages. It's been an absolute, it was worth the nine to 10 years of pain.
Juravich: Well, I'll add my name to that list of people. I couldn't stop thinking about it. And as I said, I just wanted Eddie to be happy. And, but you're kind of passing the film around on the film circuit. Talk to me about promotion distribution. I guess someone listening right now is good, wants to watch the movie. So what do they need to do?
Yurich: Well, if you follow Test the Film on Instagram, you can also follow my own Instagram where I post about all the upcoming film festivals. Right now, we are only able to show at film festivals, and so we will be hitting many, many different cities. Our next film festival is at Outfest here in Los Angeles, and that's July 24th. But if you follow our social media page, we will be posting all the places that you can see it in this year.
But our plan, our goal, is to get the movie bought by a company. Yes, obviously, yes. Yeah, and so I can't really get into all the specifics about that, but we will get it test out to the world.
Juravich: Okay, so right now you can see the trailer right on YouTube as like as as trailers go and then do you have any plans on showing it in Ohio since it's from here?
Yurich: Well, that's a really that's that's a good question. We have not heard back from any Ohio film festivals at the moment, but I'm sure there there will be some. We just haven't, you know, like film festivals, they just take sometimes take a long time to to get back to you or whatever. But but I will when we are allowed. I'm not sure when we're allowed because of legalities, but to show the movie test in my hometown and over at the Quaker Cinema is just going to be the coolest night ever.
Juravich: Okay, so so that's on, you know, the to be determined but on on the list of things to do with it, right? Yeah, and yeah, just and tell us, you know, in the minute we have left, is there anything listeners can do to help with promotion and distribution if they're very intrigued by the movie, especially with its Ohio base and like, can they just can they help you in any way?
Yurich: I guess following the Instagram on test the film and just, I guess like reposting, you know, we're gonna post about the movie and if people can share their Instagram stories, just tell people, there's a word of mouth is truly the best. You know, like somebody tells me about a great movie, I will probably go see it rather than, you know a billboard. Yeah. So yeah, just.
Juravich: Well, we here in Ohio love our Ohio people to succeed. So that's why, yeah.
Yurich: Thank you.
Juravich: Yes. All right. We have been speaking with Brock Yurich about the film "Test," and not only is he the star of the movie, but he also wrote the screenplay, and it was filmed here in Ohio in his hometown. Thank you so much for joining me today.
Yurich: Thank you for having me. This was wonderful.
Juravich: You've been listening to All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. And if you missed any part of today's show, listen back at wosu.org slash all sides. Subscribe to the All Sides podcast. Every episode is available in our mobile app. Be sure to follow the show on Facebook and on Instagram. Our handle is at All Sides WOSU. Thanks for listening. This has been All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. I'm Amy Juravich.