A U.S. Air Force veteran recently returned to Taiwan 53 years after serving there.
Columbus native and journalist TC Brown reflects on that time long ago and the geopolitical realities facing the island nation today.
Growing a small business is difficult. It requires a significant amount of tech expertise. Buckeye Innovation is a software engineering team located in New Albany that helps businesses design and build digital tools.
The founder has been making websites since the 6th grade and is dedicated to supporting other innovators growing their businesses.
The CEO and co-founder of the Women of Color Retail Alliance was just recognized as one of Columbus Monthly’s 2026 class of Inspiring Women.
The organization is working to diversify retail jobs and elevate Women of Color within those roles through training and support networks.
Guests:
- TC Brown, journalist/author
- Brad Griffith, founder, Buckeye Innovation
- Kimberly Lee Minor, CEO and co-founder, Women of Color Retail Alliance
Transcript
This transcript is generated with AI. To ensure its accuracy, review the audio file.
Amy Juravich: Welcome to All Sides with Amy Juravich. This is Fascinating Ohio, a show from all sides in WOSU, where we introduce you to people from the Buckeye state with an interesting story to tell. T.C. Brown is a Columbus resident born and raised. At 18, he joined the Air Force and headed halfway around the world to Taiwan. It was the time of the Vietnam War, and Taiwan was a critical but largely forgotten staging hub for American operations across Southeast Asia. Brown, who went on to a career in journalism at the Columbus Dispatch and the Cleveland Plain Dealer, recently traveled back to Taiwan 53 years after leaving there. Welcome to All Sides TC.
TC Brown: Oh, thank you, Amy. It's great to be here.
Juravich: So you spent three weeks in Taiwan, returning to the U.S. In late May. Describe what it was like to be back there after 53 years.
Brown: It was a lot different than when I left you know when I left I left in 1973 after having been there four years and in the middle of it I was in Vietnam for about a year and so it was you know it was a backward country you know. It was an agricultural community you know a lot of people only rich people had cars the Taiwanese I'm talking about otherwise you would see a million bicycles and scooters and stuff and some water buffalo ambling down the street.
But now, the first day I got back to Taipei, I think it was like April 28th, I went up to Taipe 101, that's that building, that crazy guy free climbed a while back. I've heard of that. Yeah, that was amazing. Yeah, it's 101 stories. And anyway, I was stunned looking out at Taipei because what were once rice fields or just like thousands of structures as far as you could see. Some awesome buildings and uh... It was not like that at all you know there were rice fields dominated the countryside when I was there
Juravich: So at the time when you were there, when Ricefields dominated the country, I mean, you were, tell me about your time and what service was like there. Cause, and you also spent a year in Vietnam. Uh, what was it like during that time?
Brown: Yeah, so we were, I was on a base, it's kind of in the middle of, not quite the middle, of Taiwan on the west coast called CCK, Ching Chuan Kong, and in a city called Taichung. And we were a support base for the Vietnam War effort. And in fact, some of the reviewers have said that this is the only book that's been written about American presence in Taiwan during the Cold War for that time period. And... So I was a military cop in the Air Force, Security Police, and for the first few months I was guarding airplanes and I must have shined my shoes right or something because they came after about four or five months of doing that, they said, we're gonna put you down on town patrol, which meant I would live off the base, I would be doing law enforcement, and we had a bar area down there called the Dirty Dozen, which was very popular with all the guys.
So you could have a little more fun. Yeah, that's where people relaxed and escaped and you know, did a lot of crazy things. So anyway, you know it was intense. I mean, even guarding the aircraft was a serious business because we had refueling aircraft there for the B-52s that were bombing North Vietnam. We had C-130s which were the cargo aircraft that flew all around Asia. So it was very intense. And And also, you know, it was a different culture. So it was mind blowing in that sense that, you now, I was pretty naive kid and I kind of thought Columbus, Ohio was pretty much, hey, every place is like Columbus, right? Not so much. And I think a lot of guys are like that, you know because we hadn't been exposed, you.
Juravich: Yeah, I mean, who back in the 60s and 70s had seen Taiwan, right?
Brown: When they assign me to Taiwan, honestly, where's Taiwan? I don't know. I need a map, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Juravich: Well, your memoir that you just mentioned, you published last June. It's titled "Made in Taiwan, a naive American's chaotic journey to manhood in an exotic culture during radical times." You gave an author presentation and you mentioned that the Vietnam era is a blank slate for most people. What are most people interested in in knowing whenever you talk to people about your book? I mean, you just mentions that. Probably most people didn't know that in Vietnam, when we were in Vietnam we were Taiwan, right? So start there.
Brown: Yeah, yeah, I think even though there were, you know, on my base, there was maybe I was there 68 to 70, then Vietnam, and then end of 70 to beginning of 73. There were maybe 8,000 or so guys on the base and a few women, you know, not many American women I'm talking about. And, but there were other bases and 5,000 GIs a month went to R&R in Taipei. From Vietnam, so there was a big American presence. So over there, I found that there's a huge interest, renewed interest, in which, you know, my timing was perfect on the book because I wasn't aware of this.
And when I was there, I talked to three academics, I talked a couple of research organizations, I met the number two American official in Taiwan. So there was, you now, they're trying to resurrect the history. Now here, people don't have That sort of intense Desire to you know, well, what was it like? I mean they're interested That's what prompted me to write the book actually over the years I would tell people stories about the crazy stuff. I saw and sometimes did and You know, they oh, why don't you write you're a writer write that you know And it took me a while to get there. But actually I credit my my wife Mary Yost I don't know if you knew Mary. She was the opinion page editor of the dispatch and Yeah, she's been around a long time. Unfortunately, she passed away a couple of years ago. I'm sorry. Yeah, thank you. But she, you know, one day we were just walking, she said, why don't you do a memoir? You know? And I had never thought about that. So I did the research. And yeah, that's the way I went.
Juravich: Well, if Mary told you to, you definitely should. Oh, yeah, and she was...
Brown: Oh, yeah, and she was the first reader and editor and yeah, you know, she didn't play around she was very good
Juravich: Well, and are you hearing from people who were also in Taiwan? Because you just said that there were 8,000 people stationed there. I didn't know that. That's more that that's more if you would have made me guess a number, I wouldn't have guessed that many. So are you hearing from people who had similar experiences to you, whether you knew them or not?
Brown: Yes, absolutely. And, you know, social media, of course, is a big part of that. There's a Facebook page called, God, I should remember the CCK veterans, something like that. And that's, you know I posted the book on there. And of course that got a lot of interest. And you know what I liked is that many people, some people weren't even in the Air Force, but they were maybe in similar places. And it said that, you know, and And that made me feel good because 50 years is a long time and people have asked me, well, how do you remember from 50 years? And I said, well, I was there every day for four years. I don't remember everything, but I remember the big things, the standout.
Juravich: This is Fascinating Ohio from All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking with Columbus native and journalist T.C. Brown, who recently returned to Taiwan 53 years after being stationed there with the U.S. Air Force. And his memoir is titled "Made in Taiwan." So your trip coincided with President Trump's visit to China, where Taiwan is a touchy subject, geopolitical issue. You spoke with a number of people there. You talked with local people, professors that you just mentioned. I mean, what did you learn about the overall mood and concerns about the fate of the island?
Brown: Yeah, good question and very pertinent. Yeah, part of what I wanted to do, so I have two story assignments. Next Tuesday, I did a column for the Taipei Times and that's coming out. And then in the fall, I should have a piece for the American Legion magazine coming out, so I was kind of interviewing too and I pretty much asked everybody from taxi cab drivers to officials, how do you feel about the situation with China? How do you about America? And do you think we're gonna hang in there? You know, a lot of friends here say, oh, be careful, you know, you never know what could happen.
But over there, there's some concern. You know people are aware that it's a possibility China could decide to invade, or blockade or whatever. But they're pretty confident that it is not gonna happen. First of all, Taiwan has a pretty strong military itself, and it wouldn't be an easy, there's a mountain range down the spine of the island. All the way from North to South, so it wouldn't be easy to conquer. And, you know, they have faith in the fact that I kept hearing Silicon Shield, Taiwan makes 90 plus percent of the microchips in the world, and China knows that, and they think China would not want to interrupt that flow because China needs this stuff too.
Juravich: So if China would start some sort of war or takeover, it would interrupt the semiconductor business that Taiwan is running the world with, basically.
Brown: Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah, you know, couldn't that change down the road? I'm sure people are working on that. But but that was the current mood, you know, and I found nobody that was freaked out about China. And they think America will hang in there. I think we've put some defense weaponry money on hold, but they still believe in America. And they you know Japan came out not too long ago and said. An attack on Taiwan is an attack on us, which really ticked off China, but it gave Taiwan more confidence.
Juravich: So do you think this this silicon shield is a sustainable thing because China's trying to build more chips, America's trying to build more ships. We're trying to all beat Taiwan, but Taiwan definitely has a good running head start.
Brown: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm no expert on that business, but for sure, I think, you know, down the road, yeah, that could be a good argument. I mean yeah, how far down the row? You know, I don't know. Like I think Intel, from what I've read here is, you know it's trying to get going, but there's been some issues. So yeah, it's a good question, but I don't know if I can answer that one. You don't know the answer.
Juravich: Well, what about you said you talked to like average people in Taiwan and you asked them about the China situation, but do do does the average person in Taiwan know a lot about semiconductors industry?
Brown: I think not, even when I would ask taxi drivers and just the populace walking around, I would hear a lot. The media talks about that all the time. We don't talk politics. They're busy living their everyday lives. The economy is obviously much stronger than it was, but still got a ways to go.
Juravich: So how did you end up going into journalism after the Air Force?
Brown: Uh, well, I, um, I took an, uh, I don't know what the test is called. It's like an interest test where they compare your answers with successful career people. And I stood out in musician, English teacher, and journalist. And I had never, to be honest, I'd never thought about it. And I, you know, Oh, okay. Looked it up. That sounds pretty good. And it was a great career. I mean, I was in newspapers 25 years and, uh. I didn't write much as a kid, but I was a big reader, you know, so I don't know, maybe that was all in there somewhere. So it worked.
Juravich: So it was an interest test. So you said you tested for musician and journalist, but musician wasn't on your radar.
Brown: Well, no, I actually tried to, I talk about it in the book that I, you know, I thought I was going to get in the Air Force band because I was in a band here called the Buckeye Brass at the time, which was kind of a Tijuana brass, very popular kind of thing. And you know the Air force recruiter said, oh yeah, just tell them once you get through basic no problem, they'll get you in the band.
Juravich: Okay.
Brown: You know, yeah, I signed the line and anyway, I didn't get in the band
Juravich: Okay, so you ended up as a journalist. I mean, tell me a little bit about your career. So you worked at both the Dispatch and the Cleveland Prine Dealer. Did you have a certain beat you covered?
Brown: Yeah, so I graduated from San Francisco State because when I got out of the service, I was in the Bay Area and I got my journalism degree there and worked briefly out there and then I moved back. I'm from Columbus, of course, and I moved and got a job on the CJ. I was the last city hall reporter for the CJ before it closed. The CJ. Oh, I'm sorry, Citizen Journal, yeah. That goes back a long time. Yeah.
Juravich: Yeah, you got to tell me what the letters stand for.
Brown: Yeah, Citizen Journal, that was the morning paper and that was a great paper, that probably my fave. But yeah, then I worked on a Kentucky Post for a couple years, came back up here at the Dispatch, working in accent, doing important stories like Hunt for Bigfoot and what is the best patio bar you know, in the summer.
Juravich: Oh, you were a features reporter? Yeah, I was a feature reporter.
Brown: Yeah, as a pictures reporter, and then I got a job at the Plane Dealer Bureau, State House Bureau in 89, and I was there for 17 and a half years, doing investigative stuff, Supreme Court environment, you know, just disasters.
Juravich: You covered the state house in the 80s, basically, or in the 90s.
Brown: In the 90s? 90S. 90S, yeah. Yeah, yeah, basically in the 90's and left in 2000, end of 2006. Okay. They gave us a buyout.
Juravich: So when you decided that you wanted to go back to Taiwan, I mean, when was that decision made? Was it because you were writing the book or was it because you just felt like 53 years is enough? Why not? Let's go back.
Brown: Well, I got asked that question a lot, you know, why did it take you so long? You know, I'll be honest, I went on with life. I mean, it was like something that I did in my past and after meeting some former journalists, ex-pats over there, I thought, God, I could have thought about coming back here, but I didn't. And so after the book came out, I never thought about it while I was writing the book, but after the books came out and Mary had passed and I thought I wanna do something, I wanna go somewhere.
But I don't want to go by myself, but I knew I had, the book got reviewed in Taiwan in the Taipei Times, got a great review. I was on a couple of podcasts and a YouTube program over there. And so I already had some contacts. So, you know, I got to give a shout out to Reynolds Travel, who, you they helped, they helped plan the trip, which was great. Cause it was a big trip. Cause I also went tacked on a week in Thailand.
Juravich: Oh well.
Brown: So, and while I'm thanking people, I also want to thank the Columbus Publishing Lab. It was a self-published book, and they're out in Newark and they did a fantastic job too, and for any self- publishers, recommend them.
Juravich: Yeah. So now that you went back, so you wrote the book and now you went back there. So Don, do you have a second book out of it?
Brown: I've been asked that a lot, too. Yeah, I probably could, but I'm not thinking it. What I'm gonna do is get the book translated, and then I think I have to go back for a book release party. This time I'll stay a little longer.
Juravich: Yeah, well, there you go. And then maybe you'll have a second book after your second trip.
Brown: It's possible. All right. Right now.
Juravich: We've been talking with Columbus native and journalist T.C. Brown, who recently returned to Taiwan 53 years after being stationed there with the U.S. Air Force. And his memoir is titled "Made in Taiwan." Thank you so much for your time today, T. C. Thank you very much. And coming up, we're going to talk about the tech expertise needed to help small businesses. That is when Fascinating Ohio From All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.
You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. This is Fascinating Ohio, a show from All Sides and WOSU where we introduce you to people from the Buckeye State with an interesting story to tell. Growing a small business is difficult. Today, it requires a significant amount of tech experience to have a successful business. Brad Griffith has been making websites since the sixth grade. And since then, he has pursued a career in technology and now coaches other innovators. As the founder and president of Buckeye Innovation, a software engineering team located in New Albany that is helping businesses design and build digital tools. Brad joins us today, welcome to All Sides. Thanks so much for having me. So why did you choose to create Buckeye Innovation? And maybe tell me why you went with that name.
Brad Griffith: Absolutely. I'm a proud member of the Buckeye State. I grew up here, I'll always be here. So I like being an Ohioan and using that in my name as a Buckey. I started Bucceye Innovation. Initially, my dad was a veterinarian, so I got to see in his veterinary practice for 50 years he ran it in Dublin. I got see the challenges of a growing innovative business that really is making a big difference in people's lives. When you have a pet, do you have any pets, Amy?
Juravich: I used to have a pet, yes, okay, yeah. You know what it's like to be a...
Griffith: Pet lover, to be a pet parent, you can make a huge difference by offering life-changing services to the owners of pets, and so on and so forth.
Juravich: Finding a good vet is very important.
Griffith: It's challenging, and there are a lot of veterinarians around. So my dad in particular, he was an innovator. He studied Chinese herbal medicine in China, acupuncture, chiropractic. He took me with him to China, Taiwan and China. So a segue from our last segment. Took me to Taiwan for an acupuncture conference. He was an invader. He liked to do unique things in veterinary medicine, combining the best of Western medicine and Eastern medicine. And I learned that as he was running his business, there were a lot of resources he needed that maybe were not as available to him as a small business owner in the Midwest.
I saw then there were a lot other obstacles being a female-owned business, a minority-owned, being a non-profit. We serve a lot non-profits and local governments these days. There are a lot obstacles. So I started Buckeye Innovation to bring together design, development, and strategy. So taking a strategic approach, applying great technology and great design. To build technology for these growing innovative organizations, both for profit and not for profit as well as government. And that's why I got it started.
Juravich: Yeah, herbal medicine or acupuncture for pets is probably a whole separate show, but now you've given me an idea
Griffith: Absolutely. It could be great. I heard your episode with Brad who traveled the country with his grandma.
Juravich: Yeah, yeah
Griffith: Also a veterinarian, so yeah, you covered some good veterinary medicine topics.
Juravich: Yeah, I'm gonna tuck that one away for a future show, but okay, so a part of your mission though and you kind of just mentioned that is for organizations be able to have equitable access to digital tools. So you're finding that maybe like a small minority owned business just doesn't have the resources to do things they need to do and you want to help them there.
Griffith: Right. Right. Frequently. And also being in the Midwest, sometimes that's the obstacle. There are all sorts of obstacles.
Juravich: Yeah, why is being in the Midwest an obstacle, because you're not in New York City?
Griffith: Right, you're not in New York City, not in the Bay Area. If you're a startup company, we work a lot with Rev1 Ventures and their startups. If you are a startup business in the bay area and you drop the term AI, people will write you checks. And it's maybe not quite as simple, but just because of the network there, capital is much more available. We also know if you're a female or minority-owned business, getting venture capital for your business is very challenging. So some businesses have to deal with different resources than those bigger businesses or Bay Area businesses.
Juravich: Can you walk me through how you would consult, like how your team would help a business? So say I have a business and I wanna make it grow and I come to you and I say, help me grow this business. What would you do?
Griffith: So we work primarily with mission-driven entrepreneurs, people who, whether that's for profit or not for profit, you have something you care about. Someone gave me advice one day that I should know what are the problems in the world that I think are worth solving, and then identify what are skills I have that I can use towards solving that problem. So we look to entrepreneurs, we look non-profit executive directors, to government leaders, and ask them, what are challenges that you face in bridging equity gaps? Who are you trying to serve? Who you think is worth serving, they've got a problem we're solving, how are you trying to do that? And what are the obstacles that you face in doing that?
And then once we know that, we know the mission, we know what impact they're trying to drive, then we can apply technology. And this is, I think, where my superpower comes in. Something that I feel like I am uniquely positioned to offer advice on is how do we apply technology in creative ways that helps connect people? Your episode about, talking about Toy Story 5 and- how technology can actually distract us, can be something that would pull kids away and prevent them from connecting with each other. We want to do the opposite. We wanna build technology that helps connect people better, that breaks down barriers.
And so what we'll do is we'll consult with them and first understand their challenge, understand what the objective is, and then figure out, and maybe we'll ask, if you were to serve 10 times as many people, whether that's. Pet owners, whether that's individuals in the justice-involved community, or they're reentering into the workforce and they need some support. If you were to serve 10 times as many people, what would need to happen to make that possible? Say, oh, that's just not possible because these two systems don't talk to each other, or it just takes forever to get information from one place to another, or the politics. There are all sorts of challenges that they might face, and I can help them creatively apply technology to help break down the friction. The things that make it harder to accomplish those goals.
Juravich: Well, and I also thank you for being a very devoted listener. You're like quoting shows left and right here. That's lovely. I like to do my homework before I'm on a show. Well, can you share with me a success story, like a business that has benefited from your work, maybe that we've heard of? I mean, I don't want to make you name drop, but will you?
Griffith: Well, sure. So a lot of our clients by nature are not ones that people would recognize because they're the growing innovative organizations, not the ones that are already big. But if you must make me, the Columbus Library is one of our biggest clients and we've been working with them.
Juravich: I've heard of that. You might have a library card.
Griffith: They do some amazing, innovative things. So while they are larger, they still fall in that innovative, growing organization. Since we've been working with them, they've renovated 20 of their 22 branches. They've introduced lots of amazing services. They offer tickets to crew games and museum passes. They just do so many very cool things. Have you been in some of their renovated libraries? Oh yeah.
Juravich: Oh yeah, oh.
Griffith: Does it remind you of the library of our childhood? No. It's different, right? They innovate. They do some very creative things. So that's one of our favorite clients because of the impact they're having, providing access. When you go to a library, who do you see there? You see everyone. Yeah. It is the most diverse swath of our population that you see. It's fantastic that they're serving all sorts of people. So I love working with the library. We've both built their marketing site. We designed and developed their main website. We also host all of their websites and Sir, you help
Juravich: So are you helping them with their hold system that helps with the book?
Griffith: There are certain specialized systems that we don't directly build so they they use a system Polaris is there
Juravich: I'm always just very impressed that I can get my the book just drives around from wherever and shows up where I want it to be I wish I could
Griffith: I wish I could take credit. They have an amazing logistics system. The way that they operate is fantastic. So we deal with a lot of their web-based technology systems. If you've ever reserved a meeting room, they have a little display outside of some of their meeting rooms.
Juravich: There are some meeting rooms that are very popular, but continue. Yes.
Griffith: Yeah, with that I also have these ideas for the library. I'll pitch it to them on the show today. I built a better meeting scheduling system. So I hear from people, they say, oh, you deal with the library and I get all sorts of things. Like, do you deal with the reservation system? Do you deal with the catalog? And one I get frequently is, do you do deal with their meeting booking system? Because it's very hard for me to search and find a meeting room. So I built a better tool for that, that I just did because I wanted to, and I'm getting use out of it. So anyway, a little bit of talk. The city of New Albany, another favorite client. We maintain all of their websites for them. City of Hilliard. And then we do some work for non-profits. BESA is an absolutely fantastic non-profit. We've had BESAs.
Juravich: We've had Bessa on the show. Matthew.
Griffith: Matthew does amazing things. He's a great great leader in the community. We build all their technology and maintain that for them
Juravich: This is Fascinating Ohio from all sides on 89.7 NPR News, and we are talking about Buckeye Innovation with founder and president Brad Griffith. So you made your first website in the sixth grade. I read that. Tell me about it. What did it do? Sure, did you ever read Animal Farm by George Orwell? I read Animal farm, yeah. Fascinating book. So, I had to do a George Orwill's Animal Farm book report and- As one does, yes. As one do. Yes. And so typically, you know, what do you do? You do like a diorama or a book report or you know something like that.
Juravich: My son would make Google slides, but yeah. So now. Yeah.
Griffith: So now it's Google Slides. I used to do PowerPoint presentations. And I would get an automatic A because the teachers were just wowed. They said, what is this amazing technology? This is great. And then it stopped getting me an A automatically. I had to actually read the books. And so I said, let me do something different. And I built a website. And you can still see it if you go to bradgriffith.com. It's my very first personal website. And then there's an Animal Farm link. It looks like it was built in the 90s because it was built it in the nineties.
Juravich: Where you came from. Yeah, absolutely. And you studied computer and electrical engineering, but I also read that that wasn't your first choice. You wanted to be a doctor maybe?
Griffith: I did. Like another one of your guests, Judge Hawk, who was on the program, she wanted to be a doctor and she didn't like chemistry. I was like, this is exactly like my life. I didn't love chemistry. I had a moment at Ohio State when I was in my second chemistry lab of the week. And I remember just pictures. I took my goggles off, turned off my Bunsen burner. I went out in the hallway and I called my now wife, Abby. And I said, I just I love what I'm doing in engineering. I do not have enough of a passion for this chemistry to continue on. So I followed the engineering path.
Juravich: So computer and electrical engineering, did they teach you to build websites or was that not a part of your degree?
Griffith: It's a good question. So there are a lot of different ways to major in computers at Ohio State and probably even more now than when I was there. Oh yeah. And so I was advised to take the electrical engineering route by Dr. Bradley Clymer, who was a professor in electrical engineering. He said, if you want to be a doctor even, electrical engineering is a great way to go because of all the neurons and their electrical signals in our body. So I took it as kind of a backup plan. As you said, it was not the first choice but it was something you couldn't major in pre-med at Ohio state at the time. I'm not sure you can now even. And so I think it was a great way to prepare myself, but honestly, it might be some of my ADHD that I just had a lack of patience.
I didn't wanna wait through all of that school and go through all the licensure and certification. I could build websites. I showed in the sixth grade and in my high school job, I could building websites immediately. And so, I found that I could, back to what are problems we're solving and what skills do I have, I had the skills to help people solve some very important problems. And I said, let me just apply those skills. And it's been a great career.
Juravich: Well, so let's talk a little bit about the technology because you're helping small businesses with tech. But are you worried about AI taking work away from you? Because now I'm told, you know, that a small business can just ask AI to build me a website and it'll do it.
Griffith: It'll do it. Sure. It can. It can't build it the same way that I will build it or that skilled people using those tools can build software much more effectively than people do it themselves. So am I scared? No. I'm super excited about it, honestly, because more so than working with small businesses and me making money, I want equitable access to technology for all businesses and organizations. And what is the one technology that in my lifetime has bridged equity gaps the At Bastin Technology, it's AI. It's because it's doing things for nonprofits that wouldn't have been possible just two years ago.
So a nonprofit who wants their own app, they have, for instance, we built a fundraising platform that for nonprofits who are wanting to raise money at a live event, we can show a progress indicator on a screen and as people donate live, it shows the progress and it's customized to their design. We used it for the City Year Columbus Red Jacket Bash. Just last month. I'm the board chair for City Year Columbus. So it's opened up these opportunities where I can build software much more effectively and efficiently than we used to be able to. And so am I scared about it? No, it's changing our whole industry, but it really it's helping further my mission. And so that's what I care about.
Juravich: So you're you're embracing AI you're using it too. So even though you spent, you know part of your life learning to code You're letting AI help you out with it
Griffith: Absolutely, absolutely. I don't know, in your career, if things have changed and some of the ways that you did things before are not the way you do things now.
Juravich: Yeah, a little bit.
Griffith: That happens to all of us. Technology may move a little bit faster. I was advised one time that for every business over a five to 10 year period, about half of your revenue, half of what you get paid to do is gonna go away. You never know which half, but you've gotta be prepared for that. So it's just another one of those changes where something is changing. My developers, I tell them, you actually writing the code is getting less valuable. So you typing at the keyboard, I don't care as much about that.
What I care about is your creativity. Your ingenuity, the way that you architect software. Because if I tell AI, tell an AI agent to build me something, but I don't describe it well, it's just like me telling a junior employee, telling an intern, hey, go build me this. They might be able to build it, but if I'm not specific and I don't give them objectives and I do give them some guidance about how to build it, it's not gonna get built as well. So there's still plenty of room for what we do. Right. In the industry.
Juravich: Well, and I also saw that recently you were named Small Business Leader of the Year by the Columbus Chamber. What did that recognition mean to you?
Griffith: The chain, I love the chamber. I was on a marketing committee call this morning. I serve on their small business council and their innovation and transformation council. So it's quite an honor. And it's the sort of recognition of peers. I see the chambers, you know, they are the folks who helped to connect us, who helped who engage businesses, to help advocate for businesses. So great recognition. I appreciate it. I want my... I want my mission. I want what we are doing and our clients' work to be highlighted most, so it's always a little bit uncomfortable when I get a recognition.
Juravich: Okay, so you want to talk about the businesses you're helping instead of talking about your award.
Griffith: I would rather look, yeah, let's talk more about what are the problems worth solving, and then how can we help them solve those problems. And if that's a word worthy, great, but if it's just making a difference in people's lives, that's even better.
Juravich: Well, and I also read, you're very prideful of your team, and you've mentioned it a few times, but tell me about the different talents you have working with you. And tell me, about telling them, stop coding and be more creative. Sure, that's how well-
Griffith: Sure, different team members handle that differently. You've got a spectrum from not using AI, still doing things the way that, I mean, innovating in the way that they're still avoiding AI to fully embracing it. So our team, you may not appreciate unless you're in the industry building things that there are a lot of different skillsets involved in building software, building a website, a web app, a mobile app. And primarily on our team we have engineering, software development, design. UI design, UX design, how do things look, how do people flow through an application, and content strategy. And those are the three core components, design, development, strategy, as well as project manager, business development, some of the supporting skills. But there are a lot of skills necessary to build software.
Juravich: Can a business hire you for, do they have to hire you for all three or can they pick one of those things?
Griffith: They could definitely pick one of those things. Yeah, we build web apps and mobile apps, custom software that help people to do their job more efficiently. It might be portals. Anytime someone says, there's gotta be a better way to do this. Usually you can apply some technology to help implement that better way. So you could use us for that. You could use this just for your public facing website, a marketing website. You could us for ongoing support for a website.
The Columbus Library, we have a new very large public company client whose name I won't drop, but They were maintaining over 200 websites for them, doing the hosting, ongoing support and updates for them. So you can definitely use us for just a portion of what we do. Whatever is going to help drive your mission.
Juravich: Have you built any fun apps that you're like, can you tell me, give me an example of something? Yeah, what's something fun?
Griffith: Are you a Disney fan? Yes. OK, so I built an app. And this is one I haven't monetized yet. One of these days I will. But it's called My Mouse Meals. It's available now, mymousemeals.com. So if any of your listeners are going to Disney World, do you have any dietary restrictions in the family?
Juravich: Yeah, my husband's a vegan and I'm, yeah, yeah.
Griffith: So we've got two vegetarians and two dairy-free people in our family. So I built a tool because if you go to Disney World, you have to look up every individual menu. So you go pick a restaurant, pick your meal and look at it. Did I find what I want? No. Find another restaurant. There's got to be a better way, right? So anytime I hear that, it's got to be better way. So I build a tool that indexes across their 10,251 menu items at all of the Disney World restaurants in the Orlando resort area.
And then I more recently went to Disneyland. And so I also built it so that it could handle Disneyland. So it's gotta be a better way. Now you can search based on dietary restriction. There's also an AI search if you say, find me a chocolate dairy-free dessert and it'll give you some advice about that.
Juravich: Well, I'm going to use that the next time I'm in Disney World. All right. Well, we have been talking with Brad Griffith, the founder and president of Buckeye Innovation, a software engineering team located in New Albany that's helping businesses design and build digital tools. Brad, thank you so much for your time today. Thanks for having me, Amy. Appreciate it. And coming up, we're going to talk with the CEO and co-founder of the Women of Color Retail Alliance. That's when Fascinating Ohio from all sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.
You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host Amy Juravich. This is Fascinating Ohio, a show from All Sides and WOSU where we introduce you to people from the Buckeye state with an interesting story to tell. According to the National Retail Federation, there are 55 million retail jobs in America. However, only 6% of those leadership roles are held by women of color. The Women of Color Retail Alliance is working to close that gap by providing training and support networks. CEO and co-founder, Kimberly Lee Minor, has 30 years of executive leadership experience in consumer brands and retail, and is a faculty member at Ohio State's Fisher College of Business. She joins us today. Welcome to All Sides, Kimberly.
Kimberly Lee Minor: Well thank you very much. It's great to be here.
Juravich: So when did it come to your attention that the gap existed in retail jobs for women of color?
Minor: You know, it's interesting, you know. Having my career there, I didn't really notice because if I just go back a little bit, my family was the first black family in the neighborhood I grew up in. I was always the only one in my classes. And it wasn't until college that I started to have a more expanded circle, you know, and when I started my career, I just didn't think about it because that had been the norm. And so I went through Macy's executive training program and then I came here to Columbus to work for Express. And I noticed it, there were just three of us in the executive offices and all the color was in the distribution center. But again, I didn't really think about.
And I had like, it didn't seem to get in my way. I had eight promotions while I worked for Express. It was, you know, and as I moved through my career, and maybe it was the second job that I had when I was in New York, because I left here and moved to New York. I noticed it because I was used to a certain rate of promotion and, you now, movement. And I was doing the same thing. And I was having the same business results, but I wasn't being received the same way. And I started to look around and have some conversations and realized, which is kind of embarrassing, but I realized at that point that it wasn't really about what I was doing, it was more about who I was. And that was the first time that I reached out to people I knew. Now we didn't have LinkedIn, we didn't have any of that then, It was, you know. Early 2000s, but.
Juravich: You literally called them up.
Minor: On the phone, yeah. I literally called them on the phones. And said, hey, when are you gonna be in New York for market week, let's get together, I think we should know each other. And I was introduced to you by such and such and such and so, but when we came together, there were six of us. And I said, you know, Kimberly, it's no different. There are just so few of us who make it to director or VP. And at the time I was a VP. And so that was the first time that I said, we have to do something about this.
Juravich: So you created the Women of Color Retail Alliance and you're trying to offer skills, training services, what types of services do you offer? I mean, do you have classes? Is it networking? What are you doing?
Minor: We do, so number one, we wanted to create community. And so we have actually trademarked a walk where we should know each other. And that's our networking, that's the nucleus for our organization, networking events, our big summit where we bring people together so that they can have exposure to senior leaders and build their network because there's still so few of us in leadership. You have to have that connection because if someone's not sharing your experience or doesn't understand the nuances and the micro-preventions that are happening in your career, then you don't have that support. So that is the nucleus. It's about networking and community.
And then beyond that, we have mentors who are walker-trained mentors, and they come from all areas of business, and they're not women of color. It's a very diverse group of mentors. So if you need a mentor who actually is in the business, is not just a trusted friend that you can talk to, we have mentors and we've worked with different retailers to support their staffs. We also do have training programs that we've work with people in learning and development in corporate, some in retail, just some in business to develop. Training programs for leaders, as well as for workers, for store line and corporate America. We also do a lot of workshops at our summit and we've partnered with the Retail AI Council to do AI training. So, you know, that's important, retail math, because one of the things we heard, because we've talked to so many leaders and said, why, why this gap?
And why are women of color almost just stunted at the broken rung, the first opportunity for advancement, 54% of women of color, and particularly black women, get promoted. So that's half. So you bring in 154 get promoted, and so why is that? And the question always came back to P&L responsibility. They don't understand how to manage P&l. They don't
Juravich: What is that?
Minor: Profit and loss. They don't understand how to manage profit and loss, they don't under stand retail math. Well, I am not a person who had training in retail math, my degree was in radio, television, film, and then I went to grad school, right? I didn't know retail math I had to learn retail math and I had a leader who was willing to give me the resources and training. And so we provide that so that you can't say it anymore. Right, so wherever we as we're talking and people are identifying gaps we try to fill those gaps
Juravich: So it's the Women of Color Retail Alliance. You called it WACRA, is that your? Yes, that's affectionately known as WACR. Okay, and you're across the U.S. And also in Toronto and Montreal. I mean, tell me about broadening your reach. How are you trying to expand? Absolutely.
Minor: Yes. So we are in different cities in the United States. We are here. We're in New York City. We probably have the largest concentration in New York City, we're in Miami, Florida, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and strategically that's where our board members are. So, we have board members across the country and where they are they have grown the attendance to events because we have those networking events. And our networking is not just coming together and sharing cards. Our networking is purposeful. So every networking event has a theme and we'll have a workshop or we'll have a panel discussion. And then we actually show how to effectively network, not just share cards.
And so that's how we've expanded across the United States. And then, we also have a board member who's in Canada. And so we were able to expand into Toronto. And we've done one event in Montreal, but we've don't quite a few in Toronto. And our plan is, we wanna be in every city. There's retail everywhere. And we started this with the number of retail jobs. So there's retail, everywhere. And we want to be a resource for all of the women who work in those retail jobs, so that is a goal of ours to expand across. As many cities as possible in the United States and to go international.
Juravich: This is Fascinating Ohio From All Sides on 89.7 NPR News, and we're talking about the Women of Color Retail Alliance with CEO and co-founder Kimberly Lee Minor. You were recently recognized as one of Columbus Monthly's 2026 Class of Inspiring Women. How did that feel to be told you're inspiring?
Minor: It felt really incredible. Yeah. It really did. It's like, I don't do this to be inspiring. I do this because I think it's so important and I want to leave a legacy. Like I, my mother, I'm an only child and my mom always said, you know, you, and I know that Kamala Harris said that her mother said it, but my mother said it too. And they might've said at the same time cause we were about the same age, but they said, you know you might be the first, but just make sure you're not the last. And when I brought my colleagues together and said, we need to do something, it was so that we really did something and we could make a difference. And so I try to show up in that way in everything I do. And to get that letter that said, congratulations, I was like, that means someone who I don't even know.
Juravich: You don't know who nominated you?
Minor: Well, I found out, but I didn't know I was being nominated, and so that just, it fills my cup and it just makes me want to be even more of who I am and share as much as I can because my life experience has been pretty full and if I can use that to inspire someone, another woman, to help someone, then it feels good at the end of the day and so to be recognized for that. I mean, I don't even there are your cup, your cup running over my cup.
Juravich: So you, I also mentioned at the beginning that you're a faculty member at OSU's Fisher College of Business. What's your role there? Does it tie into retail?
Minor: Well, not necessarily retail, but it does tie into finding opportunity and bringing people to the opportunities. So I started as an adjunct strategic brand management, teaching seniors, and then also taught in the MHRM program for leadership. I don't know what those letters are. So it's HR. Masters of HR. Got it. At Fisher in the grad school. And after I think maybe two and a half years, there was an opportunity to actually use my experience in building teams, processes, and. Process improvement in the Office of Career Management. And so I took that on as a project and I am now the Interim Executive Director there.
And we've had incredible success just thinking differently and connecting with students to see what they need. And then because I'm still in industry, and I, you know, of course retail, but other industry, I have relationships with hiring managers and senior executives across the board, and they like to talk about business, and they like talk about where they're going, which leads to, well, what opportunities do you have for our incredible Fisher students? And so leading that team, creating new processes, and we have a new program that we're trying to stand up for spring of 27 called Pathways. And it's to create pipelines for students, but not in a traditional way. Traditionally, when you're a junior, you go to a career fair, you get an internship. Well, we know in the economic situation as it is now, it's not that easy.
So how do we get our students even more exposed, more internships? Well, Pathways starts your second semester of your freshman year, and it gives you exposure. Generally, just exposure to different jobs, different industries, different companies. We have people coming in to speak and job shadowing. And then your sophomore year, it's a little more immersive, it's more cohort focused, and we work with companies, right? And so from there, now you have experience. So when you're interviewing for that internship, you have an advantage. And then that internship can lead to a job. And so I feel like that is like same kind of path that we're creating with women of color in retail, because we are finding the gaps, trying to close those gaps so that people have.
Juravich: The opportunities that they should. Unfortunately, we only have a minute left, but what do you want people to know about your organization that you co-founded? I mean, the Women of Color Retail Alliance, just give people a takeaway if you want them to know one more thing about it.
Minor: Does not have a gender and does not have a color. And everyone should have the opportunity to be as big as they can be. And we want to make sure that that happens for everyone. Because if we focus on women of color, that means that everyone can win. Our programs are always inclusive. And we wanna make a difference for the future.
Juravich: We've been talking about the Women of Color Retail Alliance with CEO and co-founder, Kimberly Lee Minor. Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you. And this is Fascinating Ohio from all sides on 89.7 NPR News. Thanks for joining us for Fascinating, Ohio. I wanna say thanks to the all side staff, producers, Marcus Charleston and Erin Esmott Rabinowitz. Our student producers are Iza Huck, Colin Simpson and Brianna Fortunet. Our student producer from Denison University is Ellen Hansen. Video production by The Ohio Channel and board operation is by Chris Johnston and Trey Hayes. Thank you so much for listening. This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News.