Columbus Landmark has released its 2026 Most Endangered Sites list.
Included are the Fairwood Elementary School on Columbus’ east side and the Beacon Building downtown.
The buildings are a connection to the city’s past, provide character, and attract development and tourism.
However, while they may appear solidly built, letting them sit abandoned leaves them vulnerable to vandalism, declining property values, and loss of revenue for the city.
Coming up, we’re talking about the most endangered sites in the city and what can be done to save them.
Guests:
- Chris Hune, CEO of Columbus Landmarks Foundation
- Dale Ward, construction manager with Small Nation
- Frank Quinn, director of preservation for Heritage Ohio
Transcript
This transcript is generated with AI. To ensure its accuracy, review the audio file.
Amy Juravich: Welcome to All Sides with Amy Juravich. Whether it's a school, an office building, or a home, historic landmarks provide character and a connection to the city's past. They also can be economic engines for development and tourism, if utilized in the right way. Each year, the nonprofit Columbus Landmarks, which focuses on the preservation and awareness of these buildings, releases a list of what it considers endangered sites.
We're looking at the preservation, restoration, and repurposing of Ohio's historic buildings this hour. And we begin our conversation by talking about that 2026 list of buildings on the most endangered sites list. Joining us now is Chris Hune, Chief Executive Officer of the Columbus Landmarks Foundation. Welcome to all sides, Chris.
Chris Hune: Thank you.
Juravich: So I wanted to start with your list. Your new list has about six buildings on it for the 2026 list. And one of the buildings on it is called the Beacon Building. So I want to start with the Beacon Building because that one might be the most familiar to people. You know, if they take a quick glance at your list, they'll think, oh, I've seen that. It's 50 West Gay Street in downtown Columbus. It says Beacon Building right on the top. You have to look up, but you'll be able to see it. So this building is owned by the city of Columbus. Why does your group consider it at risk?
Hune: So I think a lot of people would be surprised a little bit just because a lot of people drive by it all the time and they wouldn't think anything of it other than it's just an office building. But it has a mid-century modern architecture to it. You have to kind of get up high a little bit to actually appreciate the overall architectural features of it. We actually have a video of all of our endangered sites which has a drone video of the building that gives a little more perspective.
Juravich: I have to say, it looks prettier from the drone footage than it does from the ground, but continue.
Hune: Yes, yes. So that was really where that came from. All of our properties that we consider are all nominated by the community. We don't go out and solicit them. They are submitted to us so that we can then consider them, whether it's their history, their architectural features or both.
Juravich: So someone in the community is concerned about the future of the Beacon Building, basically. Okay. So do you know why it's called the Beacons Building? I meant to look that up before we started. So it was originally- Is that a name? Yes.
Hune: So it was originally the Beacon Mutual Indemnity Company. So it is an insurance company back in the day. So it built in 1957. So it had that purpose until the city of Columbus purchased it.
Juravich: Okay, so the city of Columbus used it for years for offices, but now is it just empty?
Hune: It is empty right now.
Juravich: Oh, okay. So it sits at the corner. I mean, this, the city is doing a lot of development on Gay Street, so it sits right there on 50 West Gay Street. But it's still sitting empty.
Hune: Correct.
Juravich: Has there been any, do you know, have you inquired, do know anything about what the city plans to do with it?
Hune: They have not shared what their current plans are with us, so we'll keep an eye on that as we do with all of our endangered properties.
Juravich: Okay, so by you declaring, so someone came to your group and said, I'm worried about this building, and then your group decided to put it on your endangered list, what does that mean exactly to be on the endangered list?
Hune: So all we are doing basically is being awareness. We are the people that we're not there to point the fingers at the owners currently. What we're there is to create some awareness of the properties and the potential for them to maybe be redeveloped or repurposed. So that's really what our focus is.
Juravich: Okay. So if you, if it is to be redeveloped and repurposed, um, you would hope that it doesn't get torn down because what you're saying.
Hune: Absolutely.
Juravich: Okay, but I mean if it's sitting empty you have to think that the city Maybe has some plans to do something with it or do they just let things sit empty
Hune: I don't think I've ever seen a city building sit empty for too terribly long. Obviously this one has been there for a while, but we hope that they've got some plans for it or that they got a developer that they may be negotiating with at some point that may repurpose it. Obviously the city's got a lot of housing issues that they're dealing with and maybe this could be a new housing development, so.
Juravich: And you would hope though, A, that they wouldn't tear it down first of all, but then B, that they wouldn't significantly change the look of it. Is that what you mean?
Hune: Correct.
Juravich: Yeah, tell me more about that.
Hune: Well, any time that you have an impact on a building with its exterior, you're creating an issue with the history of the building. So what we want to do is we want to preserve the history, want to preserve the architecture, because when it's gone, it's gone and it's forgotten. So what want to is we to preserve that architectural feature or the history of that building.
Juravich: Do you care much about what they do to the ends?
Hune: Um, not as much because, you know, obviously, you know, we, we've got to move forward and we know that, you know we've, we're, we got to be progressive, progressive as a community, um, you know, with Columbus being one of the largest, um, fastest growing communities in the country, we've gotta acknowledge that. So what we want to do is hope that they will be thoughtful in their redevelopment.
Juravich: Okay. Um, so, okay. So then I wanted to move on to another building that made it to your list. That's made a little bit of news recently. Um, it's called it's Fairwood elementary school. So this is a building in the driving park neighborhood and it is owned by Columbus city schools and it's one of the buildings that Columbus city schools has decided to close. So this past, um, just a couple of weeks ago, there was the last school year in Fairwood, elementary school, what, um what are you worried about with this building?
Hune: So, we want to preserve the history of this one. This one was designed by Dwight Howard Smith, a very famous architect who actually designed the Ohio Stadium. And this was actually his first school that he designed after he finished the stadium. So it's the history that so much. And then the neighborhood. You know, schools are kind of an anchor in their neighborhoods. And when you see that go away, it just creates a void. And so we want to preserve that.
And again, it's got such a great history that we think that it could be repurposed. There's been so many schools in Columbus that have been repurpos. We've had several success stories with repurpose schools. One of them, just as an example, the Open Air School in Clintonville. It's now repurposes into a restaurant, a coffee shop, an event space. There's other examples of repurposed schools. Barrett Middle School, south of German Village, it's now apartments. So I think there's a lot of opportunities with schools to keep them intact and give them a new life.
Juravich: So someone in the community alerted you, maybe that Columbus City Schools was planning on closing this and they were worried about the building. Is that right? And so Columbus City schools owns the building, have they indicated what they wanna do with the building?
Hune: They have not specifically indicated it. I know that there was press around them demolishing all these schools. Again, what we're trying to do is just create some awareness and hopefully maybe a developer will see that and maybe start pursuing maybe a redevelopment of that property.
Juravich: Now, Columbus City Schools is having some money problems. Everyone is well aware of that. So that's a part of the reason they're closing some of these buildings. So they have, Columbus city schools has a lot of buildings. One could argue too many buildings. And a lot them are very old and in need of a lot repairs. So if Columbus city Schools can't afford to keep this building up, which is why they decided to close the school, do you, are you asking them?
Hune: To save it? Well, we would hope that they would maybe take it to market. Again, they're not talking to us specifically about what their plans are for it, so we're not getting a lot of information. But again, rather than pointing the finger at them, we would like to say, hey, is there somebody else in the community who sees the potential in building and maybe, you know, create a new space for it.
Juravich: Okay. Do you know whether the land would be worth more money than an old building on it itself?
Hune: I do not. No.
Juravich: Okay. So, Columbus City Schools would have to have a real estate agent determine for them how much they could sell it for versus tearing it down. Is that right? So, you would want to advocate for selling it as is.
Hune: Yes.
Juravich: So, you're not asking Columbus City schools to hold on to an old buildings just for fun?
Hune: No, no, no.
Juravich: Well, also because these buildings need to be taken care of they can't come city schools can't just sit there and let it fall apart, right?
Hune: No, absolutely. And we recognize that. But again, you know, you think about the surrounding neighborhood and what would it what's going to be the impact of that school if it goes down. So, you know again, there's I think there's opportunities again, going back to the housing. There's, I think, there are opportunities for that. So I think you know we just that they would have look at a plan B rather than just demo.
Juravich: Rather than just demo. Okay, so you're raising awareness, trying to make the community aware that a demo is possible though, right?
Hune: Always it's possible.
Juravich: Okay. And once it's torn down, I mean, you can't get it back, right? But there's this phrase that I've heard before and in the research for the show, you know, the greenest building is the one that's already built. So is that true? Like even if it's a really old building that needs a lot of repairs, is that better than building new?
Hune: In my mind, yes. I mean, unless it's structurally unsafe, yes, I think there are so many potentials for a property that it's better to look at a new purpose for it than it is just to tear it down.
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 and. We're talking about the Columbus Landmarks 2026 Most Endangered Sites List, and we're talking with Chris Hune, Chief Executive Officer, CEO of the Columbus landmarks foundation. So tell me more about creating this endangered sites list. So if you add sites to the list every year, it must be a pretty long list by now, right?
Hune: Right? We have well over a hundred. You know, we've got, I would say, and people can look at it on our website, columbuslandmarks.org, we actually have a map and it gives you the status of every single property that we have, whether it's been saved, whether its been lost, or if it's in flux that it's still sitting there with no activity, or it may say it's under review that maybe somebody's considering, you know, renovating the property. So I will say we've about 25% of successes of buildings being saved. A little under 15% that have been completely lost, and the rest are all in flux. So I will say that we're optimistic that our efforts are going to prove fruitful.
Juravich: Okay, but your group, you don't drive around the city looking at buildings and saying, that looks in danger, that looks endangered. Tell me about your process.
Hune: No. Again, what we do is we solicit nominations from the community. You know, you can get that on our website. It's there all the time. And then we have a committee that reviews all of them, and it will look at the architectural significance, the historical significance of it, and they will narrow it down to a group that they want to make known for the coming year.
Juravich: Okay. And so the fact that this list this year has six on it, does it, do you normally do six or?
Hune: We know it fluctuates and we've had as many as nine. So this year they got it down. It's technically five because one property is too adjacent. But yeah, but yeah, it's it's somewhere between five and eight to nine.
Juravich: OK, so let's talk about another building on the list. It's called the Courtright School. It's in Linwood on the east side of the city. Tell me why this building is special.
Hune: So this one is another one that was designed by Dwight Howard Smith.
Juravich: Dwight again. Yes.
Hune: So the man he actually has a storied history and he's done almost two dozen Columbus City schools over the years plus some in Upper Arlington including Jones Middle School which has been getting some press recently. So what we're trying to do is we're just trying to capture the history of his works and it hasn't been a school for quite some time. And it was just recently purchased by a faith-based organization. So we're just watching it to see what's going to happen with it. But it had such an interesting Egyptian revival architecture to it that that's the reason it was nominated.
Juravich: OK, now. I looked at pictures of all your buildings, and I have to say, no offense to Dwight or the court-right school, but it was not a very pretty-looking building. Tell me what I'm missing.
Hune: So, it's essentially like the repurposing of the architecture, like I said, the Egyptian revival is significant. The fact that it has that history with Dwight Smith, that's really where the focus is. Yeah, some of them are not going to be very pretty, but there's a history to them. And there's the architecture that came along with them, and maybe they're not sitting on such a nice grounds property anymore, but they are significant, and they were significant to their neighborhoods.
Juravich: Okay, so just because I don't think it looks pretty by the eye doesn't mean that it automatically just deserves to be torn down.
Hune: Correct. Correct. I mean, we have to do something about it. Correct. We have one on there that's on Carpenter Street that if you look at it, it looks very, very rough. But it's in an up and coming neighborhood in Southern Orchards. And there's just such a potential there. And it's close to German Village. And I think if you see the brick there, you kind of can get why it could be a really great place if somebody wanted to put some love into it.
Juravich: Yeah, okay. So let's talk about that one. It's on Carpenter Street. It is the South Orchards neighborhood is near German Village. This building was built in 1872. That is that's old for Columbus, right. So it is it is empty right now?
Hune: It is empty. I believe the community is using it for some storage, but it's got some structural issues. We don't know what its current status is. I don't if it's for sale, but the potential is there. So somebody wanted to bring that to our attention.
Juravich: So someone who maybe lives around there walks by it every day, is worried about it. Now that building did look like it was kind of falling down. I mean, I didn't drive past it. I'm just looking at pictures. So is that an example of a building that might be cheaper to tear down rather than fix up?
Hune: Yes, but again, because of where it is, again, Southern Orchards has gotten to be a very up and coming area. It's just south of Children's Hospital, so I'm hoping that somebody would see the potential of it. Obviously, it's again from the 1800s, 1872, so we just think somebody will embrace the history of that and repurpose it into something.
Juravich: So you're trying to raise awareness. We want people to be aware that these buildings need some help and need some love. And you're hoping a developer out there hears you.
Hune: Right, and if somebody wants to visit these, we actually have an annual bus tour, which this year is going to be on August 7th from 12 to 4. It is a members only, so you have to join Columbus Landmarks in order to be a part of the registration, but we serve lunch. But we will take you to each one of these properties, and you can look at them up close and personal.
Juravich: Okay, so before we run out of time, let's just round out your list, and we can talk about the last one on the list. It's also in German Village, and it's listed as numbers 147 to 157 Thurman Avenue. Tell me about that.
Hune: Yeah, so that's actually just two properties, 147 and 157, so they're side by side. They sit on a large lot and in actuality that property has been considered for redevelopment before. It has come before the German Village Commission, but we're not sure what happened because the owners backed off of the project. So we're still trying to get some more information on that. But it's too large. Homes. They're beautiful. If you drive past them, they have a great presence about them. They're just, unfortunately, the windows are boarded up, but they're really nice properties. So we hope that somebody will think about that and redevelop it.
Juravich: When you put something on your list, do you sometimes hear from the person who owns it? Does that, like, cause if it makes news and makes attention, does that bring it to the attention of the person who owns that where they're like, let me tell you about it.
Hune: Yeah, at times that are, and we try to reach out to all the owners to try to get some kind of history from them, and sometimes we get a response and sometimes, we don't. So we are hoping that on this bus tour, some of these people that have been involved with some of the properties will also be available at those sites to discuss the property themselves.
Juravich: And so in your opinion, just overall, how does the City of Columbus do when in terms of historic preservation, caring about older buildings, preserving the history here?
Hune: So I know that there was a big topic these days. There are some challenges, full disclosure. I live in German village, so I have a propensity towards restoring things. And I know there's also questions about density. So what we want to do is we just want to preserve the history. I mean, we could not be where we are now if we hadn't preserved what we had before. So what want to is just let's not tear down old just because it's old. Let's preserve it. Let's talk about how we can repurpose it. Um, you know, there's, I think there's progressive, um, development that can be done, but I think it needs to be done thoughtfully.
Juravich: And can residents get involved? I mean, you said you live in German village. You're the CEO of Columbus landmarks, so you're obviously very involved. But besides reporting a building to you, what can residents do if they live near something that they care about?
Hune: Almost every property is associated with a commission. They would go to the local commissions in their neighborhoods. They can contact our office and get involved with things. We're happy to do that. We wanna be a resource for everybody. So we hope people will do that, we hope that people will join Columbus Landmarks and utilize all of our resources.
Juravich: And what do you say to the people who say that some of these old buildings and keeping them historic and worrying about the look of them is just getting in the way of modern development?
Hune: Again, you can't move forward without appreciating what we had. And once a building has been damaged or destroyed, the history is gone. And then it's kind of lost to history. So I think that there's a good merging of the two that we could do. I know it's a challenge for some people, but I think we can be a partner together.
Juravich: Our guest has been Chris Hune, Chief Executive Officer of Columbus Landmarks Foundation. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Hune: Thank you.
Juravich: And coming up, we're going to talk about efforts to tell the stories of historic buildings around the state. That's when All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.
You're listening to All Sides, I'm your host, Amy Juravich. Around the state, there are old buildings, historic structures, and other pieces of Ohio history in danger of being lost. Heritage Ohio is working to empower people, to help them work to save the places that matter to them, build community, and live better. Heritage Ohio has saved sites from the wrecking ball and is preserving Ohio history. Joining us now is Frank Quinn, Director of Preservation for Heritage Ohio. Welcome to the show.
Frank Quinn: Thanks, Amy.
Juravich: So your group has worked to save many buildings around the state over the years. Can we start off with maybe, do you have a favorite success story of a building you've saved?
Quinn: So for Heritage Ohio we've been very active on an advocacy level and so a lot of times what we're doing is giving folks at the local level ideas, information, tools to help them then save those threatened buildings. We had a program called Top Opportunities which we have used over the years. Um, and my favorite story was, uh, going down to Cincinnati to the lower Price Hill neighborhood, there was a former Catholic church complex. It consisted of church, rectory school, additional buildings, and it was occupied by a nonprofit organization, uh known as community matters, and they're focused on helping community folks, um, improve quality of life.
So these buildings were underutilized. They were deteriorated. We worked with them to talk about some of the tools that they could use to rehab buildings, some of incentives available. And we like to say that, you know, you drink the Kool-Aid, you become a preservationist, and they were able to invest a lot of money to- bring these buildings up to code to make them fully utilized and to preserve the historic character in them. And so that was like that as a great story.
Juravich: Yeah, a group called Preservation Ohio has a list of the most endangered buildings in the state. On that list are churches, court buildings, a hotel in Middletown, Ohio, even the Rockefeller building in Cleveland. We don't have time to talk about every building on the list, but is there anything that you would like to highlight that is a building that is endangered that maybe your group is working to help people learn how to save it? Yeah.
Quinn: Yeah, not only this year, but it seems like over the last 25 years, schools continue to show up on these lists. Not only the schools that Chris was highlighting in Columbus, but schools in communities big and small across the state of Ohio. And as Chris mentioned, there are great examples, not in Columbus of success stories, But... In Nelsonville, Washington Courthouse, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and communities large and small, there have been great examples where these schools have been adapted to new uses, whether it's residential. So we feel like it's unfortunately short-sighted to say we can't use it as a school anymore, so we need to demolish it and cart all the materials off to the landfill and start all over again.
Juravich: What do you say to people who think that it's cheaper to just tear it down than to renovate an old building because an old building is full of old problems?
Quinn: So yeah, if you look at it from a standpoint of how much does it cost to demo a building as opposed to how much it costs to rehab it, fix it up, it's going to be cheaper to tear down that old building. But then you have to start over from scratch again. So you're building a new building. And a lot of times, buildings are getting this way because they've suffered through decades of neglect. So, think of it like... You're buying a car and you're driving it off the lot. And so you can make a choice right then and there. Okay, I'll do oil changes four times a year, 100 bucks a pop, or I'm just gonna drive it.
I'm gonna ignore the oil changes. And for that person who's ignoring the oil changes after three years, they haven't spent any money on it. The other person spent over $1,000. So they're looking pretty smart until the end of year three and they blow their engine. So now they're looking at $10,000, or I'm just gonna buy another new car for $40,000. And so sometimes it feels like that's what we're seeing with historic buildings. You have property owners who are, they're neglecting the maintenance piece of it. So they're not spending a little bit now, but they have these big headaches later when something big happens.
Juravich: Are there groups out there to help people who own old buildings fix them up along the way? Or is your group one of those?
Quinn: Yeah, it's interesting because especially in the last five, six years, as we're seeing the price of construction materials go up, the price labor is going up, especially owners of historic homes, they're getting more into a DIY mindset. And so we've done programs. One of our favorite is called a sash mob and so what we-
Juravich: A sash mob. Sash mob. I don't know what that means. OK, just playing.
Quinn: Like the cash mob of a few years ago. So instead the sash mob is we're descending on a historic building that has windows in need of reconditioning. So we have a professional instructor over the course of a weekend usually. And we have people who sign up and they're learning the process from start to finish on how you take those old neglected windows and rejuvenate them.
Juravich: I just realized you're talking about a window sash now. I'm with you Sash mob as far as fixing up your old windows. Yeah, so Well, see, that's the worst. I live in a house that's 115 years old, and we had windows that we could not open. So OK, I'm with you. Right, right.
Quinn: Right, right. So yeah, yeah. And you can repair the windows, you can put an interior storm in, exterior storms. You can do things that bring that window up to a level of energy efficiency that can be nearly comparable to the best window you can buy that's manufactured today.
Juravich: I won't tell you what we did to our windows. I needed a sash mob, I can tell you that much. Okay, so talk to me about whether buildings need the idea of putting them on an endangered list versus whether they need a historic designation. Does a building need a historical designation? Does someone need to declare it for it to be saved?
Quinn: So it's interesting because you have building declarations at the federal level through the national register and that you can say a building's on the national register but that will not prevent a building from being demolished. It's more like what you see in German village where you have a local design review board and an entity like the city of Columbus that's saying This neighborhood is historic. We have historic buildings here and you're not typically allowed to tear down a historic building in that local district. So it does, a lot of times people think that, Well, there's a building on the National Register. It's protected, right?
Juravich: But that's not necessarily the case. Yeah. Okay. I did not know that. This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about endangered sites and how to save them from the wrecking ball while preserving Ohio history with Frank Quinn, Director of Preservation for Heritage Ohio. So your group has a new initiative that you are starting called 250 Buildings, 250 Stories, Which I'm guessing relates to America's 250th birthday So tell me about the goals of this. Are you trying to just tell the stories of old buildings so people care about them more?
Quinn: We do wanna see that. It's important that there's a connection to your past, part of the shared heritage that we all have. And so this is a great opportunity for us to either highlight buildings that a community loves and they want to share the pride that they have in that building with other folks. It's also an opportunity for people to share information about a building that needs some TLC, that maybe was once great, a key part of the community. It's not so great at this point, it needs some investment. And so what we're hoping to do is raise awareness for those buildings that are endangered, but also let the folks have a chance to celebrate the buildings that make their community the unique place that it is.
Juravich: How are you doing on gathering your 250 stories? Do you have them all?
Quinn: So we're still accepting submissions and we are, I think we're going to start highlighting those submissions on our website and on our social media sites. So if you like Old Billings, it's a great opportunity to check out what people have submitted so far and to maybe look at the building in your community.
Juravich: Are you looking all around the state? I mean, we're not just talking central Ohio, right? Correct. Okay. So are you trying to like maybe get a building included from every county or do you have any goals like that?
Quinn: Yeah, that would be great. So 88 counties and it would be great to have at least three buildings.
Juravich: From each county. Doing a little quick math there.
Quinn: Yeah, yeah.
Juravich: Unfortunately, not every building that has historic significance can be saved. Is there a way, does your group have a way to prioritize what can be preserved and renovated and what you have to just declare a loss?
Quinn: So from our approach has been to try to incentivize to make it easier to save historic buildings. So Heritage Ohio was instrumental back in from 2000 to 2007 of shepherding the Ohio Historic Preservation Tax Credit through the state legislature. When that legislation was enacted, what that allowed people who had income producing properties was to apply for a tax credit to help defray the cost of the rehab. So we're trying to take a what can we do as a small organization to have the most bang for our buck across the state. And so legislation can be an effective tool to do that.
Juravich: Now, we just spent the previous segment talking with Columbus Landmarks. They're a group here in central Ohio. They have a list of endangered buildings in Columbus. They add to that list every year. But I have to imagine that not every city has its own landmarks foundation group like that. So is that where your group comes in? Do you help places that maybe don't have a Columbus Landmark on their side?
Quinn: That's what we do. We get a lot of calls and emails from folks who, I've got a historic building, not mine, but we have a historic in the center of our town and it's falling apart or there's a new building owner, we're not sure what their motivation is and they don't have, they're not fortunate like Columbus to have a group like Columbus Landmarks. So we try to go in and do what we can to give them ideas about advocacy that they could achieve at a local level.
Also, again, going back to schools, a lot of times we'll hear from folks, they'll say, we have a school district where we have our historic 1930s building and there's a levy issue to demo the building and replace it with a new building that's being built. Off that site. What can we do?
Juravich: And then what do you tell them? What can they do?
Quinn: And so that's, that's when we come in and I think it really comes down to school districts making decisions about, um, what they, what they want to see happen is the historic building. You can, the great thing about historic buildings is that they're adaptable. And so you can go in and you can have modern technology in an old building. You can have modern systems in an old building.
Juravich: Oh, forcing air conditioning into a 100-year-old building is hard though. Yeah.
Quinn: So and and technology continues to change. And so you have systems where you can do air conditioning by room if you have an exterior wall. So I guess it also comes down to where there's a will to save a building. There's a way to do it. Hopefully in a way that doesn't destroy the pocketbook in the process of doing that.
Juravich: What do you say to a district like Columbia City Schools that has hundreds of buildings, all of which are old and all of what are in need of repair, but this district is also having money problems. I mean, what do you to them to help them decide to preserve an old building versus when everyone wants new, everyone wants their school to look new and nice?
Quinn: So we don't want Columbus City Schools to be a landlord to a bunch of vacant buildings that are a drain on their coffers. But by the same token, you can have a building and say, it's going to cost whatever amount of money to demolish it. And then maybe we have a parcel of property that's worth some money, or maybe it's not worth a lot of money, depending on the location of it. But what we would advocate certainly is to, if you don't wanna see that building used as a school anymore, can you get it into the hands of a developer who has a vision to see that as something like the open air school in Clintonville for commercial use, or with the vision to redevelop it into housing?
Juravich: That's the second time the open air school in Clintonville has come up this hour. Where is this located? The open air? Or you don't know off the top of your head? Okay.
Quinn: It's in Clintonville.
Juravich: Yes, I got it. All right.
Quinn: And yeah it's just it's it's amazing architects with creative vision what you can take and uh make make new again
Juravich: We have been speaking about saving historic buildings and what can be done with Frank Quinn, Director of Preservation of Heritage Ohio. Thank you so much for your time today, Frank.
Quinn: Thanks.
Juravich: And coming up, we're gonna talk about how restoration and revitalization of old buildings can serve as an economic engine for the community. That's when All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News. Thanks for watching. See you next time.
You're listening to All Sides, I'm your host Amy Juravich. In addition to providing a connection to a community's past and esthetic value, older buildings can serve as an economic engine. Whether they're restored or refurbished, many cities and towns across the nation have recognized the value in saving these properties. Joining us now to talk about the process and economic impact of restoring old buildings and what it can have on the community is Dale Ward, construction manager for Small Nation. A real estate development company located in Bellefountaine. Welcome to All Sides Dale.
Dale Ward: Thanks Amy, thanks for having me.
Juravich: So from theaters to courthouses to businesses, Bellefountaine has some impressive old buildings that have been around for more than a century. And tell me about the key to restoring these buildings and what it means to a small town.
Ward: Well first there a lot of history there and a lot things and a people don't want to lose those Sometimes a lot the downtown people respect their history in their downtown So we you know, they could take and remove them haven't demolished and stuff like that But that's not what we're about. We'd like to try and bring them back see what the bare bones are like Which is what we base a lot our construction Philosophies off of and and see what they can bring back to down to the downtown
Juravich: So tell me about the idea. So mainly you're trying to save the facade, like the outside of the building. Do you worry about saving the inside of the building? Is there history inside? What if there's history inside too?
Ward: Oh, it's unbelievable. I wish you could see how some of the things that we have found But yes We start with the facade to make sure that it's good and get it all weathertight and everything for that And then when you get inside you see what if how much damage had been done from sitting all the years and stuff that it? Been Unoccupied or anything like that, but then to bring back. What was original That's what we like to do and we find so much like the hardwood floors or something that are just can be beautiful when they're refinished and stuff like that and we like Try to either bring back the downtown living or get your office in there.
Juravich: So as a construction manager, how do you balance historic preservation and the desire people have for things to look new and modern?
Ward: Well, again, we start with looking how bad the building really is. Is it worth that time and effort, which most of our downtown buildings have been in that respect there. But then with our company, Small Nation, we reach out to a lot of tenants and stuff that have needs or look for people looking to start a new business or something and see, will it fit? Is it missing something downtown for us that could thrive and meet that new look for the building itself?
Juravich: Have you come across a building where you just, you said, I can't save this one? Have you had that happen yet?
Ward: Yes, I had we had we just recently took possession of why I mean it's going to be a challenge Yeah, and it's just based on again cost and things like that things right now are really kind of high dollar for things Interest rates are high and so it's it's a challenge and it is going to a tricky one for this one
Juravich: Yeah. Okay, so sometimes even someone who loves a historic building, they could admit that it may be more economically friendly to tear it down and save it. Is that true? Is that true?
Ward: That is true. Okay.
Juravich: Um, have you had people in the, maybe in this building's case, do they argue with you? Do they tell you we need to try to save it? Or do you just have to, you know, dollars and cents make a difference sometimes?
Ward: Well, we have a lot of great people in our organization. We work with a lot a great people, architects and designers and stuff as well. So we all kind of work together. This again was one that I felt was gonna be a really challenge, probably one of our largest ones, but with their ideas and their perspectives that they would like to meet and then what is needed downtown, we have already tenants that would be loving to have this space already, we have decided to move forward. So yeah, it's-
Juravich: So you're going to put.
Ward: We are going to do it.
Juravich: All right, all right. Tell me about bringing buildings up to code. I mean, when buildings are first constructed, I can't imagine how few codes there are compared to building codes now. How does that impact your work?
Ward: Our biggest challenge that we have right now is if we do a lot of first floor storefronts and things like businesses and stuff like that and then turn around and if you put in housing up above and stuff, that's where we get into the largest challenge of code wise and stuff. Then you have to either look at a sprinkler system or then you have look at some type of a wired alarm system for smoke and things that communicate with each other. And that's what's our biggest challenges, but there's a lot of things if you know being the historical buildings we get a lot out of existing conditions and stuff like that.
So it allows us to you know because of the masonry most of the masonry walls are 14 plus inches thick so that helps a lot.
Juravich: Is that a good thing?
Ward: That is a good thing. Okay. So firewalls and things like that is huge and then we've even found some you know steel fire doors that separated from one building to the next where actually connected together. But then the largest is just from floor to floor if you do that, and it's only in that aspect when it's – if it's business to business, not so much an issue. But when you put living quarters above, that's where we have to be a little more code efficient.
Juravich: Okay. Can you get exemptions from anything if you're saving a historic building? Not that the city is going to look another way on a building code, but I mean like, will they let you leave the old windows even if maybe they don't open the way a code would want them to?
Ward: We do, there are situations where we can do that. Again, commercial business style for businesses, we're okay with a lot of that. Having the original lead glass design, which we have a lot, we have beautiful L-shaped building called the Historic Opera Block right now. And we're refinishing that right now, it had a lot the original windows in it and stuff, and they're really neat, historical windows. But in the living quarters, which we are on the second floor going to put residential in, we will have to change those out. And then so
Juravich: So the business can have the old windows, but maybe where people live.
Ward: When you have someone that could possibly be in the space 24 hours, seven days a week, that's when you have to look at code-wise.
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about the process and the economic impact of restoring old buildings and what that can have on a community with Dale Ward, construction manager for Small Nation. It's a real estate development company located in Bell Fountain. Bell Fountains done a lot of work in preservation and Small Nation has done a of work in building Bell Fountain anew, right? What are the first steps you take whenever you. You approach a building in your area and you look at it and you say whether we're gonna preserve it, how we're going to restore it, like what's your very first step?
Ward: Well, we look at a lot of several things there. We meet as a group with our architects, designers, and then we look the outside itself first. How good is the bare bones and stuff like that? Is it watertight? Water is really bad on buildings and stuff, and over the years, especially if they've just been sitting, and we look that and then run inside and take a look at what's the inside like, like you had mentioned earlier. Is there things in there that we can save money? At because we can restore itself sometimes it is actually cheaper to restore something than it is to put brand new in but we do have people that say different sometimes but because i think a lot of that is because it might be easier too because it's a lot of hard work to try and re-bring stuff restore something back in stuff
Juravich: We talk a lot on this show about AI and whether it's replacing jobs or not, but one thing that AI can't do is replace skilled trades people, masonry, plumbing, people who understand how to save historic hardwood floors. Tell me about the skills you need to find the people you need working in these buildings.
Ward: Again, we have a joint vocational school really close to us and they were really well known for our trade schools and stuff like that, but over the last probably seven, eight years that it kind of went to the wayside. However, locally here just recently in the last two years we've been able to start to bring those trades back. We do need like a highly skilled plumber and HVAC systems and then our electrical and stuff that as well. We are fortunate that we have several what we call specialized roofing contractors in our area, which helps a lot being right there locally too.
Juravich: Tell me about, I mean, have you run into, like, what are some of the biggest issues? Is it old plumbing or is it old electrical? You know, have run into all that old knob and tube wiring that is stuck inside the walls?
Ward: We have. Both of those and a lot of the plumbing it'd be the old cast.
Juravich: Yeah stuff
Ward: Which is hard very heavy to try and remove and stuff Because we tried to retake it out of there and stuff and put in a brand new PVC or something like that The knob and tube we have ran into some of that and stuff in there But it's not as frequent as it you would find in residential area or not your stuff. But yeah And then dealing with our electric, some of our spaces require three phase electric and stuff for our restaurants because we do have seven restaurants downtown now that we have gone in some of spaces.
Juravich: What does three phase mean?
Ward: That's the electric where you have single phase which would be just standard electric, but three phase you have three transformers that require a lot of like for specialty ovens and hoods and things like that require a of electric outage.
Juravich: Are you finding that you have enough people who know how to do this skilled work to do all the work you need or are you always looking for more people?
Ward: We're always looking for more people. Right now, we also do all the maintenance as well. We have 89 properties right now that we manage as far as maintenance and preventive maintenance and stuff. Trades and stuff, again, is hard to find. We are fortunate that we do have electrical company local that we use quite often and then also HVAC. Our plumbing situation has been our largest challenge. Having a state license in our area is kind of thin right now. And so we do have two or three that we utilize, and just depending on the application and what we need and how busy they are, because there's only two or 3, so.
Juravich: And you mentioned you've been doing this.
Ward: For several years.
Juravich: So we, you know, we talked in the previous segment about how important upkeep is on these old buildings. So I'm sure you've gotten to the point where some buildings that you've already restored need upkeep. Are you, do you talk with the owners about what they need to be doing so that they don't get into the same place they were with the 100-year-old building again in 100 years.
Ward: Yes and you are right we are at that stage that we've been doing this downtown renovations that they are back to again for especially for the masonry keeping it fresh because water is our largest damaged item that we have so we are getting in the process of repainting the buildings and stuff bringing them and then or water tightening them with seal and things like that yes.
Juravich: Tell me about the economic impact of restoring a new building. I mean, obviously it's creating jobs. People have work, there's a lot of work being done. Just tell me about the economic impacts that restoring an old building has on a community.
Ward: Oh, it's been huge, especially for downtown Bell Fountain. We started out with the current CEO and owner of our company, Small Nation, Jason Duff. Now we're up to, we have two or three other developers that have moved in or have decided to help in that cause as well and bring back downtown. But it's bringing people back to downtown, which back in 2007 and 2008, a lot of the storefronts and places were boarded up with plywood and things like that. We've kind of helped bring that viability, and like I said, we have seven restaurants now. We just put in like a Penn's Mechanical, it's called Ax Quacks downtown. So we've got four lanes of bowling and stuff. We have ax throwing. And then we also have some great cookie and snacks and ice cream places. So it's all, we try to work together to bring back that viability back into the town town.
Juravich: And just to end on, you know, it's been said that the greenest building is the one that's already built rather than building new. Would you agree with that? Do you know fixing up a building that has stood for a century is that greener than building a brand new building?
Ward: That's true a lot of the lumber and stuff that you get today really hasn't really cured out stuff And when you work with the historical buildings, which we're actually putting in and an elevator right now in three floors So the structure itself is in the old, you know, what they call a two by twelve Board as far as it is actually with this 11 and a quarter inches today's standards But back then it was truly 12 inches So the and they're actually being two and two inches thick and stuff So. It's solid. You just don't find it and then you go through your tools and stuff when you try to renovate things as well.
Juravich: All right, so so so you would agree is the green the greenest buildings the ones that's already built Have you done any brand new construction or you you you mainly focus on the renovation of the old?
Ward: Yes, we have done some new stuff as well. We also do storage facilities as well and stuff. Most of those are steel structure as well, but then we do have some that we have built for stick build as well
Juravich: We have been speaking with Dale Ward, construction manager for Small Nation, a real estate development company located in Belle Fountain. Thank you so much for your time today, Dale.
Ward: Thanks for having me.
Juravich: Thank you for telling us about your redevelopment.
You're listening to All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. I wanna say thanks to the All Side staff, producers, Marcus Charleston and Erin Esmont Rabinowitz. Our student producers is Ahuk, Colin Simpson and Brianna Fortunate. Our student producer from Denison University is Ellen Hansen. Video production by the Ohio Channel, board operation by Chris Johnston. Thank you so much for listening to All Sides on 89.7 NPR News.
