Are data centers good for Ohio?

This episode originally aired on April 29, 2026.

More than 200 data centers are located across Ohio.

The rapid rate of data center expansion brings to the forefront a host of issues, from land use to power and water consumption to economic benefits.

Today, we’re talking about the pros and cons and how Ohio is addressing them, as rural residents and others mobilize in hopes of bringing the issue to voters.

Guests:

• Austin Baurichter, Brown County attorney leading anti-data center amendment effort
• Jeffrey Bielicki, associate professor/research lead on sustainable energy, Ohio State Sustainability Institute
• Dan Diorio, vice president of state policy, Data Center Coalition

Transcript

This transcript is generated with AI. To ensure its accuracy, review the audio file.

Amy Juravich: Welcome to All Sides with Amy Juravich. Ohio ranks fifth in the country for the number of data centers. 202 was the total count as of last week, and growing. The acceleration has caused concern among residents, local leaders, and lawmakers. But it's not just an Ohio worry. Lawmakers in Maine recently passed a moratorium on large data centers, but then the governor later vetoed it. At least 11 states, from Vermont to Georgia to South Dakota, have introduced legislation that would temporarily prohibit them.

Here in Ohio, the House unanimously passed a bill that would create a data center study commission, and a grassroots organization made up mostly of Ohio's rural communities is working to get the issue before voters. Joining us now is attorney Austin Baurichter, co-drafter of the petition for the statewide data center petition and a petition committee member. Welcome to All Sides, Austin.

Austin Baurichter: Appreciate it Amy. Good morning. Thanks for having me on.

Juravich: Yeah, so your group is looking to ban large data centers and those are considered ones that are larger than 25 megawatts. So give us a sense of how large that is. Like what exactly would be banned?

Baurichter: Right. So that was the number that we decided on when we were putting the petition together. And in my mind, as it was today and as it was when we are putting it together, that would be like, and this is a rough, you know, sort of sense, but it would be the medium, large and greater, right? All right.

Juravich: Okay.

Baurichter: People talk about hyperscale and large scale and small and this and that, based on the studies and based on information that we looked at, they said, you know, I think it was anywhere from 10 is considered a large. And this was based on. Among other resources, a Berkeley study that we looked at that was conducted in 2024 and published in 2025. Ten and over was like, quote unquote, the large ones.

And so we, you know, when we were putting this together, we looked, we look at these types of studies, primary and secondary resources on energy consumption, you from sort of the scientific lens. And we also looked at what, at the time, what other states had been doing. Or at least I've been working on and sort of the numbers that they were talking about and landing on other states had 30 A little bit higher. I think I think one state had 20 Megawatts if I'm remembering correctly.

Juravich: So if this ban would go into effect right now, how many of the 200 we have right now in the state would no longer be allowed? Like, are most of the ones we have larger than the 25 megawatts?

Baurichter: Yeah, that's a great question. So, as the amendment reads, it, and I've got it right here, but as the amendment reads it prohibits the construction of a data center. And so there are a number of, you know, questions about that. But to my mind, and personally, you know I say this personally, sadly, I would think the ones that are there under the terms of the amendment would not, you know, they've been constructed.

Juravich: Right, yeah, no, I understand that, that it's for ones that haven't been built yet. So going forward, anyone that's bigger than 25 megawatts would be banned if this passes. But I was just asking, of the 200 we already have built around the state, there's 100 in central Ohio, are most of them bigger than 25 watts? Like with this, like, or are they smaller?

Baurichter: To be honest, I do not know the answer to that question.

Juravich: We'll have to do a survey, yeah.

Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.

Juravich: So this movement is largely driven by rural areas. You live in Higginsport, Ohio, which is in Brown County. Can you tell us about what's happening in your area? What specific concerns do you have? Do you drive around Brown County and see data centers?

Baurichter: I don't drive around Brown County and see data centers, luckily, so far. But one of the things that I initially got when I started getting involved in this stuff was up in Mount Orab, which is... North, I guess, from where I am. And they are in a similar situation to what a lot of communities in Ohio are facing. They had their village council, you know, a developer came in and got their village counsel under an NDA, advanced a purchase agreement, this and that, right?

And so it was, people began to understand what was happening, that there was a data center in the works. And so, which again, I would say in many important ways, I consider the state to be kind of in the 11th hour with regard to these data centers and the advancement of their developments. And so in a lot of this was done, without the knowledge or around the knowledge of the communities that are affected.

And so but once people got started understanding and knowing what was going on, You know, they started going to these meetings and everything and partially. That's how I found out. So there's one in there's. One that's in the works in Manor, but however, you know, with with people attending the meetings and talking with village council, the mountain or village council is one of the areas that has put on a moratorium.

I believe it's considering undoing certain emergency zoning that was put in place a while back to sort of pave the way for the data center. So, but it's definitely not, you. Going away yet. Another area right down the road for me is Ripley, and that is Riply, Ohio, and that is ostensibly the site of one of these SMRs, small modular reactors, that are supposedly to use nuclear power to be kind of backend energy on this.

So it's certainly around my area, but thankfully right now I don't necessarily drive around and see data centers, and I hope it That way.

You're listening to All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about data centers with attorney Austin Ball-Richter from Brown County. He's leading an effort to get a constitutional amendment banning large data centers on the November ballot. So let's talk about that, trying to get an amendment on the ballot. It's not easy to do. You cleared the first step, the Ohio ballot board okayed your language so that you can gather signatures. And you have until July to gather 413,000 valid signatures. Which is a lot. How are you doing? How are doing in your signature gathering?

Baurichter: Uh, well, what we intentionally chose to do with this, uh, this petition, the way we decided to sort of roll it out was based on, um, I would say the infrastructure that kind of already existed throughout the state. Once, once we got, once I got involved in like, you know, people started talking, I started getting phone calls and messages from people all around the entire state. That's like, Hey, you know, we're up here in us. We're over in Coyote County. We're up in Northwest Ohio. We're here in Allen County.

So. There is such a sweeping development across this entire state that's happening that all of these local communities who are worried sick about it literally, including myself and wondering what to do have kind of coalesce together. So we have this existing base across Ohio. We have over of the 88 Ohio counties. We had seventy five county leads that we've got that we do like weekly county lead meetings.

And so, and to your question, how are we doing? Um, so we have, uh, so, we decided because there's such a broad, like, amount of people across the state, truly bipartisan doesn't, you know, doesn't even matter what politics or everybody is so concerned about this. We decided that given the time constraints and obviously the, the tremendous signature constraints, the signature requirements, we kind of made this, uh what you might call like more open source.

And so we kind have spread it out to like, Hey, look, everybody's involved in this. Everybody's fighting this. Here's the petition. You know, like, go get signatures, you know volunteer time and effort. So in because that was the intentional decision that was made on the front end, the difficulty now as we get into May and into June and stuff is on the back end. So we don't have like a number update at the moment, but just on but and that's because of the intentional choice we made to make it like relatively open access for people throughout the state.

But this past Sunday, and then going forward, we're sort of turning the corner, if you will, and getting these things submitted so that we can get a sense of where we are. But in terms of, I think of this as the petition itself, which I feel is well underway. I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't think it was a doable task. Obviously, as we get the numbers, we'll see. And I assume we'll share those as we them.

Juravich: I do. Yeah, I feel that, you know, getting a constitutional amendment on the ballot is very difficult. You have to have signatures from more from half the counties. They have to be valid for I mentioned the number four hundred thirteen thousand. That is a lot. And so normally they try signature gatherers. They hire. They don't use volunteers. They hire signature gatherer's and then they try to get double the number of signatures. That way they have enough.

So I would just think that an effort like this of trying to stop larger data centers. Might be easier to go through lawmakers rather than doing an amendment on the ballot. Have you tried talking with lawmakers about this?

Baurichter: Um, frankly, I don't, you know, I think the lawmakers lawmakers have talked a lot about it. They haven't really done a lot. That was the whole point is from from the local level all the way on up. You know, I've been to these starting at the smallest local level village council meetings township trustees. I've Been to these meetings and sadly and disappointingly and frighteningly it is a hostile environment between a lot of times between the constituents and these I don't understand why, you know?

I can take guesses as to why, but constituents throughout the state have been extraordinarily vocal about this on the localist level all the way on up for months. We are now in the 11th hour. And nothing has happened from the lawmaker's side. We have been asking repeatedly for a statewide moratorium similar to the one that, like you said, failed in May. And all the while, these data center advancements continue to creep closer and closer to you know, irreversible or generation.

These will be here for generations. So this constitutional amendment was an 11th hour remedy and 11th hour an attempt for people to have their voice heard. And if you want the data centers, you ought to be able to say that if you don't want the data centers. You ought to able to say that in this petition is for the people of Ohio to say whether they want it or not rather than developers corporations. You know, governments that decide that they want it.

Juravich: I want to play some audio from an event that a candidate for governor Vivek Ramaswamy recently attended. It was a Turning Point USA gathering at Ohio State. You're going to first hear from a young woman who identified herself as Diana, and then you'll hear part of Ramasawami's response to her.

Speaker 5: What is actually more important to you, preserving Ohio's irreplaceable farmland and the working class farmers who sustain it or paving over our soil for tech conglomerates that drive up our utility bills and pollute our water?

Speaker 6: Thank you. Appreciate the question. It's a good question. It's great question. And it's one that frankly I've encountered traveling the state and I'm not saying this to say that this is not the first time I've had this conversation. The reason that I'm the only candidate in this race endorsed by multiple agricultural groups from our dairy farmers to you think about our corn and soybean farmers is because my view is that we have to conduct economic development in a way that protects Ohio's most important and oldest industry, that is agriculture, but in a way that does not treat it as an either or.

Juravich: So basically, Ramaswamy's point is, can it be an either-or proposition? Is there room for compromise here? What would your group look to for a candidate, for governor, to say, we can have some data centers and we can hear out people in townships and what they have to say?

Baurichter: I mean, I would say exactly what you said I would we would look for anybody who would literally sit down not with any focus groups or anything else with these human beings that live in these communities that you know, I've talked to and I'm I feel proud. I feel Proud to be speaking here to you, you know if I may echo their opinions as well. It's a privilege to be the one talking to you because it's not only me. It's everybody in these Communities and I would I would any person that listens to us, like the people of Ohio, that would be the bare minimum starting point.

If somebody literally said, I will just sit down in a room with people and truly listen, you know, because a lot of, like you said, to that gentleman's point, like, you know I have my personal preference and well, can I say one thing about what you said earlier about the period circulators and stuff? Because as we've been doing this... It definitely, I have made some very interesting observations. This is the first time I've been involved in anything like this at all. Like, you know, I had no background in this.

I quit my job over this at a corporate law firm to do this because I believe it's a moral, this is a moral compulsion for me. And so this has been all new. One of the interesting observations with this has be. People do not think that we've like have gone strong enough with the amendment which is funny because that's one of our most I would say one of the most vociferous like concerns that have been raised with it people say well you know you're just getting rid of the big ones like we need to go harder on this and that's you know to me like we did this because like to your point we need a ton of signatures we need broad support across the state and so me and the other gentleman that did this was another attorney who we have a lot of personal differences, but we put politically, but we put those aside and said, what is the, what is the most reasonable thing that we can get on board? Right.

Um, you know, cause we can't like, like you said, this requires a lot of the state. And so we did, we thought, okay, if we say just the big ones, then people can get on board with that. And obviously, you know, I'm personally have been supplementing this petition effort with Efforts that I that I'm involved with as an attorney, you know, on the on the really local level. So it's interesting that people have been saying, you know, why didn't you do go harder on the petition?

And to that I would say, you know, we need we can always be involved on the local level this petition doesn't mean that you can't in your in your communities, you know, push back on that. And the other thing to what you were saying about the the paid circulators, like, you video. We have yet to have a group come and ask, you, and say, can we help, can we help with this? And I, and I've heard rumblings or, you know, whatever you want to say that, that people do want to help groups that have resources to help, but they are literally reticent because they don't want to put their name out there as going against quote unquote big tech.

And so that's what, that's literally what I've heard. Like, Hey, they want to help and they're thinking about helping, but they don't wanna put a name, their name on a check. To go against Facebook Google Amazon, you know, whatever and so thought fine will go against it. You know, like we're going to do this petition as much as we're gonna keep rolling with it. But to the to this that clip you played I think it has to start with listening to the communities the people that I talked to are literally frightened worried sick not sleeping.

I myself and worried sick frightened not sleeping, you know we understand the people Thank you for that. Live in these communities and have been through this before where corporate interests come in and say let us do what we want with your resources and we'll make it we'll Make it good for you. That has not happened in the past and they people do not believe that will happen again. So it has to start with actually talking to people and that is not happening at these government meetings and now one more thing and I know you're about to say something No one now So a couple months ago or a month back, these governments were asking, Hey, we need more information, right?

We need, we didn't understand more people now are figuring out this information and bringing it to these meetings. And now they're saying, now they are saying you cannot speak. They are now eliminating the ability of constituents to comment at these. So it's, it's very distressing.

Juravich: Well, we have been talking about data centers with attorney Austin Baurichter from Brown County. He's leading an effort to get a constitutional amendment banning large data centers on the November ballot, and he'll keep us updated on his signature gathering. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Baurichter: Yep, I appreciate it.

Juravich: Coming up, we're going to hear from an Ohio State professor about his research into data centers. That's when All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.

You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. Are data centers good for Ohio? That's the question we are pondering today. The number of data centers in Ohio has surpassed 200. A majority of them are in central Ohio and growing. We're talking about the pros and cons about land use concerns, power and water consumption, economic incentives, and more. Joining us now is Ohio State Professor Jeffrey Bielicki, Associate Faculty Director of Research at the Sustainability Institute. Welcome to the show, Professor.

Jeffrey Bielicki: Great to be here again.

Juravich: So let's start with some basics. Help us to understand what exactly data centers do. Like why are they so important to the tech sector and why do we need so many of them?

Bielicki: Yeah. So data centers are important components of our modern economy. They basically are able to process data, much of which has been out there for a long time, and is being collected very quickly. They're actually able to process it very efficiently and integrate it very well, So that it in essence with the algorithms that are applied and the learning that comes from that, they're basically able to provide us with very good, thorough resources when we're looking for information. Now, sometimes the AI that's empowered by the data centers gets it wrong. Sometimes they hallucinate, so on. But basically, they are really important for being able to process a lot of information very quickly and synthesize it and make it digestible.

Juravich: So what your role with the Sustainability Institute at Ohio State, when it comes to data centers, are you basically researching them? You're trying to learn more? What's your role?

Bielicki: Sure, yeah. So I serve as the associate faculty director of research at the Sustainable Institute. My particular area, in addition to that role, is to organize and leverage teams to address a lot of issues around energy and environmental concerns. And data centers have emerged as a really important concern, in part because of the amount of electricity and energy they require, and in part, because of other environmental and human health impacts.

Juravich: So to the central question I'm asking this hour, are they good for Ohio? Our previous guest would say no. Coming up, we have the data center coalition. They would say yes, economically at least. So what would your answer be? Are they good Ohio?

Bielicki: I have a weighted average of yes and no. So yeah, I think in general the benefits are mixed and the costs are mixed. They are good for helping to empower our economy. The data centers do pay a substantial amount of taxes now. What the net is with the tax incentives that have been granted to locate them in I don't know what that net is They do have some employment, positive employment. It's not that much. A recent review of around 1,200 data centers found that they averaged about 120 full-time employees after construction, sometimes as few as 25.

They help us power our economy much more efficiently, as I referred to before. But there's downsides. They require a heck of a lot of electricity that's having... Important ramifications in our electricity grid and how the data centers are responding by increasingly installing their own generation behind the meter. The utility electricity rates have been increasing. We're paying about 10% more on average in 2025 for electricity throughout the country than we did in 2024. About $60 billion in rate increases occurred between 2024 and 2025.

The electricity, how that's generated to power the data center matters. If it's coming from here in Ohio, predominantly we have fossil fuel infrastructure. About 80% of our infrastructure is from fossil fuels, which emit carbon dioxide. Depending on the technology, nitrogen dioxide, which is implicated in cardiovascular disease, respiratory disease, higher rates of asthma, and so on. There's particulates, there's sulfur dioxide that can be created from a coal fire to power plant.

There's also, when we care about the other aspects of the environment, what I just mentioned was sort of human health impacts of some of these emissions. The data centers themselves use some water for cooling. And a recent estimate is that mid-size facilities can use up to 300,000 gallons per day. A large facility is about five million gallons per day. Now, if you compare that with the average U.S. Household, an average household uses about 100,000 to 120,000 gallons per year.

Substantial water usage at the facility, but if we also care about water, we really care about how that electricity is generated because the electricity from a thermal... Electric power plant, natural gas, coal, nuclear, needs to be cooled. And the majority of the water requirements that are related to data centers come through the cooling of the power plants that are then providing electricity for the data center.

Juravich: We've all heard the conversations about how much utility is needed, how much electricity is needed to run these, how water is used. You mentioned all those health concerns as well. But when you look around the U.S. In efforts to stop or press pause on these data centers, do you think that there is a reasonable plan of action? Because if we want to keep scrolling and we want keep using AI, we need them. I understand that, so. What what do you think? Are there any states out there that Ohio should look to? Has anyone figured out the right balance here?

Bielicki: I think that everyone is basically trying to play catch up. The states are trying to catch up, in part, because of the rapid expansion of the data centers, and both in terms of their individual size, but also the number of them, and how they're encroaching more and more on where people live, and how a data center requires a lot of cooling. Because there's a whole bunch of servers and racks and computers running and you know My cat at home likes to sit on my laptop because it's warm, right?

You multiply that by a gajillion and then that's how much heat you have to dissipate and so So they require a lot of cooling, but those cooling systems are noisy and as are the the backup generators and and increasingly Data centers are locating electricity generation onsite. It's called behind the meter. They're not drawing the electricity from the grid. They are generating it themselves and there's important ramifications for that. But that's noisy, right? And some estimates are that it's up to roughly the sound that sounds like a motorcycle driving by or a jackhammer.

There's also Um, the concerns about, you know, the previous interview mentioned concern about our land and that quote from the young lady who asked Vivek Ramaswamy about-

Juravich: She's worried about the loss of farmland. She is.

Bielicki: Yeah, yeah, she is worried about

Juravich: Because you can't get it back once you build a data center on it.

Bielicki: Yeah, I mean we don't understand how to decommission these right and and I think there are Approaches that it don't make it an either-or that can make it and But we really need to we really needed to catch up the the average timeline for a data center is about 18 months to 24 years to get Connected to the grid it can take several years for that request to go through

Juravich: Did you say 18 months to 24 years?

Bielicki: I did, I'm at 24 months, sorry about that.

Juravich: Okay, so between 18 and 24 months to get going.

Bielicki: Yeah, upwards of two years for a data center. But it takes seven to 10 years typically to get transmission installed. Takes four to six years to get new electricity generation online. And so the timelines are that this expansion is occurring much faster than our electricity system can accommodate it. And what's happening is as demand increases and our electricity system is sized basically for peak summer loads when. Where there's extra capacity out there, but the extra reserve capacity that we have is dwindling rapidly and that's causing some concerns.

You're listening to All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about data centers with Ohio State Professor Jeffrey Balicki, Associate Faculty Director of Research of the Sustainability Institute. I wanted to talk about, you know, cause this is being framed as a worldwide competition that China is leading. And so what does that tell us about what China is doing differently? How they approach the energy sources? Are they doing data centers the same way we are?

Bielicki: Yeah, so China, I'll start with the electricity because it's an important component of the data centers. China has taken an approach that is basically an industrial policy approach where they view the electricity generating capacity within the country as a national strategic asset. And whereas here in the United States, we tend to have incremental investment through markets and mechanisms and demand and so on, they have overbuilt their electricity generating capacity.

For example, solar and wind capacity in China is on track for 1,400 gigawatts, while the US is only about going to reach about 350 gigawattes. They. Plan to add 212 gigawatts of solar and 51 gigawattes of wind, which is in the US, comparatively we have less than 100 gigawatths. So they have invested a lot in their electricity generating infrastructure, which then allows them to not have as many complications when they're adding data centers as we do here in the United States. So, it's much, from that perspective, it is much easier to get data centers up and running and going because they have the electricity available.

Juravich: But in the just in the two minutes we have left, you could see the the counter argument though, where lawmakers say that this is this is creating jobs, they might be construction jobs, but all those people are working for two years, they're building this thing. And then there are jobs in the data center taking care of it afterward. Does the economic impact and the the ability to say that Ohio is leading the way in the future of technology? Does that outweigh some of this?

Bielicki: I don't know if it outweighs it. I think that we're not sure what leading the way means, right? So on one hand, there is a lot of pushback. And that pushback is there. And by virtue of people having concerns, it should be valid and treated seriously. The environmental implications are pretty substantial. The economic benefits can also be pretty substantial. And it depends on how we value environment versus economy. And in my world, we don't think of that as a necessary trade off. We can do them together. We can prioritize economy and we can prioritize environment.

Juravich: How we prioritize environment versus economy. Isn't that the biggest question of our time?

Bielicki: I think there's co-benefits and we can prioritize both.

Juravich: We've been talking about the pros and cons of data centers with Ohio State Professor Jeffrey Balicki, Associate Faculty Director of Research at the Sustainability Institute. Thank you for your time. And coming up, we're going to talk with the Data Center Coalition, a group that advocates for data centers around the country. That's when All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.

You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. Are data centers good for Ohio? That's the question we're seeking to answer today. The number of data centers in Ohio now surpasses 200, with more than 100 in central Ohio alone, and growing. Also growing is the opposition. Rural counties are leading an effort to get a constitutional amendment before voters in November, but it has a long way to go to make the ballot.

Others say the criticism leveled at data centers is overblown, unfairly making it a scapegoat for high electricity bills and overlooking the very real economic benefits the industry generates. Joining us now is Dan Diorio, Vice President of State Policy for the Data Center Coalition. Welcome to All Sides, Dan.

Dan Diorio: Thank you for having me.

Juravich: First of all, I want you to tell us what your organization does. Which data centers you represent, who belongs, what's your mission?

Diorio: Well, the Data Center Coalition is the National Membership Association for the data center industry. We represent over 40 leading data center owners and operators, including many of the household names that most folks have heard of, including the large cloud providers, Amazon Web Services, Google, Microsoft, and Meta. But we also represent leading multi-tenant data center companies. So these are companies that will build a data center and they will lease out space inside to whomever needs it.

It could be cloud providers that need additional capacity in a region. It could be local financial institutions, healthcare providers, technology companies, you name it, basically anyone and everyone that needs access to digital infrastructure. Those are companies like Stack and Switch and QTS and Vantage data centers. We also have large end users of data capacity, companies like Oracle, CoreWeave, Anthropic, and OpenAI.

Juravich: Okay, so you're not just working in Ohio. I mean, your coalition is working with data centers all around the country.

Diorio: That's right, that's right. We are, you know, again, I think we want to be not just an advocacy organization, but an information resource for businesses and stakeholders and communities throughout the country on why data centers? Why now? What are we seeing? What had been the growth drivers and the growth factors? And ultimately, what are the trends throughout the county?

Juravich: And your website lists some of the economic ways the industry supports communities. Can you talk about the billions in total tax contributions? Do you see this economic investment making up for offsetting some of the energy and water resource concerns that residents are always talking about?

Diorio: Well, it's important to remember that data centers are everything that we do every day. It's how we work, it how we learn, it's how communicate. And when you look at our daily lives, the 21 connected devices on average that we all have in our homes and the services that we rely on every day, it becomes clear that data center are the backbone of the 21st century economy.

And with that comes significant economic benefits to the regions where data centers locate. You know, these are billions of dollars in capital investment that comes with significant amounts of jobs, not just in the construction phase, but also in the operational phase. Data centers rely on electricians and plumbers, pipe fitters, HVAC technicians to build their facilities, but also to maintain them when they're up and operational.

And when we look at a state like Ohio, we see a total employment contribution of 84,490 in 2023. That's according to PWC and a report done using publicly available government data. These are good paying jobs. Those nearly 85,000 jobs came with $6.04 billion in labor income in 2023. The industry contributed $10.6 billion to Ohio GDP in 2023, and it also contributed almost $931 million to state and local governments. Data centers, the developments, they generate significant amounts of state and global tax revenue. And especially at the local level, this is revenue that's reinvested into schools and infrastructure and services. So data centers bring significant economic benefits to the communities throughout Ohio.

Juravich: Now, granted, numbers are hard on the radio, but the numbers that you just listed, I mean, the money, the tax benefits, the jobs, the 84,000 jobs. What we hear about more in Ohio though are the tax breaks given to the companies coming to Ohio. Build a data center and you don't have to pay taxes for 15 or 20 years. So how does the tax contributions that you've just mentioned compare to the tax breaks received.

Diorio: Well, they far outweigh the tax exemptions that data centers receive. Data centers are eligible for a sales tax exemption on the server equipment. And the server equipment changes over about every three to five years. So you're constantly replacing the equipment to ensure that you have the most up to date equipment in the facility. And that includes the most energy efficient equipment in the facility as well. What's important, too, is that Ohio has a discretionary program.

The Department of Development is not giving out a hundred percent exemption automatically. They can evaluate projects and make determinations as necessary for what level of exemption is given out. So the exemption allows continuous reinvestment in Ohio, reinvestments in Ohio communities and reinvestment into Ohio wins. That work in the skilled trades and others that work with the data center industry.

But it also allows for that broader business ecosystem impact. We see companies like Vertiv in Ohio that are building equipment systems going into data centers just announced an additional expansion in the state. That's a homegrown company working with data centers that continues to expand. So it's an important part of Ohio's competitiveness for data center development, as well as the other industries that the data industry works with closely.

Juravich: There's no doubt you've heard the criticism leveled against data centers. It's ricocheting around the country, right? So and Ohio's not alone. But here in Ohio, there's this effort to get a constitutional amendment on the ballot that would ban future large data centers and the movements being led by rural communities, they feel like their areas, their farmlands being taken over, there are too many data centers being allowed in rural areas. Your coalition is on the record as being opposed to that amendment, correct?

Diorio: Yes, yes, I think that amendment would send an extraordinarily bad signal to not just the data center industry, but also to broader economic development opportunities in the state of Ohio. I think industries would look at that and say, this makes Ohio a risky market for development and it could have significant ripple effects, but I want to point out as well that the data centers, they follow all. Local rules they don't get a break on the rules. They can't just develop anywhere that they want to They have to follow all the rules they have to work with local officials They have through public permitting processes They have work with infrastructure providers to ensure that you know They can they can have the resources that they need for that facility So data centers don't a free pass they have follow the all the development laws and rules that are in place in any given community throughout the state.

Juravich: Well, some of the ways that people feel like they may be bending the rules a little bit is that the amount of power and water that they take up and some of the areas that they move into don't have the infrastructure for that additional power and so then it needs to be built. What do you say to those people who they may not be breaking the rules and they may working to get better power and water to those areas. But at right now, they're kind of like an energy suck.

Diorio: Well, it's important to remember, we are all driving the demand for digital infrastructure. It's consumers and businesses and all the services that we rely on. As a society will create, consumers and business will generate twice as much data in the next five years as we did in the previous 10. And again, I mentioned there's 21 connected devices in a household. All of us rely on digital infrastructure every day. We are driving the demand.

You know, for our part, the data center industry, we're fully committed to paying our full cost of service for electricity. And we expect utilities and regulators to help us do that. When we get a bill, we expect it to be our bill in full and that consumers are not bearing any undue costs. And I think. What we see broadly is that data centers, because they are large loads that come on and because they bear a proportional share of the infrastructure costs and the infrastructure upgrades that are needed to service their facilities, that they can actually put downward pressure on rates.

We see that just to the west in Indiana, where Indiana-Michigan Power announced that are lowering rates because of data center revenue coming in. The same thing happened in Detroit Energy, I believe it's DE Energy up in Michigan, just to the north as well. We see it in Atlanta and Georgia Power. We see in California, of all places, where PG&E has announced that they've kept rates 11% lower because of data center revenue. So there's a tremendous opportunity here for significant investment in the grid, for data centers to bear those costs, and for other rate payers to see reductions it's because of data centers coming online.

You're listening to All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about the pros and cons of data centers with Dan Diorio, Vice President of State Policy for the Data Center Coalition. There's also been concerns, environmental concerns, pollutants in the air. In March, residents of Hilliard raised an alarm at an Ohio EPA public hearing over the admissions permit that would allow for 158 diesel backup generators at an Amazon data center. Here's one parent, Trevor Anderson of Hilliard, expressing the concern.

Speaker 10: This impacts our health and the health of my children. We want to make sure that they're held to account, that what they're saying that they expect these generators to emit is what we actually have floating around in the air that we're breathing in.

Juravich: So what about, I mean, 158 backup diesel generators, that does sound like a health concern. What do you have to say to a parent like Trevor Anderson who's worried about that?

Diorio: There are already significant regulations in place. The diesel backup generators are heavily regulated by the EPA down through the state and even in some localities. These generators are for backup only. They can only be used for required testing and maintenance or for when power from the grid is interrupted. Data centers provide essential services.

Data centers provide healthcare data, electronic healthcare records, telehealth appointments, online classrooms, banking, and financial transactions. All those essential services that we rely on every day that are important for our health and safety, our wellness, and our financial well-being. So data centers have backup generators to maintain continuity of service in the event power from the grid is interrupted. They can only run in these circumstances. And just like any other essential infrastructure facility like a hospital, data centers need to make sure that their services are available because we rely on them.

So what I would say to that parent is data centers are following the laws. They have an air permit. They could only run within the limits of that air permit. That air permit is heavily regulated already, you know, by the federal and state governments. And we follow those laws and we work to ensure that those generators only run in a state of emergency so that we can provide those essential services.

Juravich: There was a forum, a community forum, and the president of the Ohio Manufacturers Association said that the real culprit for high energy costs, we're backing up to energy costs for a second, is the utility companies. The data centers are a convenient scapegoat right now. So you mentioned what's being done in Indiana. You mentioned Michigan. You said California is doing things. So is Ohio behind the times here with the idea that the high costs of the electric bills are being passed on to consumers, you're saying that it's not the data center's fault.

Diorio: Well, yes, and I certainly think it is far more complex than that. We've just come out of about 20 years of relatively flat load growth, and now we have a lot of electricity load growth being driven by economic development factors. Data centers are one, but we have increased manufacturing, we have electrification, and we have hydrogen production. All of these are coming together now for a grid that has really not been expanded, developed, or upgraded in about 20-years.

And so what we see is both a supply and demand problem, but also just an infrastructure problem. We know the leading causes right now of price increases really are just basic infrastructure, things like poles and wires, transformers, components, supply chains, inflation, and labor costs. All of those are bigger contributors now to higher prices than data centers. But it is important, of course, in Ohio, as in the PJM region. To react to both supply and demand challenges and ensure that we have both enough generation and transmission from all sources to be able to serve a growing economy.

And so data centers will continue being an engaged stakeholder in that and ensure we are paying our full cost of service and that rate payers are protected and are not bearing any burden from the build out of the grid.

Juravich: So is it up to the individual community where you're trying to build the data center to say, when they're negotiating the whole thing, to say all right, you can come here, but you have to pay for all these polls and a new substation and all of that. Has that worked into the deal?

Diorio: I don't know if that's at the community level, but it certainly would be with the utility level. You know, that's routine. Utilities and transmission companies will tell a data center exactly what the upgrades are needed to service those facilities. And data centers pay those costs and should be expected to pay those cost in full. And that's what we are committed to as an industry is ensuring that all the infrastructure upgrades that are needed to service the data center are being paid for by the data Center and not by rate payers.

Juravich: Earlier, you mentioned the number of jobs. You said 84,000 jobs. And then you were sure to clarify that saying like, it's not all construction jobs, but that's what we hear. We hear the number jobs is there's a lot of people it takes to build them, build the thing. And then once it's up and running, it's just maybe like a dozen or so people to keep it going and do maintenance. Is that true? And is that worth it big picture? If it's, all the construction jobs are great for a couple of years, but then what about the longterm?

Diorio: Well, I would encourage someone to tell any member of the building trades that their job is temporary and see what kind of reaction you may get there. I mean, there are folks who make careers off a temporary job, but what we see is those crews are retained by companies for the long term and they move from site to site or building to building on a campus. And we see construction opportunities turn from two to three years into six, seven, eight, nine, 10 year job opportunities.

What I would also say is that it's not true that you only need a dozen or so people to run a data center. We see data centers and hyperscale data data centers run by cloud providers having upwards of about 200 plus in the facilities facilities are larger and built out. We also see the multi tenants you know they have their employees but their tenants have employees. If you go to any data center parking lot you'll find it full, and I think what most importantly you'll of are those local electricians, those local plumbers, those local HVAC technicians who are contracted.

Those are small business folks who operate, who live and work in those communities. Who maintain that facility day in, day out. They're always going in, they're swapping components out, they're upgrading components, they're doing necessary maintenance. Data centers create significant business ecosystems around them. For every one job in a data center, six jobs are supported elsewhere in the economy. It's in the manufacturing industry, it's in steel fabrication, it's another service industries.

Data centers are catalysts for broader business ecosystem developments wherever they locate. So I would say that assertion about jobs is is not correct because it doesn't take into account all the other industries and professions that data centers rely on to service their facilities and how they rely on local communities for that.

Juravich: What about the future? Is there going to be a time when these data centers can get smaller, take up less space, less resources? Because technology is bound to get more sophisticated. We have to be able to figure out a way to do the same thing with a smaller footprint, maybe in 20, 30 years. I have no idea. What is the industry forecasting in that regard? Will we need these giant data centers forever?

Diorio: Well, we're on a very steep demand curve right now for digital infrastructure and it's no signs of slowing and we have not caught up to that demand just yet. We are still behind meeting it. I think what's key is remembering data centers are far more efficient way actually of doing all the computing, processing and storage that we need. By aggregating all those needs together and utilizing economies of scale, we actually can do this in a far more efficient way.

As we saw the advent of data centers through the 2010s, from 2010 to 2018, computing output rose 550%, while energy consumption only rose 6%. And while we're in a certainly a higher era of demand and growth right now, the principle still holds true. This is a far more efficient way of doing everything that we need in the economy in our everyday lives. So I certainly think demand will continue to rise as we all need connected devices and we all rely on increased digital services and data centers will continue to calibrate to that demand, ensure that they build out facilities properly.

But also just remember, this is an industry that thrives on innovation, that thrived on technological advancement. It will continue do that to ensure that it uses resources wisely and is a good partner in communities where they locate.

Juravich: Just to end on, you know, Columbus is kind of becoming an epicenter of data centers. New Albany, just down the road from Columbus, has, there are more than 40 data centers in that community. What would you say to people here in central Ohio that, you know, driving around, seeing more of them, what do you want them to know about the data center, rather than just thinking, oh no, a data center?

Diorio: Well, I think there's probably a few things I'd say. First and foremost is that this is not just for AI. This is everything that we do every day. AI is an important growth driver, but it is not the be all end all of data centers. It is all the essential services that we rely on in our every day, I'd also say that these data centers provide tremendous job opportunities, not just for the workforce now, but for the work force in the future.

Investing in workforce development programs where you don't need a traditional pathway to get a really good paying job in the data center industry or in the skilled trades. I'd let them know that data centers are generating significant revenue for the community that's being invested in schools and infrastructure and services. And I would just stress to you that data centers are committed to being a responsible partner in the communities where they locate, but also a responsive partner, ask questions, you know, and have an insist on robust stakeholder engagement because the industry is investing in that. And I think the industry's committed to be that responsive partner and helping communities understand their projects and how they fit in with the fabric of their communities.

Juravich: We've been talking about data centers and the future of them in Ohio with Dan Diorio, Vice President of State Policy for the Data Center Coalition. Thank you for your time today, Dan.

Diorio: Thank you for having me.

Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. I'm Amy Juravich.