This episode originally aired on May 13, 2026.
As the Midwest's fastest growing city, Columbus is undergoing many changes.
There is a constant need for more housing.
COTA has a new 5-year plan for expansion.
And the skyline is changing. From downtown high-rises to bike lanes to new businesses, we’re talking about the transit and development changes happening in and around Columbus on this hour of All Sides.
Guests:
- Walker Evans, co-founder, Columbus Underground
- Brent Warren, reporter, Columbus Underground
Transcript
This transcript is generated with AI. To ensure its accuracy, review the audio file.
Amy Juravich: Welcome to All Sides with Amy Juravich. The merchant building towering over the North Market is expected to be completed later this year. The 32-story mixed-use project, along with a proposed COTA expansion, are just some of the development and transit changes coming to Columbus, to the skyline, and to the ground level.
This hour, we're gonna talk about the above-ground changes happening in development and transit with Columbus Underground. Joining us is Walker Evans. Co-founder of Columbus Underground. Welcome back to All Sides Walker. Thanks for having me. And Brent Warren, reporter for Columbus Underground, welcome back to All Sides Brent.
Brent Warren: Great to be here.
Juravich: So I wanted to begin with the North Market. It's one of the city's biggest tourist attractions. It's strategically located near the short north and the arena district both. What impact is this merchant building going to have to the surrounding area? And I guess, Walker, could you start by describing it for our listeners? If they haven't driven by in the past year, they'll probably be shocked.
Walker Evans: Yeah, yeah. It's a very tall, a 32, I think 32 story building. The end result will be a mix of housing, hotel, ground floor retail, several floors of parking, so it's kind of an all-in-one building. The ground floor is also going to have an expansion of the North Market, so there will be some new vendors that will interface with the existing market building, but it basically replaces the old parking lot. If people ever parked in the parking lot at the North market, that's where it is.
Juravich: And Brent, I read that this is the largest project in the city in decades. Is that true? I mean, yeah.
Warren: It probably depends on how you look at it. I think the OSU hospital probably might have been bigger if you're talking about the money. Yeah, definitely downtown, I think it is the largest. And like you said, the largest single building and the fact that it's right where it is, like you've said in that location, I mean, you can't miss it. If you're anywhere around there, you've been seeing it going up.
Juravich: Well, and Walker just described this idea of mixed use. But this is like truly super souped up mixed use because there's a hotel in there, there's residential units, retail. What else am I missing? This building's gonna have a little bit of everything.
Warren: I think they've talked about like a private club on one or two of the floors.
Evans: Maybe some office as well.
Warren: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Evans: For us, yeah.
Juravich: Everything. Yeah. And so is that, I mean, is that like how all buildings are in the future? Is that the newest trend or is it just this one in particular?
Evans: I think it's probably the most unique example of that. I mean, you see it a lot, and in Columbus too, because we have so much room to build outward, you see a lot of mixed use in the form of like three or four buildings, like the peninsula, I would say is a very mixed use development, but there's an apartment building, an office building, a hotel building, side by side by sides.
Juravich: But I feel like they're just throwing out everything in the wall and seeing what sticks. Like if I bring you back on here 10 years from now, will there still be a hotel and like, you know.
Warren: Yeah, who knows, but I think it is a little bit different. Like if you look in Columbus, in the 80s, all of the big buildings were almost entirely office buildings, and just things have changed so much that I think the current thinking among developers is you need to kind of diversify, even within one building. You get a little everything in there and it kind of spreads the risk around a little.
Juravich: Now, the North market turns 150 this year, so it's only 100 years younger than the United States, right? Yeah, but are there any other landmarks in Columbus that have been around that long? I mean, that's a long-time landmark.
Evans: Yeah, I mean 150 Yeah, yeah that or I mean around You know OSU. I'm sure has a couple of you know older buildings that are still around but it's it's pretty unique state house Yeah, the state house is up there. Yes
Juravich: So what are the thoughts, the vibes of like what it's like for the North Market? Because I went there for a few weekends in a row. I was at the Convention Center for a number of dance competitions. We ate at the North market. And with the construction, it felt a little claustrophobic. But what's the vibe for the future of the North Market?
What are people thinking about? Like, you know, once this building is done, the construction goes away. What's it going to what's it gonna do for the north market?
Evans: Yeah, I mean, I was on the board of directors of the North Market years ago, but before this project kind of got off the ground. But the idea, I think, and I don't want to speak on behalf of any specific merchants, is that if we can suffer through this construction, because there's entrances that have been closed and sidewalks that are closed and all that sort of stuff, but a lot of hungry construction workers to feed every day as well.
The end result is a giant financial boost to the North Market, because a lot of the revenue of the market came from the parking lot fees. That's what funds the nonprofit that operates the North market. So, having that new garage structure, there's a financial package built in where the developer pays for the North Markets. So in perpetuity, the North Market will be funded. This project is really like a giant pot of gold for the market, so to speak.
Juravich: Is the North Market getting any renovations? I mean, whenever, after I got through the construction and I got inside, it looked the same as I remember. Yeah.
Evans: Yeah, I don't think there's anything major planned outside of the expansion with the new vendors and the new event space. There'll be like a new kind of main entryway, atrium sort of area. I don't think the rest of the market will undergo anything major unless I'm missing something. They did a big HVAC renovation a couple of years prior.
Juravich: Yeah, and Brent, the idea that it's going to have residential units. I mean, are these going to be high-end residential units?
Warren: You know, there was some significant public money put into this project. We wrote about it a couple of years ago before construction started. So both the city and the county put money in. And I think one of the stipulations is that there would be some kind of workforce housing, like not super affordable, but some apartments in the in the tower that are a little bit more not the super luxury apartment.
So I think there will be a couple of studios. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But residential is a big part of it. I've heard the North Market Director talk about how having that people who live in the building and this is their grocery store, that's a big factor in why he liked the project because it helps to support some of these, not just the lunch places at the North market, but more of the grocery items that they like to keep going as part of the market.
Juravich: Now, right across the street from this new merchant building is the Convention Center. And there's a new Convention Center master plan that's in the works. Could this mean some major changes coming to the Convention center and surrounding area besides this merchant building? Are we expecting a lot more construction? I'm not sure who wrote about that.
Evans: I talked with Ken Paul, the director of the Franklin County Convention Facilities Authority, giant mouthful, not too long ago, and he gave a nice overview of what all they have in mind. Some of it is deferred maintenance kind of stuff that needs to be taken into account, but the most exciting thing about their master plan is accommodating an Amtrak station, because the convention center sits over top of some pretty major railroad lines, because it is where the Union Station, our old train station used to be, before Amtrak left Columbus in the late 70s.
So I don't know what the timeline is for when we could expect construction to start. Probably as soon as the North Market's done. We'll see construction start. But it sounds It's like a pretty comprehensive renovation project.
Juravich: Does it sound like they're gonna go ahead and start building some sort of passenger rail station, even if the numerous passenger rail plans that are all in various stages of being in the works, if they are not finally approved?
Evans: I mean, I think everyone is sort of like trying to stack hands on this and make sure that, because it's not just Columbus's decision, whether we get a train station or not, there's federal money, there is state money, all these different municipalities upon the line. My understanding is that the Chicago to Pittsburgh line that would run through Columbus would be first. It sounds like that's furthest along. But I'd have to imagine the convention center either way.
Juravich: It's called the "Midwest Connect." "Midwest Connect," correct, yeah.
Evans: I have to imagine they would at least be like allocating that space for that use, you know If for whatever reason this rail line doesn't happen, I can't imagine be like well, we're just gonna build something else there instead Yeah, they probably just sort of like mothball so to speak that that spot pause. Yeah, I mean it is
Warren: Yeah, I mean it is a space that's pretty much made for a train station. There's not a whole lot They're gonna put down there by the train tracks. I don't think
Evans: And a lot of their master plan, I think, has to do with some of the parking lots that Franklin County owns around the convention center. So just east of the convention center between third and fourth gigantic surface parking lot. So looking back at old plans and saying, can we do something with this? Can we build more convention space, more hotel space?
Juravich: Who owns that parking lot?
Evans: It's the county convention authority that runs the convention center. Yeah, yeah. It's their big lot like just east of some of the hotels for the jury.
Warren: And I think there's also still a lot on Goodale, right? Isn't there still a surface lot there? Yes, yeah. Next to the-
Evans: Yes, next to the garage that they built, so they have more room to grow without taking that train spot.
Juravich: And one more just one more question related to the convention center area is just a couple of blocks away experience Columbus the destination marketing organization for the city recently moved their offices to a location basically closer to the Convention Center. Do you think that was a strategic move for tourism and conventions is that a good location for them. They were in the arena district right.
Warren: Yeah, yeah, I think you wrote about...
Evans: That didn't you Walker yeah we did we did a quick piece I haven't been inside yet but the space looks really nice from the photos I've seen but yeah they were at like nationwide and Neil so close to like Huntington Park kind of between Huntington park and nationwide arena so they're probably getting like the sports demographic in there but if you're in the short north if you in hotels Convention Center it's a bit of a hike so yeah it sounds like a better fit for visitors
Juravich: You're listening to All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. We're talking about development in and around Columbus with Walker Evans, co-founder of Columbus Underground, and Brent Warren, reporter for Columbus Underground. Let's transition to transportation for a moment. COTA was recently awarded a $900,000 Build America grant to hire, they're gonna hire a transit-oriented development advisor, architects, engineering services. Can you tell us a little bit about what's being proposed and what a Build America grant does?
Warren: Yeah, well, we just found out about this recently, actually, and it's, you know, COTA bought that land back in 2021. So they've been sitting on it for a while. It's a huge spot. It is right in the middle of downtown. And this grant is actually, I believe the purpose of it is for transit agencies who own land like this in very transit friendly locations to do what they call transit-oriented development on that land.
Transit oriented development. So dense development. Maybe you don't need as much parking as you might in other places And you add residents maybe retail offices, but they haven't gotten into any of those details yet
Juravich: Oh, see, I was thinking like a bus station. So that's not okay. No, no, no. I mean, they're
Warren: There may be like a transit element to it, but actually from my understanding that does not necessarily need to be the major part of the development. That's just a portion of it.
Juravich: So COTA bought this as an investment property, basically.
Warren: Yeah, I think so.
Juravich: OK, wow. All right. Well, talk to me a little bit about the former Greyhound station downtown. Is are there any plans for redevelopment there? Is is that? Oh, I thought that's what we were talking about. That's what were talking. OK. Yeah. OK, I'm sorry. I was getting confused. So where are they? So this is where the Greyhounds station used to be. This is the land. But they're not going to turn into a Greyhoun station, is what you're saying.
Warren: No, that's not, there may be a Greyhound station as part of it. I'm sure they wouldn't rule that out, you know, like a ground floor basement level kind of thing. But that's the thrust of the development. And I don't think that's what the grant is about. I think the grant about significant mixed use development going into a transit friendly, transit-adjacent spot like that.
Juravich: Okay, so COTA basically taking this land and building something.
Warren: Yeah, and I think the idea is they would partner with the developer to do it. They wouldn't be the one to spearhead the project.
Juravich: The COTA is on a real estate developer. Right, right, right.
Warren: Right, right, right. This grant, I think, puts a team in place, like architects, planners, to kind of put a plan together and see what makes sense, what could we build on this site.
Juravich: Yeah, Walker, do we need a Greyhound station in Columbus?
Evans: I mean, it's always better to have more transportation options than not. I think a lot of people are upset when Greyhound kind of relocated that stop out to the West Side. But it's also been downsizing services after it was acquired, I think by a German company, I forget the name of the company. They've really sort of like sold off a lot their assets. They've closed stations, I thinking like Cleveland and Philadelphia as well.
So it's, it would be great to have something Greyhounds. I don't know if it has to be that specific brand or that entity, but yeah. I think the really interesting thing, too, about the former ground station location is that it's very close to the LinkUS lines. It'll be right, it'll be one of the corners, I think, of the capital line, the bike and pedestrian path through downtown.
And so, when you start looking at some of those different things and having this sort of be like an anchor hub, could there be bike lockers and bike parking where people transition from riding their bikes on this loop to getting on a LinkUS line, or vice versa, and so.
Juravich: Okay, so we just have to be patient, right, and wait for all of this to happen in the next, like, three to...
Warren: It's a slow process. That's the Columbus story. Not only do you have all these major transportation projects kind of which are always slow, but you also have federal funding involved. So it's been a slow, process definitely.
Juravich: So COTA recently made some announcements. They're running busses past midnight for the first time since the pandemic. Its short-term plans include a 24-hour network. Can you tell me a little bit more about what COTA's doing to try to upscale here?
Warren: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a pretty big deal. This is part of their short range transit plan, as you said. So I think that they're still taking input on this. You can take a survey on their website about it. So it's not set in stone yet, but they've outlined this plan to run hourly service overnight on I think like 12 lines or something. So, you know, COTA just last year celebrated its 50th anniversary. They've never run 24-hour service in Columbus in that time. So. That would be a big deal. I think it would be a big step for Columbus.
Juravich: The city's growing up. Yes. They're also increasing service. There's increasing service on weekdays by 25 percent, which is probably involves some of those lines, too. And then on Saturdays, they say they're increasing by 64 percent. And on Sundays, they're increasingly by 75 percent, which is a whole lot of percents. Yes. Right. Like, so are there basically like only six busses running on Sunday or something?
Warren: Oh yeah, the Sunday schedule can be pretty sparse, especially for some of these lines that are not frequent to begin with.
Juravich: Okay, a 75% increase is a lot.
Warren: Yes. Yeah. What COTA has said is that they've seen ridership change so much since the pandemic. It's much less of a pure workforce rush hour kind of system. It's more like people may need to take the bus any day of the week for any number of reasons. So it makes sense, and I think it's something a lot of other agencies are doing where you add to your weekend service because that's where the demand is.
Juravich: So Walker, this idea that COTA is expanding, they made all these announcements before gas prices were crazy. So do you think that is this going to be enough now?
Evans: I mean, it'll certainly be helpful. It'll have those options. I ride the bus a lot. I rode it here today to this. But you know, I think COTA is, it works really well if you live in sort of the 1950 boundaries of Columbus, where, you know if you're just going from Grandview to Bexley or you know Clintonville to German Village, like you can get around really fast and easy. It took me 10 minutes to get here, you now.
If you're trying to go from Dublin to Grove City, that's a whole other story. You know, it might take you two hours. But a lot of that you know, central Ohio 1950s boundary is where we've seen so much development over the past 20 years. You know, this is where young people are moving, it's where apartments are going up. There's a lot of added density to places like Franklinton and Old Town East. And so I think increasing the bus service is gonna be able to provide those people an option that don't necessarily wanna drive and park, and paying to park costs more. And like you said, gas prices are up. So yeah, those options are great.
Juravich: They're also upgrading lines five and six to make them more frequent. So busses every 15 minutes, which is kind of the style of like the number two, everyone knows that goes down high street. So is it just having more that do what, what the high street busses do?
Warren: Yeah, having that high frequent network is so important. If you don't have to carefully plan your trip, if you can just go outside and have that assurance that there's going to be a bus within the next five or 10 minutes, that makes a huge difference in how you get around.
Juravich: If you miss a bus, then you know you're waiting for a long time. Well, programming note, we do have plans. In a couple of weeks, we're going to interview the CEO of COTA. So we'll get all of these COTA questions answered and some of my confusion will probably be cleared up. So coming up, we are going to continue talking with Columbus Underground about what's going on above ground in Columbus and we're gonna talk about the need for more housing and what's being done about it.
You're listening to All Sides on 89.7 NPR news. You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. As the Midwest's fastest growing city, Columbus is undergoing many changes, but the city is also playing catch up. There's not enough housing, not enough affordable housing, and the transit system is long overdue for an upgrade. Plans are underway for renovations to older housing in downtown Columbus as well.
We're talking about development changes happening in and around the city, and still with us is Walker Evans, co-founder of Columbus Underground. Thanks again for being here, Walker.
Walker Evans: Thanks for having me.
Juravich: And Brent Warren, reporter for Columbus Underground. Thanks for being here, Brent. And housing, especially affordable housing, is always in great demand. How is Columbus doing with meeting its housing needs right now? What kind of assessment would you give of how we're doing with building?
Evans: Uh, not great, I would say, but I don't think that's a unique Columbus problem. I think a lot of cities are just struggling to keep up growing cities. You know, um, we've seen it with some of our peers, but, you know, every time I think someone sees a new apartment building and it's a hundred new units, they're like, oh, we're meeting the demand. But I think the region grows by like 25 to 30,000 people per year. So, I mean, it's, it, there's more needed.
Juravich: So how many more of those apartment buildings with a hundred apartments do we need, right?
Evans: A lot.
Juravich: When I had you on the show to talk about your book, your map book that you wrote, we talked about how Columbus is kind of like a teenager of a city or in its early 20s, like it's not this like seasoned old city. So like, where are we looking at housing? Are you saying like another 20 years will we catch up or we'll never or we're like, So we're just never going to catch up.
Warren: Well, I think one thing is and I will say like since I started writing about this the last like 10 or 12 years The awareness of it as an issue has increased a lot. I mean basically everybody in Columbus Talks about the need for affordable housing, but you know actually making it happen is the next step And that's like you said we're a young city and we're growing so this is sort of the next 10 years is is key you know, how can we keep up with growth and can we housing units coming to sort of meet the the growing population that's it's going to be really interesting to see.
Juravich: Walker, Columbus Underground has a strong community of commenters who love to comment either on your stories or on your social media. When you write a story about affordable housing, what are the comments you get? Do people tell you, define affordable?
Evans: Yes, yeah, that's a huge question and Brent wrote a great piece That's been updated a couple of times now on what affordable housing actually means and kind of going into like the area median income Evaluation and like what it means for like a rental versus to own and all of that sort of stuff because a lot of people Just think affordable housing means affordable to me. Yeah, and there's actually like federal definitions It's basically it's low-income housing affordable housing. Means low-income housing
Juravich: Right. So we're using the word affordable housing incorrectly sometimes, is that? We're thinking affordable to me instead of affordable to most.
Warren: Right. And it's also when you're building new housing, it's really that was another thing I've written about over the years is it's. Really hard to build new housing that is actually affordable to low income people, and it requires a lot of subsidies and government programs and sort of bringing capital in from all these different sources in order to make that work. So and a lot of times that happens and it's at a level that people think, oh, that still doesn't really seem affordable. But just it's important to get the units on the market at all the different levels as many as you can. I mean, that's sort of the key.
Juravich: And there's always a decision being made of whether you make the rent lower or you provide subsidies to help people afford the rent at the other level, right? Is that, and that's a decision that like cities and developers are making all the time.
Warren: Yeah, and a lot of that comes from sort of like above. The state has different policies, the federal government has different policies and those are changing a lot over the years. So it's a lot to keep track of for, especially for affordable housing developers. It's like the most complicated kind of development, especially when you're doing it in existing neighborhoods where you have all these other problems. You have neighbors who might not be happy about the development or they don't want to see new buildings going up right next door to them. You have all kinds of other problems that come into play.
Juravich: Let's talk about some buildings that are being built. Sometimes old buildings need to come down to make way for new ones. And construction has been happening a lot around Columbus State Community College. Can you tell us about the historical significance of some buildings and what's being removed to make away for new construction? Maybe give us a little like Columbus State area update.
Warren: Sure, yeah, I can start. Columbus State, just recently, just last week, I think demolished a couple of buildings right at the corner of Cleveland and Spring, I think. One of them was just a one-story, sort of uninteresting building, not that old. The other one was like a, people might have seen it, it's painted kind of a shade of pink, and it's an old house from like, you know, it's 100 or 100 plus years old, and it does have, You know. Of course, there's interesting stories with any old building, but it had been vacant for a number of years, and Columbus State is building affordable housing on that site, along with Woder Cooper, which is an affordable housing developer in Columbus.
Juravich: And Walker is the goal here for housing for Columbus State students, low-income residents, both.
Evans: I think it's gonna be kind of student focused. I mean, given the proximity and the partnership there. But when you think about Columbus State students, it's a really big mix of like 18 year olds right out of high school, as well as people kind of older who are trying to reenter the workforce and take a different career path, technical programs. And so being able to have something that's not just like studio apartments, I think is part of the plan.
Juravich: Yeah, and Columbus State is seeing a lot of growth. They're building 100,000 square foot building called the Ohio Center for Advanced Technologies, and they're building what they're calling Ohio Health Hall. So what does this mean for Columbus State? It just means they're gonna have more programs, more students, they need more space.
Warren: Yeah, I mean, part of this is, and Walker, you can talk to this also, Columbus State has had plans on its books for years about building on some of these giant parking lots that they have downtown.
Juravich: They do have a lot of parking.
Warren: Yes, and they're actually doing it now, you know to give them credit that health building is under construction now It's all framed up. It's it's it going up. They built the the culinary school building Mitchell Hall Yeah, Mitchell Hall not that long ago. That was on a parking lot and then they have They haven't started this one. I don't think they've gotten approval yet, but they have plans to build a YMCA and a daycare center and a park as also on that one of those big parking
Evans: Yeah, that would be the relocated downtown YMCA since the historic building is becoming affordable housing right now.
Juravich: Okay, so the downtown YMCA is being transitioned into housing, right?
Evans: Yeah, the historic building that's long and front, yes.
Juravich: Okay. And the plan is to move the YMCA to near Columbus state. Yeah. Yeah. But you're saying it's not official yet. Is that what you mean?
Warren: I don't think they've been to the Commission yet for that to actually get approval, but they've announced the plans, definitely.
Juravich: Are they gonna call it a YMCA or is it gonna be a column? Okay.
Evans: Yeah, that would be an official YMCA location.
Juravich: Okay, and so and they want to also have that's where they want to have their child care center in there too, because I believe so. Is it a YMCA child care Center, not a Columbus State one? Maybe? I don't know. Possibly. We'd have to we'd have to. We'll do some searching later. All right. Yeah.
Well, and then pivoting to another development. I wanted to talk about the Westminster Thurber demolitions because I think you write about this brand idea. Okay, so located the corner of Neal Avenue and Goodale is Westminster, Thurber, Ohio. Senior housing complex. Am I calling it the right name? I don't know. Okay, there's several words in there. Okay. What is planned for this site? What's happening there?
Warren: Well, um, I should say they were very clear that this is a very preliminary plan. They've submitted plans of the city They said it still could change but what they're planning right now And the plans that they submitted call for tearing down one of the older buildings Not the one that's right on the corner of Goodale Which you kind of think it's kind of diagonal and it looks it looks out on downtown The one kind of up kneel from that it was built in 1965. It's an older building So rather than...
Juravich: So rather than renovate it, they're gonna tear it down.
Warren: They want to tear it down, yeah, and there's also this sort of sprawling one-story building that is sort of in kind of the center of their campus that they also want to tear down. That's where I think they call it their health care center. So that would create space for like three or four new buildings, kind of mid-rise buildings with parking garages underneath, more residences, a new health care center kind of reimagining their campus a little bit.
Juravich: Okay, for people who don't know, including myself, so this is all senior living, right? Yes, yes. Okay, is it like...
Warren: Well, Ohio Living is a nonprofit organization, so I'm actually not sure about that location if there is some affordability built in or not, but it's a pretty nice facility if you've ever been there. Yeah.
Juravich: Okay, no, I haven't been there. So Walker, when we talk about, I feel like when we talk about affordable housing and the need for housing for low income residents, I'm not sure we're thinking about seniors when we talked about that, but we should be, right?
Evans: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's a giant aging population right now, you know, and so
Juravich: We seem like such a young city and growing city, though, but they're.
Evans: Yeah, yeah all across America, but in Columbus as well and and you know a lot of those Future I'm trying to be delicate with words here future seniors that are going to be living in those kinds of communities Are the folks today who might be living and McMansions in the suburbs and so they want to downsize They want to have specific amenities they want a move into a walkable community the really great thing about Westminster Thurber's You're next to Lucky's Market So they have like some of the best grocery store access you know, a hundred feet from their front door. And so I think a lot of people want to be in a place where they can stay active and stay a part of a community. And a lot the large residential kind of sprawl out in the suburbs doesn't always offer that.
Juravich: You're listening to All Sides on 89.7 WOSU NPR News. We're talking about development in and around Columbus with Walker Evans, co-founder of Columbus Underground, and Brent Warren, reporter for Columbus Underground. I wanted to transition to Old Town East a little bit, working its way through the approval process or plans for a five-story building in Old Town east. This includes, does this include apartments?
Warren: Yeah, it's all it's for rent. It's all apartments. Yeah
Juravich: Okay, so this will have will be one of those retail in the bottom apartments above.
Warren: Yes, although I think the retail spot is pretty small. It's like maybe a room for a small cafe or something like that. And then they have townhome units on the rest of the ground floor.
Juravich: Talk to me about Old Town East. Is it growing? Is it a growing neighborhood? Is there room for more people down there?
Evans: Yeah, I live in the sort of King Lincoln area, which is like next door neighbors with a little town east. The lines are kind of blurred between the two around Broad Street. But the near east side, yeah, is definitely growing a lot of new in-ville buildings. It's kind of quieter development, I would say, because the neighborhood is so much more residential. A lot of it is just historic homes. But you find some of those, like the development you're referring to on like a corner lot that's been kind of sitting empty or there's like a one-story building. And so I think we'll see more of that sort of stuff.
In King Lincoln along Long Street on the near east side. There's been a massive amount of infill around the Lincoln Theater. New apartment buildings, new ground floor retail. My wife and I have lived there for nearly 18 and a half years, and it's more vibrant than it's ever been.
Juravich: Well, let's talk about that at being a five story building, because I feel like a part of that is related to Columbus changing some zoning regulations. So the idea was that the city's zoning regulations were out of date and the city needed to make some changes to build more and build more faster. Are we seeing the results of those zoning changes yet or are we not? It's not that fast.
Warren: I think we've seen some examples of projects that have moved faster because of the new zoning changes. I think that we probably have not seen as much as might have been predicted just because a lot of other things happened around the same time. We had a change in federal government and the administration, which there's been some issues with the economy. You've had tariffs, you've had inflation, you had the interest rates, which developers really care a lot about. So I think there are things working to kind of slow down the building of the new development proposals at the same time that you had this zoning, this new zoning code put in place on a lot of the major corridors. Okay.
Juravich: Okay. I mean, I talk about this numerous times on the show where I apparently lack patience. I don't know. I guess I'm, I am, I'm impatient. So, so zone in happens there and there's zoning changes and it's supposed to allow for less regulation so that you can, you can build a five story building without having to get approval from like
Warren: Right, just basically to speed up the process because it can take a long time and a lot of expense to get these projects off the drawing board.
Juravich: And there's a lot of small area commissions that have all kinds of feelings about it. I understand that, but it's happened and zoning's changed. But I guess I was expecting like just construction all of a sudden, like everyone was ready to go, but that's not true. There's still all kinds of like regulations and proposal processes, even if it might be a little faster.
Warren: Yeah, and it's not, I mean, I think it's a complicated process, so it's not all on the regulation side. You know, there's like the things I mentioned are kind of on the financing side, which
Juravich: Which...
Warren: Also slows things down and actually the city doesn't have a whole lot to do with that, so.
Juravich: So developers have to have money and want to do this so the city can change regulations all all the live long day. But if no one has the money to build it.
Warren: Right, and if all of a sudden there's tariffs on steel and wood from Canada, then maybe that slows down a project that wouldn't have a problem getting the zoning, but now there's other issues with getting everything together to build it.
Juravich: Do you have any predictions of where we're gonna see changes because of this zone in change?
Evans: I mean, I think the hotspots will continue to be the hotspot for the near future. The first phase of the zoning changes were along corridors, and some of those are areas like Sullivan Avenue on the west side or Main Street going toward Bexley. But I think developers are generally pretty risk-averse, most of them, and they want build where they know that they're going to make money in their return. I think some people are like, oh, you're allowed to build a 16 story building, you know, out by the casino. So that's going to happen tomorrow and it's not going to happen tomorrow. That's me.
Juravich: That's me. I'm like, okay, where... Yeah.
Evans: But I think we'll continue to see, you know, Franklin-ton, like Parsons, you know, there's development like around Children's Hospital, like some of those areas we'll continued to see more, but there's a lot of empty land in the city.
Warren: And some of those actually have happened right as the zoning was getting changed. There's a really interesting project, I think, at the corner of 9th and High, just south of campus, where it's a, I, think, 13-story building going up. It's mass timber construction, which is a really neat climate-friendly way to...
Juravich: You're going to have to tell me more. You look excited. I don't know what math timber is. I don't know what mass timber is.
Warren: It's like our first one in Columbus.
Juravich: What does that mean?
Warren: It means instead of having a steel frame to the building, it's a frame that's actually made out of wood But it's like wood that's kind of been oops. I'm using my hands to describe which is does not help on the radio Yeah, been sort of pressure treated and glued together to make a really strong structural material okay, that's sort of a Alternative to steel and it's more climate friendly because steel is very it's lot of carbon dioxide that's produced in the steelmaking process. That's our first one in Columbus. It's also 13 stories. There's no parking in the building, which is a big deal for Columbus also. And it was approved right at the time that the city was putting through the zoning changes. So I think that played a role in them getting approval to be 13 stories in that spot.
Juravich: So it's close to campus, so is the idea it's gonna be apartments that are affordable for students maybe?
Warren: Yeah, it'll definitely be a student-oriented development.
Juravich: Maybe not affordable, but you know But, you know.
Warren: This is where the beer stube used to be. Right.
Juravich: And so is this timber cheaper than steel too?
Warren: I think it can be. I don't know exactly the economics of it. It probably depends. I think the wood they're getting from Alabama.
Juravich: I'll pay better attention next time to the frame of a building. All right. We are talking with Walker Evans and Brent Warren from Columbus Underground. And coming up, we are going to talk about current conditions with tariffs and gas prices and how that might impact more future development.
You're listening to All Sides on 89.7 WOSU NPR news. You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. Driving up and down High Street, you'll see hotels and apartment developments in various stages of construction. Orange barrels, closed lanes, and rerouted traffic, along with that construction, are signs of development already underway. We're talking about the above ground changes in transit and development with Columbus Underground. Still with us is Walker Evans, co-founder of Columbus Underground, thanks for being here, Walker.
Walker Evans: And happy to be here.
Juravich: And Brent Warren, reporter for Columbus Underground. Thanks for being here, Brent. Thanks for that. I wanted to talk about a development that was actually paused. I don't know if we wanna use the word canceled or paused, but the Edwards Company canceled plans for a $600 million project in downtown recently. They said it was on hold due to market difficulties. And this was gonna be a big project, six downtown blocks, something like five buildings. Walker, what kind of setback, it sounds like a setback.
Evans: Yeah. And I mean, Edwards has been working on a variety of projects. He has some other things that are that are still underway right now. It was a very generic, you know, market conditions is a very generic way to frame it. Yeah. Some some developers, you know, Brent's, you know, done some pieces about kind of what the national, you know, and global economy has meant to local development. And I think some developers are afraid to point fingers at the Trump administration or any specific policies. But others have flat out said these tariffs are hurting us and we have to delay or pause or restructure what we're doing as a result.
Juravich: Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you. Does market conditions mean tariffs, cost of gas, all of the above?
Warren: Yeah, I think it's all of the above, but you know, part of the thing that the developers who were willing to talk to me about this, it's not just the fact of the tariffs, it was all the uncertainty surrounding the tariffs. So it's like these projects are planned years in advance. They have pro formas that go into the greatest details down to like what kind of cabinets are going to be on all the apartments, that's before anything is even built. You know, they have this all planned out. So to have federal policy kind of. Shifting week to week where you don't know what's going to happen and how that's going to impact your project, I think it does have an effect on the willingness of local developers to go forward with some of these projects.
Juravich: Did the Edwards Company say pause or say cancel?
Evans: I think they were a little vague on that, yeah.
Juravich: Okay, but $600 million, six downtown blocks, I mean, where was this supposed to be? I mean that's like, that seems like a lot.
Evans: Yeah, it was kind of basically east of the state house, around like State Street and 3rd. So some of those.
Juravich: So some of those one and two story things. Yeah, kind of.
Evans: Yeah, kind of around like where the dispatch line is the old dispatch building. There's a couple of parking lots kind of around that area
Warren: I think development almost all of it was on existing surface parking lots. Yeah party down
Evans: If anyone knows where like the YWCA building is kind of in that area next to that. Yeah. Yeah
Juravich: Okay, but it's no more, so we'll have to just let...
Evans: I'm confident that it will come back. I think if the economy rebounds, if the tariffs go away, I think we could see it kind of bounce back. But again, it's one developer who's also working on other projects as well. So it's not like everything was canceled.
Juravich: So maybe market conditions for the Edwards company meant they had to focus on another project instead.
Warren: Yeah, yeah, maybe another developer picks up and does something on those same lives for sure possible. Yeah
Evans: I think one other thing too that a lot of people are kind of a little hesitant to talk about but just the ice crackdowns and stuff, you know, you read about them going after, you know anyone with brown skin on a construction site, you now whether they're documented undocumented it causes a lot I think additional strife and stress in industries where you a lot of immigrants, you know.
Juravich: And finding construction workers, yeah. Yeah.
Evans: Yeah, yeah, and so if it's kind of disruptive to that side of the market which you know even before you know Two three five years ago a lot of construction companies are saying like it's hard to find skilled laborers You know, there's a shortage of carpenters and electricians and people hanging drywall and stuff like that And so I think any disruption, you know across that industry is gonna disrupt everything
Juravich: And then pivoting to another project in my lack of patience that I can't believe it hasn't been completed yet. So it's been two years since there was announcement of the Capital Line project. So this is a two mile long bike and pedestrian pathway. The first phase is underway right now. Tell our listeners where this is and what it was supposed to be, but it's supposed to bike and pedestrians focused, get the cars out of the way, right?
Warren: And it's actually they've started work on it. Our offices are right there at gay and high. So yeah, we've seen the work It's it's it actually happening. We can confirm you promise. Yes. Yes, and that first leg of it is Gay Street between Like fourth or fourth and front fourth and Front. Yeah, so that part of Gay Street
Juravich: So what will it look like? Are we going to not have cars on Gay Street anymore?
Warren: We'll have only two lanes devoted to cars so there'll be cars can travel in both directions but most of the parking on that on those blocks will be taken out and there'll be a nice sort of comfy bike lane with lots of room as well as a large sidewalk, lots of street furniture, lots of landscaping. They're talking about getting local art kind of incorporated into the whole project. So it'll be a different feel, yeah.
Juravich: When it when it's done, though, it's supposed to be two miles. Like what you're talking about is not.
Warren: That's your first leg, and then it'll go over the river, it'll turn, go past kind of Kosai, and then go across the river again on Rich Street and to Fourth Street. So it'll make a loop kind of around the State House, not right up against the State house, but a larger loop.
Juravich: Okay. You're downtown more than I am. Are there a lot of bikers and pedestrians? Or is this going to be a highly used thing once it's done?
Evans: Oh, yeah. I mean, I ride my bike a lot, and the bike lanes that are on third and fourth and spring and long, kind of running east-west and north-south, they're utilized even though they aren't protected lanes. You know, a lot of bikers want to see more of that sort of stuff. I feel like bike infrastructure is one of those things. Like, you do the bare minimum and you get the bare minimum number of riders. A five-year-old on a bike with training wheels is not going to ride down a 45-mile-an-hour street in protected lane. So, the better the infrastructure is, the more utilized you'll see it.
I would say, if you want a true test of patience, come hang out at our office with us and listen to the construction noise all day long. But my understanding of phase one is, it's going to take the longest because Gay Street has the most underground utilities that they have to be delicate working around. There's water and gas and fiber and electric and all this sort of stuff. So, once this first phase is done, the other phases should be relatively quick to get the full loop done.
Juravich: Okay, relatively quick, right? Relatively quick, yeah, yeah. All right, we'll talk about it. You'll be back in a year and I'll be like, hey, what was relatively quick? What was relatively quick.
Warren: It's still going, yeah. The other thing, if I could add something about the Capital Line is, you know, like some of the bike advocates I would say over the years would support just kind of protected bike lanes everywhere or getting a grid established or something sort of like very straightforward for bike commuters, but the Capital line is sort of going for a broader audience. Like it's gonna be super easy to understand and to use. You know, it's a loop. You start walking in one place and you'll end up in that same place. Eventually and it's gonna go past a lot of the kind of stops downtown that people like to visit. So it's sort of like For beginners in the like walking or biking in a urban area. It'll be right up their alley and It'll sort of draw people in who otherwise Are hesitant to take that step to like really biking or walking around
Evans: I think a great example of that, like if you stay at the Junto Hotel now, they have like amenities for hotel guests to use, like kayaks and bikes. They have a whole like storage room with this stuff. So today, if you stayed at the Junto, you could take out a bike and ride and go to a show at the Southern Theater if you felt like taking your life into your own hands because you're on all these busy streets, a lot of them are one way. Main street is like people drive 45 miles an hour one way So building the infrastructure to accommodate that will allow those people to take advantage of amenities that already exist that just feel unsafe to take advantage of.
Juravich: You're listening to All Sides on 89.7 WOSU NPR News. We're talking about development in and around Columbus with Walker Evans and Brent Warren from Columbus Underground. I wanted to touch on, one of you wrote a story not too far from where we're sitting right now in our WOSU studios, you wrote about the "Wexner Center for the Arts." Because of the connection to Jeffrey Epstein, people have wanted Les Wexter's name removed from a lot of buildings on campus, including the "Wexner Center for the Arts," but unrelated, but happening at the same time. There are plans that have been unveiled that could end up demolishing the Wexner Center's theater. Can you tell us what you know about this Ohio State project? And it's just a proposal, is my understanding.
Warren: My understanding. Yeah, I think that they hired a consultant or they're about to to study it, so to look into it further. But this is a plan that has actually been around for, it's an idea that's been around, for years. I remember talking to Keith Myers, who is the head of planning at OSU years ago, about this idea of kind of re-establishing what they call the long walk, which is like the sidewalk that goes right from the library and it used to go straight to what they call like the front door of OSU's campus, which is the intersection of 15th and High.
And when they built the Wexner Center, they kind of interrupted that flat path a little bit because the underground theater that's part of the Weksner Center kind of pops up a little.
Speaker 6: Okay
Warren: And there's kind of like a raised plaza there where on top of the theater and that creates on one side People may know if they went to OSU. It's called the whispering wall where you can sit on one side of it and whisper in here, you know, it's like a curved concrete wall a kind of a bench kind of thing um, so the proposal what they talked about back then and what they're kind of re-proposing now is to get rid of that The whispering wall and that raised plazza and make that pathway goes sort of straight from the intersection from High Street all the way to kind of make it an unobstructed path from High street to the library. But that involves taking out that theater basically, which a lot of people are upset about. And I'll actually pitch another news outlet, "Matter News" is a great story where they talked about what that theater means to people and how important it is to the Wexner Center and to the sort of film people who... Who have talked there and worked there over the years.
Juravich: I will say that when we did the groundbreaking for this building that we sit in right now in 2019, that discussion about the front door of Ohio State and changing that was on the table in 2019. And we're in 2026 and so nothing has happened. So therefore, my patients would tell me.
Warren: Yeah
Juravich: That could be so I it's so it's it's resurfaced though because I haven't heard about it since 2019
Warren: 2019. It's coming up again. They talked about it the first time when they were working on what they called like the arts district and they ended up building these two new buildings on college for the department of music and the theater department I think. Yeah. And they didn't end up really touching the Wexner Center even though they had talked about that. So now they're kind of
Juravich: Yeah, it was a smaller plan for an arts district is what it ended up being. Right, right. They cut it down a little bit, yes. Okay, well before we end, we have a couple of minutes left. Walker, I wanted you to tell me about your, was it called an urban living tour?
Evans: Yeah, we do an annual urban living tour. We've produced 13, 14 years. I forget which year this was, but it was two weekends ago, May 3rd. We had 16 different stops. It's kind of a fun, we did it on a Sunday morning, so it's kind of like a brunchy, fun way to go out and just see all of these new buildings. Most of them have been built or renovated within the past four or five years.
Juravich: Give me an example. So it's for people who are intrigued about living downtown to go see things that they normally can't see.
Evans: Yeah, some people are looking for an apartment and they want to move in next week. Some people, you know, are like, ah, maybe in a year, you know, I want to change or something like that. It's a pretty diverse crowd that attends.
Warren: And some people like me just want to check out the building. Yeah, yeah.
Evans: Yeah, yeah, they want to see the architecture, the interior design.
Warren: Where the views, I mean, one of the stops on this year's tour was the Continental Tower, which is on Gay Street and it's, I don't know, 30 some, 35 stories tall or something like that. Yeah, yeah.
Juravich: And you get to see up.
Evans: You get to go up there, they have a pool on the roof, and you get the views. Former office building converted into residential building. The Deal Whitaker building over in my neighborhood was a new one this year as well in the corner of Long and Hamilton. They're installing a big clock on the outside of the building, which looks really cool. It's kind of a fun, casual way to go out and have some coffee, eat some bagels, grab a mimosa, stroll the places, see what's new.
Juravich: In the 30 seconds that we have left, I'm going to let you also, Walker, plug something new. You recently launched a new feature focusing on local musicians. Tell us what the sounds of Columbus is.
Evans: Yeah, we wanted to do kind of like an annual feature spotlighting some of the musicians making waves each year. And so we picked 12 different musicians for 2026 and gave them all full in-depth articles and photographs and we'll be promoting them all year long.
Juravich: All right, find that at the Columbus Underground website. I want to say thank you to Walker Evans, co-founder of Columbus Underground. Thanks for being here today. Thanks a lot. And Brent Warren, reporter for Columbus Underground, thank you for being your Brent. Thanks a little.
And you've been listening to All Sides on 89.7 WOSU NPR News. If you missed any part of today's show, you can listen back at our website, wosu.org slash all sides. Subscribe to the podcast. Every episode is for free in our mobile app. Also, like the show on Facebook and follow us on Instagram. I'm looking for more Instagram followers at All Sides WOSU. And this has been All Sides on 89.7 WOSU NPR News. I'm Amy Juravich.