From AI, to skills-based jobs to a growing immigrant population, we're looking at what’s redefining central Ohio’s workforce and economy.
We’ll share powerful stories, elevate the voices most affected and examine what’s working and what’s not.
The discussion happened as part of WOSU's Inside: Reshaping Work Townhall.
Host:
- Amy Juravich, host of All Sides with Amy Juravich, WOSU Public Media
Panel:
- Lisa Patt-McDaniel, CEO, Aspyr
- Chris Berry, CEO, Ohio X
- Nadia Kasvin, director, US Together
Transcript
This transcript is generated with AI. To ensure its accuracy, review the audio file.
Amy Juravich: Today for our final episode of Untangled Reshaping Work, we're going to air a town hall discussion that was recorded recently for WOSU TV. It explores all the changes in our workforce and what it means for our community.
WOSU Public Media presents Inside Reshaping Work, a townhall style look at our changing economy. Welcome to the latest edition of WOSU's Inside Project, where we dive deep into a topic vital to our community. This is Inside Reshaping Work. The way we work is changing and changing fast.
Advanced manufacturing and artificial intelligence are creating jobs and threatening jobs. More and more people question the value of a college degree. Immigrants are playing a growing role in our economy. The shifts are creating opportunities and uncertainties for employers, workers, and families around the country and here in central Ohio.
Over the next hour, we'll explore what these changes mean for our community. Let's start with where our economy and our workforce are now and where they are heading in the near future. There is one constant in this world of change. Change is here to stay for workers and employers.
Speaker 3: People can no longer expect and haven't been for quite some time to be able to stay in the same job with the same company and the same reliable old pension. So people do need to be to be adapt. They need to able to identify the skills that they have and be able talk about the ways in which those skills transfer across industries.
Juravich: Transferring skills seems to be more and more important in today's economy. And to get our conversation going, we are joined now by Lisa Pat McDaniel, the CEO of Aspire, a workforce innovation organization. She has worked in this area for years and has seen a lot of change. Welcome to the show, Lisa.
Lisa Patt-McDaniel: Thank you for having me. And I just mentioned that the only constant is change. So how do we plan and prepare for the worker of tomorrow when we don't know what tomorrow is?
Juravich: That is a very good question. I think one of the things that we always say in workforce is you have to be a continuous learner. You have to always be open to finding out what skills do I need to keep up on?
What skills do need to learn next? You can't just assume because you have a credential or you've been in a job for five years or you got a degree, that that is going to statically prepare you for the rest of your career. And so people just are gonna have to learn to be curious, adapt, try to continuously learn what's next.
Juravich: So are the days of having one job for 30 to 40 years, is that over?
Patt-McDaniel: Oh, that's way over. Way over, so it's been over, okay. That's way.
Juravich: So how do you, when people are mid-career though, how do talk to them and convince them that like, yes, learning something new, being that lifelong learner is valuable.
Patt-McDaniel: Yeah, that's a great question, too. I think that there's always fear in change, but when change is a constant, I think you have to learn to not live with that fear, but take action. And I think when you are mid-career, you have be convinced that the only way to adapt to that change is to take action, and start and start to learn. Because even if you stay in the same job, that job is not the same as when you first started.
And so we have to make it comfortable for people to learn, we have show them how there's so many resources for them to gain skills online, at the library, there's just so many places that you can learn them in the comfort of your own home or on your own.
Juravich: So is this on the worker to want to learn more or does the employer need to incentivize?
Patt-McDaniel: Employers have an equal role in this because employers, last time I checked, they're in it to make money. And the way you make money at whatever it is your business does is to have a skilled workforce.
And so I think it is on employers equally, if not more so too, because they're the ones who signal what are the skills I'm needing and how can I help you learn those skills. So it's an equal, right? It's not just on the employee.
Juravich: So I wanted to pivot a little bit to educating the workforce of tomorrow. We asked our audience for questions in advance of this program, and we got a good question from Katie Lease. So she asks, what would have to change for parents and communities to see two-year degrees and industry-recognized credentials as first-choice pathways, instead of just a backup plan, a traditional four-year college? So what would you say to Katie's question?
Patt-McDaniel: I'd say, Katie, do you have the answer for that? I spent a lot of my career thinking about that.
I think what it comes down to, we talk a lot about educating parents about what the opportunities are, especially the moms, and trying to do that when a child is in middle school, so that they can see what those opportunities are so they can understand what the wages are, because one of my favorite stories is I had a young man who did not go to college, he got a welding certificate and he was going to work for a local ambulance manufacturer. And he said, do you see that over there? That's what I'm gonna be doing.
And in four years, my friends are gonna come back and some of them might be working for Starbucks. I, on the other hand, will have a house and I'll be driving my F-150 to their graduation party. And I wish I could have captured him then. Right?
Because he understood that for him and what he wanted to do, that path to a wage and to be able to accumulate the lifestyle that he wanted was going to be a lot quicker. And I think we just need to, the only way we're going to accomplish that, it's not having the children get the opportunities exposed, having them exposed to them. It's having the parents actually see the opportunity, not just be told about them.
Juravich: Well, you mentioned starting in middle school. I happen to know a few middle schoolers. And I'm not 100% sure they're thinking about what, I mean, you know, kids get asked all the time, what do I want to be when I grow up? But I'm sure that a middle schooler wants to make that decision. So tell me what it's like, you're just exposing them to the options earlier.
Patt-McDaniel: We're exposing middle school kids to the options, but what I mean is exposing those parents when their kids are, so if you know a few middle schoolers yourself, right, right? We need to expose you to those opportunities now. We need show you what those pathways are because your child is going to be going into junior high and then high school and choosing classes and needing to make decisions, as you know, even if your child's using to go to college.
They need to start thinking about that, where, 10th grade? 11Th grade is starting to get a little late, right? And so we need you to understand those so that you send signals to your child that whatever it is that they're interested in, you're going to support that. And if they tell you, I want to go into manufacturing, I want a design, you know, the industrial floor, whatever they tell they want to do that maybe doesn't require that four-year degree write-off. That you'll be supportive of it.
Juravich: Hmm, it's a good thing I'm hosting the show then, all right. So related to that, we had another audience question. Tom Capps Harsha. Tom asked, if the old message was go to college to get a job, what should the new message be?
Patt-McDaniel: Let me think. I think the new message is there are many pathways to a fulfilling life and a fulfilling career. And it may include a college degree, but it may not. You need to understand what all of those opportunities are before you make the decision.
I, you know, it seems like a simple message. It really does. But I just don't see another way, except for messaging, that people can't be what they don't see, right, we say that all the time in workforce. And so we have to, I think we have to show it to people, both parents and children. Because that's the only way they're gonna get that message, I think.
Juravich: Was it a mistake then that we spent so many years pushing the four-year college degree? Because I feel like that's what a lot of guidance counselors were trained to do.
Patt-McDaniel: I think if we go back in time, a college degree, all parents want their children to do better than they did. And I think that message got cut up in doing better than I did means that you're gonna go to a college degree, go get that college degree like I saw families who could afford college do.
And then you'll be able to rise into that rank. Do I think it's a mistake? No, because I went to a four-year college. My parents wanted me to get a college degree. Neither of my parents had one. But I think it wasn't a mistake, it was just overdone. It wasn't balanced.
There's knowledge of the hands, there's knowledge of the head, both of them are very important. We can't build this building just with college degree. You need construction skills and that does not always, that may require some training, absolutely. It might require a two year degree. But it doesn't need a four year degree and somebody who worked on this very building. Probably has made pretty good money and maybe more than someone who went across the street to Ohio State. So I think it's just letting people see all the opportunity.
Juravich: Yeah, all the buzz right now, all the media coverage is going to AI, automation, advanced manufacturing. I mean, that's what we're talking about all the time. But I recently interviewed the head of the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services, Matt Damschroeder. And he said that they have this website. It's the top jobs website. And he's said the most in-demand jobs in Ohio are home health care workers and truck drivers.
Patt-McDaniel: That's true.
Juravich: How do we get more people to do these jobs?
Patt-McDaniel: Wow, now that is a tricky question. And the reason why that's a tricky question is, number one, truck driving may eventually be overtaken by automation. And in some places, it actually can be now. Home health care workers are not gonna be ever, probably not taken over by automation, that is the human touch in healthcare and human care. You know, that's so important. What I will say also is, when you pose that particular question to me, you know, healthcare workers aren't paid well.
Juravich: Yeah, that was, you see, did you see my notes? That was my next question. So a home healthcare worker's median salary is $31,000. Right. Yeah.
Patt-McDaniel: And when I think about home healthcare workers, when I thing about child care workers, I think the business models in both of those, especially child care, right? You pay people more for child care. It's more expensive for the parent to pay.
The parent may not be able to pay, it's a very difficult business proposition right now. And in some ways so is home healthcare. And I think we have to... That's not actually a question we've been able to solve for that particular one. So it's funny that you're, it's not funny, but it's that you would bring that. It absolutely is one of the top jobs that are in demand.
What we can say is, and what we talk about is, well, it could be a stepping stone to healthcare pathways that are multitudinal. I mean, so if you get... An STNA, which is one of the first credentials many home health care workers may earn. And you could do that work while you continue on. It could be a good entry level. But it is hard to sell that because the wage is so low.
Juravich: I do hear a lot of talk from lawmakers at the State House about wanting to help with paying childcare workers more. There's legislation related to that. So does the state need to maybe infuse some money or incentives for paying home health aides more? Can the state help?
Patt-McDaniel: You know, a lot of that's tied up in federal programs like Medicaid and Medicare, and what nursing homes or home health care, people who need home health and are on those programs, how much they can afford to pay for it. So it's a pretty complicated system to figure out. But I do think that sure, there can be a role to play by government, even by state government. Because the state does have some say in how it operates Medicaid and Medicare.
Juravich: Yeah, so I mean, if the state is trying to say they made this whole website, top jobs, or in-demand jobs, whatever you want to call it, and they have at the top the home health care, they need to tell people, like that's where the jobs are.
Patt-McDaniel: Well, they also do put the wage, too, though.
Juravich: Yeah, they do and so well we can pivot to some the same top jobs list that on the state's website also had jobs like software Developer and operations manager on it. Those are in-demand jobs, too And they pay better Yeah, so how are how do we prioritize filling the jobs with the right people like how you know How do we just how do? We guide the the ones I have passion for helping You know the elderly to the home health aide and how do. We how do We guide to the software developers to where they need to go
Patt-McDaniel: Right. Well, I think what we do here locally in central Ohio is we give people an opportunity, again, to be exposed to what the options are. And not just what the option options are, but what kind of training do you have to have and what that training costs.
The top jobs is a state list. And really all the economies in the state are local. And so what might be a top job. Across the state may or may not be as in demand here. For example, here if you were to look at the top, actual top postings, you're going to see RNs, registered nurses. Those and software developers were the two top jobs almost the entire time I've had this job, which is going to be 10 years.
Juravich: Yes. Just to end on before we end this part of the show, in your work, you know, I said Aspire is a workforce innovation organization. What are you hearing from employers? What are they looking for that is lacking, that you're telling people like, this is what you need to study?
Patt-McDaniel: So with our younger emerging talent entering, the number one thing that they identify as essential skills, understanding kind of the five Cs, communication, collaboration, critical thinking, continuous learning. Those are the kinds of skills that employers want to make sure they see.
And actually in all of the people they hire. Many employers will say, if you just give me people who understand and are competent in those things, we'll get them the training, we'll help them get the skills. So I think a lot of employers, interestingly enough, are still trying to figure out what the world looks like with AI. And many of them aren't quite sure yet what that means for them. And so what we wanna say to people. Is you need to start thinking about using AI. It's a fluency, it's a language you need to learn because the tools are gonna be changing so fast.
Juravich: This is Inside Reshaping Work, and we are talking with Lisa Pat McDaniel, the CEO of Aspire. She's staying with us, and in a moment, we're going to discuss one of the fastest growing parts of the central Ohio economy, the immigrant workforce.
Speaker 5: You know, every day on Up First, NPR's Golden Globe-nominated morning news podcast, we bring you three essential stories. At the heart of each story are questions. What really happened? What really mattered? What happens next? At NPR, we stand for your right to be curious and to follow the facts. Follow Up First wherever you get your podcasts and start your day knowing what and why.
Juravich: This is WOSU Public Media's Inside Reshaping Work, where we're examining central Ohio's rapidly changing economy. Coming up, a deeper look at how AI and technology factor into the change. But first, let's look more at our changing workforce. Metro Columbus has the fastest growing economy in Ohio, and it's among the fastest growing economies in the Midwest.
A big reason for the growth are workers who were not born here, or even in this country. A recent study shows immigrants account for two thirds of central Ohio's growth. They fill open jobs in healthcare, logistics, construction, and other industries. But new immigration policies are affecting this workforce and the companies that rely on them.
Joining us is Nadia Caspen, the director of Us Together, a group that helps immigrants and refugees find jobs and get settled. Welcome to the show. Thanks for being here. So, Nadia, I mentioned that study that said that central Ohio's growth is because of our immigrant community. So, can you tell me why people are coming to Columbus? Why are they picking Columbus as their place to be? And what jobs are they looking for when they get here?
Nadia Kasvin: Well, people are coming to central Ohio, you know, for the same reason that anybody else would. So it's affordability, it's availability of jobs, education. For refugees and immigrants, it just additional layer of finding safety and to have a chance to start over.
Juravich: Okay, so that's why they're picking here. What kind of, when they get here, they want to work. What kind jobs are they looking for?
Kasvin: Immigrants do not come here as a single group, right? We see a wide range of education, skills, experience, background. And so, you know, some start with entry-level jobs, some enter professional jobs. So, we have people who are doctors. And engineers and entrepreneurs here. Very often people who actually enter at the entry level, they also have skills and education. We often talk about skill waste and brain waste because the challenge is the accreditation and licensing and language requirement.
Juravich: So, oh, skill waste and brain waste. Lisa, have you heard about that in your work? Those phrases?
Patt-McDaniel: I've heard that phrase and I see how it happens. We have people coming with these great skills and even though they could easily do the jobs that they have the skills for, there are regulatory barriers to that. Sometimes people's degrees aren't recognized and we are very much in favor of having that solved, because this is. People who really have these skills, and they're in demand, and we can easily get them into the job sometimes.
Juravich: And Nadia, Lisa and I were talking about the top jobs, the most in-demand jobs, and we talked about home health care workers being the most in- demand job. Are you finding placements? Do immigrants in this community take those jobs?
Kasvin: Some do, yeah, some do. And yeah, Lisa mentioned that it's a great entrance into the healthcare profession. Because we also have people who come here with the background of niches and doctors, and it's very difficult to get back into that profession. So starting as a home health aide gives you this opportunity.
Than to build your career, like with many other career paths. You know, motivation is not an issue for communities that we work with. It's understanding how systems work, understanding how the workplace works, and navigating that, and that's where our focus is. To help people build those career paths and help them navigate it.
Juravich: So, in your organization, Us Together, are people coming to you for advice on getting a job or maybe are you giving them advice on how to get those right certificates? Do they come to you and ask, I was a nurse, why can't I be a nurse now? And do you help them figure out how to do that? Maybe education?
Kasvin: Well, one of many programs that we have is the employment program. But unfortunately, you know... Many funding streams that fund employment services, they want almost immediate results, right? They want people to become self-sufficient as soon as possible.
But yes, we do try to help people to actually build their career pathways. So even if they take the entry-level job. Then they understand what are those next steps that they need to take.
Juravich: I mentioned a study in the introduction, and that study is from the American Immigration Council. And the research says that it's citing the crucial role that immigrants play in Ohio's economy. Immigrants in Ohio earned $27.3 billion in income and paid $7.3 in local, state, and federal taxes in 2023. So what do you say to people who think who think immigrants are a drain on the economy, whenever we have numbers like that in the billions. But the numbers show how much they contribute. So what do you say to people who hear the opposite despite those numbers? Well, educate yourself.
Kasvin: Well, obviously, immigrants and refugees and studies now support that, right? We've known it for a long time. Look in 2015, we published a study on impact of refugees in central Ohio and it also showed great impact that refugees have, economic impact.
And, you know, we are filling up the jobs. But we also have this consumer power. We're paying taxes and contributing to the economy. And it's great that there are studies out there now that actually support what we've known all along.
Juravich: Lisa, in your work, have you heard this, where people just don't understand how important the immigrant community is to the economy, like what jobs they're doing?
Patt-McDaniel: I think people know better than to say that to me, but, you know, what I can say to people is that it is, if we look at data and numbers, right, we know that even though central Ohio is growing, and other parts of the state may not be growing as much, and we have more and more jobs, and that's a blessing for central Ohio. We do not have enough people. And even if we have an aging population in Ohio, we know that, that is not a surprise.
People are having less children. And even, if we incent them to have more children, that's a 20 to 25 year, you know, return. But we have immigrants who can fill those jobs now and are, and if we lose that immigrant population in central Ohio, We will not have, we just do not have enough people for all the great jobs and great companies that are locating here, let alone those companies who are already here and have open.
Kasvin: All of those are right things to say. And so some people are saying we should welcome immigrants and refugees because it's the right thing to do. Other people say we should welcome refugees and immigrants because they fill up the jobs that nobody else can. I think this should be both. It should be one or the other. It is a right thing to do to welcome new neighbors in your community. And we do contribute. When we come here.
Juravich: That same study that I was talking about said Ohio's workforce shortage is putting a real strain on businesses and the report I mentioned talks about how crucial immigrants are to many industries in the state and in central Ohio. Is there any industry in particular you want to highlight that you would say that the industry would just not succeed without immigrants?
Kasvin: Well, immigrants are filling up all those like on-demand jobs, right, and in manufacturing, in logistics, and we have, you know, logistics is huge and central, right? Especially when we're talking about companies that have several shifts, they might have issues actually feeling, you know, night shifts. And some refugees and immigrants happily take those because then they can study during the day and work at night. I don't know when they sleep.
Juravich: That same report also highlights something that you just mentioned a few minutes ago that Ohio is under utilizing its immigrant talent Tell me more about that. We're not Is it because we're not allowing people to progress in their jobs? Or is it because were not using the skills that they have to their full potential?
Kasvin: Well, there are many factors, right? Well, first of all, I mentioned already that the systems are not very friendly to those who have education and experience abroad to kind of transfer that into the credentialing and licensing here. So a system of credential and licensing are very complex and not friendly to newcomers.
But it's also something that we always tell employers. Yes, we know that you're looking for talent out there. Well, first, look within. Because it just might happen that you already have that talent in your company. And maybe if you invest in developing that talent, in learning, supporting that talent that you'll already have people. With experience and education and credentials, maybe not supported by new credentials, but at least they have the skills and knowledge and you just need to invest in developing them.
Juravich: Do you hear from the parents about the future of their children? So immigrants who are here, who are thinking about their children, what are they wanting for their kids when they come here to central Ohio and they're living here, they're working here, and they have kids here? Do they want their kids to get the four-year degree? What kind of jobs are they hoping for for their kid?
Kasvin: Well, I cannot answer for every parent out there. I'm sure there are, you know, all kind of, some want their children to become doctors and lawyers and some want, like in Somali community, I actually noticed that there are a lot of people who go into nursing, right? Yes. Yes? Yes.
Speaker 7: Yes, we're less students, we feel classless. We feel class.
Kasvin: A lot of people go into nursing. So sometimes it depends on, you know, like on a community. But I'm sure it's very diverse. I think what's important to know is that, you know, kids, well, and their parents, right? When they come here.
But kids are very adaptable. They're bilingual, they're multilingual. They're very adaptability. And they have this motivation to succeed not just for themselves. But for their families as well. Kids and parents have another thing that they think is different.
And I think it really contributes to this country, to creativity and innovations that we have different experiences, different education, different backgrounds. And so when we look at the problem differently, and so we solve it differently, and that drives... Creativity and innovation. And so these kids, kids that are in school right now, they are the engine of future innovation because they will still have that.
Juravich: And before we run out of time, I do want to ask you what concerns you're hearing from the immigrant community about their future here in Ohio or in the United States in general. Just given the current political climate that we're in, are they worried about their life, their future life in the next couple of years and for their children right now?
Kasvin: Well, of course, these are uncertain times, and to thrive, you need to have stability and safety, and when you don't have that, it's very difficult and, you know, some decision making would be delayed, jobs opportunities wouldn't be taken, people wouldn't take an assignment. If it's in a certain area where they are concerned that they would be snatched or you know Asked questions about their status and I don't think it's just about people whether they're documented or not.
It's just the You know this overall uncertainty What's next? It's changing every day That's is very troubling, concerning, and it doesn't help with, you know, developing talent, keeping talent, and you know growing our economy here.
Juravich: This is Inside Reshaping Work from WOSU Public Media. We've been talking with Nadia Kasvin, Director of Us Together, a group that helps immigrants and refugees find jobs and get settled. Thank you so much for joining us, Nadia. Thank you.
And coming up, we're gonna take a deeper look at how AI and technology factor into the changing economy. This is WOSU Public Media's Inside Reshaping Work. As we have discussed, technology drives a lot of this change. Manufacturing continues to advance. More and more companies are turning to artificial intelligence to complete tasks and innovate. And as with any era in human history, technology disrupts. It costs old jobs. It creates new jobs.
Speaker 8: There is discussion. Just like any other technology, Boon, is AI gonna automate things and take people's jobs? Me and my peers look at it a little different. How is the automation gonna make our jobs more efficient so I can do other things that I can create and innovate in different ways?
Juravich: Automation does make work more efficient, but it also displaces workers. It's a double-edged sword. To dig deeper into how technology is shaping our economy, we welcome to the discussion Chris Berry, the CEO of OhioX, which promotes Ohio's tech industry. Welcome to the show, Chris. Thanks for having me. So I'm gonna start with the big question, right? Which is, is AI gonna take my job? Maybe not my job, but like for anyone. That's what everyone wants to know. Is AI gonna to take my jobs?
Chris Berry: Well, we're just diving right into it, I see. But, I mean, with technology, I mean 250 years ago when our country was founded, we are not doing the same jobs that we were doing then that we're doing today. I mean that's just part of advancement. And so, of course, jobs will change.
We're already seeing them change, really since the gen AI boom about four years ago, almost at this point. But if you talk with technologists, they've been utilizing artificial intelligence well before the rest of us were doing it on our phone. And so. It's not necessarily new new to a lot of people in technology. It's new to us as consumers. So things will change, but we're excited about opportunities and work can lead.
Juravich: You say four years, like it's such a long time ago, but that's the way. So Lisa, I'm gonna ask you the same question. Like is AI gonna take my job?
Patt-McDaniel: I think AI will replace tasks and jobs and make the job focus on hopefully higher level things that need to be handled. There may be some jobs that AI may completely replace, but with an opportunity for a person then to go to a higher level, higher paid job.
I actually am not afraid of AI. I use AI every day and I don't think it's gonna replace me. I hope not. But just like any, right. I mean, even if you look at what we were doing just 10 years ago, it's completely changed now. And I think new jobs will happen that we can't even think of right now that will replace. I am not worried about wholesale. People being without work because of AI.
Juravich: So Chris, I'm told all the time that AI is gonna take over the task that no one wants to do. It's gonna take it over the menial task. It's going to handle all the spreadsheets so that we have time to be more creative and think more, you know, big picture. So tell me more about that. So what is AI taking off our plate to give us more room on?
Berry: Well, just the other day I had an Amazon Prime delivery that I had to return for a reason and instead of having to call up customer service or email into customer service, print a slip, have them email it, PDF it, and all that, it was a quick chat bot where it asked me a couple questions, I answered really quickly, and it was done.
And that took less than 30 seconds for something that maybe even just a couple years ago you'd have to have a human actually doing it or a human alongside the AI chat in this case. But for this it was something incredibly simple and that's something that I just want done incredibly quickly and Does a human really want to spend all day kind of just processing real quick returns like that or can we open those?
Types of you know rolls up to maybe something as Lisa said a little more higher meaning that you know give Human something that they enjoy a bit more than just you know a customer service or a chat bot which is something that You know you can guess the outcomes right? It's like you just return the package You get a new package, they send a replacement. There's a few types of things, and it's just about speed. So I can go back to my day, Amazon can go off to sell something else to someone new.
Juravich: Well, and everyone, whenever everyone thinks of AI, they usually think in terms of a chatbot, you know, on their laptop or on their phone. That's what they think of when they think AI. But AI is being used to create better machines, better robots. Talk to me about how AI is improving manufacturing right now. I mean, what we don't see every day, because, you know every computer now has AI mode as a part of their search engine, and that's what everyone knows. But talk to me about the robots and the manufacturing.
Berry: Sure, so here in central Ohio there's a start-up called Path Robotics. And Path Robotic is AI robotic and it basically is welding because in America we have a shortage of hundreds of thousands of welders where we don't have enough people going into these great jobs because we just haven't built that pipeline up and people aren't choosing to go into welding as careers anymore.
And so a company like that, it's a startup, a couple of brothers out of Case Western Reserve University. They had a great technology. They decided to build it in Columbus. They employ a bunch of people, and they're literally taking something that historically only humans can do, and now they're having robots do it because of their artificial intelligence.
And so they're melding the hardware, which are these robots, with the software, which is the artificial intelligence, and doing something that is helping American companies re-industrialize. And so if we have 300,000 people that we don't have in welding careers anymore. You know, we have to make up for them somewhere. And so this is a central Ohio startup that is building out some really incredible solutions and serving some great customers that are helping rebuild the American fleet for our US Navy. They're doing real great work for some of the advanced manufacturing, the data centers we're seeing. And so it's really exciting. And that's a central, Ohio company.
Juravich: Lisa, I interviewed the CEO of Path Robotics that Chris was just talking about. And what was interesting to me is he told me that he doesn't expect his robots to take all the welding jobs. He said that they still need human welders too, because there's certain parts of the welding that the robot can't do yet. I mean, maybe he's working on it, right? But they need both. They need the robot welders and the human welder. I mean welding has come up so many times today. So tell me more about that, the idea that we need both the robots and the humans.
Patt-McDaniel: Well, you know, one of the things we're missing too is that you need humans who understand what it is they're creating to tell the robot, here's what I want you to do. Right. And without that knowledge, a human can't work alongside a robot unless the human also is the one who knows what's needed, what kind of welding, where do we want it, what are we creating here?
Juravich: We took questions from our audience before we began, and we got this question from Tom Caps Harsha. He asks, how should Ohio prepare workers for AI and automation without making the conversation feel like a threat to people who are already anxious about economic change? So how do we help people feel okay about this?
Berry: Yeah, well, I think it's really tough and I get from our education partners and we have a lot of them because you know If you're building this out for K through 12, that's literally 12 years of education and schooling If you've been looking at four-year degrees, that is another four But the rate of change and innovation that we're seeing currently again, you know The chat GPT release about four years ago, you now that was a real wake-up call for so many of us because we saw it We had it in our pocket. You could have it on your phone This amazing technology and it continues to get better and better and so we don't know what two weeks is going to look like We don't what two months is going look like little on two years or even further if you're talking with middle school kids And so I think the biggest and we talk with technology companies and leaders all the time you ask them You know, what do they need?
Well, of course they need the hard skills and we're generally pretty good at you know Doing hard skills in teaching those things but you know what they really look for are a lot of those soft skills, which I know can maybe kind of sound a little vague or what exactly, but they want people to be entrepreneurial. And even if you're at a bigger company, to take initiative, to own projects, follow through, be able to think even if maybe in your bigger company that you're like a startup and you're moving fast and you are trying things and you working well with your teammates.
And so, for all the hard skills and the fun about talking about AI and technology, as we talk with technology leaders and companies, it's really those soft skills that on top of the hard skill, that they're really focused on, because again, we just simply can't forecast what the next few years are going to look like.
Juravich: Well, Lisa, what would you say to someone who is anxious about all of this economic change that's going on? Because what Chris just said is, we don't know what two weeks is going to look like. And I'm like, oh, no.
Patt-McDaniel: Well, what I do think, though, is that people need to understand what AI actually is and how it works. Before Chat Pete GPT became the thing to use or Claude or any of those, you know, a few years back, everybody has a phone. Almost everybody has smartphone. And they're already using that technology now.
And I think it's really important is that, people actually understand how that phone work. And I think that kids coming up through school, I think they should, even if they're not gonna need to have coders, I think should learn to code and understand what coding does. It's a language that basically runs AI. So I think the more you understand about what AI, artificial intelligence is, the less fear you're gonna have of it. And frankly, we could turn everything off if we're really that frightened. I don't think we will.
Juravich: Oh, Chris, we were talking about coding. So how many humans do we need to help develop all of this AI technology? Like, where are we finding those? Are we learning it in school? Are they learning it on the fly or figuring out as they go along?
Berry: Yeah, well, a very good question. And with tech in general, it can really depend on what exactly you're talking about. Meaning, is this a conversation around who's actually developing these large language models at companies like OpenAI, or Google, or Meta? That's a very different conversation. Or are we talking about the adoption of AI at central Ohio small businesses? That's very different, too. And that's both fun and challenging when we have technology conversations about workforce is what exactly are we talking about?
Because that can range from startups, can range to IT professionals, everything in between. We have a saying that every company is a technology company, because whether you're using it in a restaurant, whether you use it in small business, manufacturing company, more and more of these technology tools and solutions are part of what you're doing. And so, if we think about it that way, also then every company is an AI company now because these things are being embedded.
I think long run, when it comes to AI, we're likely to focus less on that buzzword because as Lisa mentioned, it's just part of what we do. And so driving here, 15 years ago, you'd have to print out MapQuest as we were gonna record this. And you'd hope you didn't miss a turn and then you'd to double back and find that road and where exactly to take a left or a right. But now you plug it into Google Maps or an Apple Maps. And it reroutes you if there's traffic, if there is something going on, if there a street closure or a blockage.
You don't think twice about that. That's as natural as anything. And that's technology, that's some of these innovations that we've had more recently in the grand scheme of things. And so as it comes to AI, I think it's very similar to like that, that it just becomes ingrained into what we do. But in terms of the workforce needed, you do have to have people that are able to test it, adopt it, deploy it. And so there's gonna be the technology professionals that actually do kind of the implementation or the development of it. That's your IT teams, that's your technology teams within companies. But then the workforce at large has to be able to be consumers. And so that's something that we're all consumers already, whether it's on our phones, social media, using tools again, like a Google or an Apple Maps.
Juravich: I started this show by asking Lisa how we plan for the workers of tomorrow when we don't know exactly what tomorrow will look like. Part of the reason we dont know what tomorrow look like is because AI is changing so fast, right? So how would you say that we plan the workers tomorrow if we don t know exactly what we need?
Berry: I think there's some basic literacy. So growing up or previous generations, maybe you took a home economics class or a shop class or a personal finance class. I think things like technology classes and a basic literacy are incredibly important. We're part of a coalition to get better computer science education into schools. So at least it's something that students can tinker with. Know what it maybe does, what it doesn't do, how to do it correctly, how to be safe with it.
Because these are technologies that. Unless you have it within four physically confined walls of a computer, it can spread. And we know it happens when viruses happen on home computers or at work computers. And that's a headache no one likes. And so I think as we're considering of preparing this workforce, I think there's a basic literacy and we have to continually be learning, realize that this is becoming more and more and more of a thing.
Our economy is a technology economy. You look at the companies that are making 401ks go up and the stock market increase, allowing people to retire. That's largely driven by technology companies. And so if that's what our economy is, we have to have workers that know what technology is. And I think it's just that basic literacy that we start as early as possible is really important.
Juravich: Chris, I want to jump away from K-12 and go to the upskilling of maybe mid-career workers. So what do you say to those people who are mid-Career who maybe are hesitant to learn AI, or they're worried that they're not going to understand it and be able to keep up in their job?
Berry: Yeah, I mean, I think we all need to be testing the technology, playing with it. You know, I right now pay for four different AIs, 20 bucks a month each. So it adds up because I like comparing and contrasting, see what they're doing. And that goes back to the pace of adoption where one week, this one model might be the best for this one thing, but two weeks later it could be a different one. And so there's no, this isn't a two plus two equals four equation. Where there's a definite outcome.
We're living through this history right now. It's an AI revolution where these things just, they're literally getting created and invented as we speak. And so just having that curiosity, I'm a millennial, I'm kind of in the middle range of that. So I have some older millennial friends that are starting to be in their mid-40s. I mean, that's pretty far into your career. That's about 20 years.
And so I think our generation, millennials, we had email, we had cell phones. We had those types of things. So we've kind of been part of this technology. So I think also sometimes we don't necessarily give the workforce the credit of, we figure these things out. Like I remember, part of my high school career, you call your mom to pick you up in the van, from the landline in the gym, and there's a line of 20 kids. Two years later, everyone has a cell phone. And so there's these things that just kind of over time, they come to us as a society. We're living through one now, but. Is it really that different than, you know, 20, 25 years ago when, you know, perhaps emails were introduced to the workplace and what that meant, where at any point in the day you could be talking with someone via email and anywhere in the world, whereas before maybe had to send a letter or fax and so, you now, these disruptions happen and we're all just part of it.
Juravich: Well, that's about all we have time for, but I want to thank you both for joining me. And I know that we have not yet answered every question that comes to mind with this very complex topic, but hopefully we've got you thinking and provided some important information and pointed you to some resources to help you navigate this rapidly changing economy.
To dig deeper and see everything involved in this project, including education resources for teachers and students. Visit our website, www.osu.org slash inside. I want to thank our panel and our production crew, and I want thank our audience here at WOSU, and I thank you for watching. I'm Amy Juravich.