A new report from the American Immigration Council shows that immigrants play a crucial role in Ohio’s economy.
In 2023, immigrants earned $27.3 billion in income and paid $7.3 billion in local, state and federal taxes.
Immigrants help fill Ohio’s workplace shortages.
Hear from the City of Columbus about how they are connecting immigrants to in-demand jobs in central Ohio.
And learn about the key role H-2A Visa workers play in Ohio’s food system.
Guests:
- Micaela McConnell, policy manager on the State and Local Initiatives team, American Immigration Council
- Kym Douglas, director of the City of Columbus' Department of Neighborhoods
- Anisa Kline, human geographer and researcher with expertise in immigration, guest worker programs and farmworker health
Transcript
This transcript is generated with AI. To ensure its accuracy, review the audio file.
Amy Juravich: Welcome to Untangled, from All Sides in WOSU public media. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. Across the country and here in central Ohio, work is changing fast, creating new opportunities and real questions for workers, families, and employers navigating a complex moment.
This is Untangled. A show where we take a complicated topic and untangle it for you, explain it in a way that's easier to understand. And this season, we are tackling work. A new report from the American Immigration Council shows that immigrants play a crucial role in Ohio's economy.
They fill jobs in critical industries and are helping to address the state's worker shortage. They help stimulate the economy and they pay local, state, and federal taxes. Immigrants are also uniquely positioned to meet critical multilingual needs in the workforce.
Joining us now to discuss more details from this report, we have Micaela McConnell. Policy manager on the state and local initiatives team for the American Immigration Council. Welcome to the show, Michaela.
Micaela McConnell: Thank you so much for having me, Amy. I'm excited to be here.
Juravich: So let's start with the money. Your report found that in 2023, immigrants earned a total of $27 billion in income and they paid more than $7 billion in local, state, and federal taxes. So, what do those numbers mean about the immigrant power in Ohio's workforce?
McConnell: Yeah, thank you again so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here to talk today about this report. So just to set a little bit of context behind who immigrants are across the state of Ohio, immigrants are a relatively small share of Ohio's population, but as the numbers you read show, they definitely punch above their weight, especially in the workforce and the economy at a time when employees are in need of labor.
So Ohio is home to nearly 550,000 immigrants, which makes up about 4.7% of the state's population. And as you read, they are contributing to the local economy in great ways. They are also a working age population, which means that many are aged 16 to 64.
And in 2023, immigrants were nearly 30% more likely to be of working age than US born Ohioans. And about three quarters of immigrants are already active in the labor force. So. All of this is particularly important, especially as thinking about Ohio's population as they continue to age and key sectors that immigrants are already filling and are continuing to be poised to fill.
Juravich: So there's always that narrative out there that immigrants are a drain on society and they don't pay taxes. But I guess you would say that these numbers that you found in your report don't support that narrative.
McConnell: Right, absolutely. So I think this report really captures the growing demand across a variety of industries for workers, or as you could also say, across the skill spectrum and in jobs that, you know, are high demand of labor and then also in jobs, that really hone in on different skill sets.
And so, you know, this report was finding that especially as Ohio's workforce is aging, which is a trend we're seeing not just in Ohio, but in other states and across the U.S., That. More workers will be leaving the workforce, and these workforce shortages could really persist and worsen.
And so immigrants are poised to help fill these gaps in ways that are complimentary to US-born workers. And I think the other piece that this report captures is also, as you mentioned, the large contributions that immigrants are already making to the tax base, that they are already investing as they're planting roots in the states, as homeowners, as renters, as well as consumers.
And as business owners, as entrepreneurs. And so, a lot of the social networks, a lot the economy that immigrants are paying into, even as a variety of their statuses, they may actually never reap benefits from some of those social networks social programs that their tax contributions are supporting. And so I think that this report and the data really shows that immigrants are really vital to the wellbeing of the state of Ohio and nationwide.
Juravich: The numbers, yeah, they also don't include immigrants or shopping in local communities. They're buying groceries, they're buying gas, they are buying houses. Talk about a little bit about the economic stimulation there. I mean, you said they're a small part of the population, but they're, what did you call it, punching above their weight class or something? Yeah.
McConnell: Yeah, definitely. Punching above their weight. You know, I think in addition to the economic contributions that immigrants have, like you mentioned, when going to a local restaurant, when buying at a local supermarket, you know, the economic contributions, the economic stimulation that immigrants hold as they are earning in the state, as they are spending in the State, you now, and I think the other side of this as well, In addition to the economic contributions of immigrants are.
Again, the workforce contributions of immigrants. And so in addition to seeing overall demand for jobs and across the state of Ohio growing, we're also seeing a need for bilingual and multilingual skills as a growing need. And immigrants are really poised to help fill these roles.
And so the data found that from 2019 to 2024, job postings in Ohio that required, or we're looking for those multilingual schools. Um, increased by, um, 39.2% and so in addition to, to stimulating the economy, immigrants are also really uniquely positioned to meet demand across the skill spectrum, you know, helping fill jobs in, in the healthcare sector and social services and, and customer facing roles.
Um, and so I think we, we really see that Ohio as Ohio's communities and customer base are diversifying as businesses. Are continuing to need workers who can communicate across languages, across cultures, that immigrants are already bringing those skills.
Juravich: Yeah, tell me more about your report found that immigrants are helping fill Ohio's workplace shortages. I mean, tell more about that. You just mentioned health care being a sector. Are there other places where immigrants are filling in for a workplace shortage?
McConnell: Yeah, absolutely. So I mentioned health care, thinking about if a patient were to arrive at the ER, they're in need of urgent care, but they're speaking a language other than English. Having workers on site who can communicate with the patient can help ensure that accurate and quality and timely care.
In other spaces outside of health care the report found that immigrants are helping fill the education sector. So really helping fill in as teachers. Um, in social services, um, a lot of customer facing roles as well.
You know, if, if a customer comes in and, you know, needs, um or has some questions that are, you, know, in a language other than English, um immigrants are often already poised to help connect with, um with those other, um customers or clients that are coming in and so, you now healthcare is a big sector. Manufacturing is another space where immigrants are playing a role in STEM jobs, education, behavioral health, you know, kind of, you name it, they're likely immigrants there.
Juravich: Well, and you kind of alluded to this, but the report also mentions that Ohio is underutilizing immigrant talent. Many immigrants with specialized training are unable to work in their fields because of licensing issues in the United States. So just as an example, if someone worked as a nurse or a doctor in their birth country, they can't work in Ohio in that same job without a lot of schooling. Is that what you're referring to whenever the report says underutilising immigrant talent?
McConnell: Yes, absolutely. And so like you were mentioning, you know, in the state of Ohio, just like any other state, there are requirements for credentials, professional licenses to be issued in certain jobs. Like you said, like if you're a doctor, you would need that state license.
And so the data found that in 2023, about 43% of immigrants who had a college degree, who had that college education. Were actually working in jobs that did not require a degree. And so as you mentioned, and some of those barriers are like professional relicensing.
It can be costly to apply, to pay for the exam processes, to pay the process in itself timely. Also, maybe barriers with language, differences in credential recognition. And so there's a lot of barriers that can make it.
More difficult for someone who already has those skills, who already has that education to be able to plug into a similar or equivalent job. And so, no, this isn't just an immigration issue. This can be an economic inefficiency for the state when leaving talent on the table at the exact moment when Ohio is in need of more workers and is looking to fill those those different roles.
Juravich: This is Untangled from All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. And this show is a part of WOSU Public Media's project Inside Reshaping Work. We're talking about the immigrant role in Ohio's workforce with Michaela McConnell, policy manager on state and local initiatives team for the American Immigration Council.
So the report that you prepared was in collaboration with a group that's called the Ohio Business for Immigration Solutions. Ohio Businesses for Immigration Solutions, which is a coalition. It's more than 100 businesses, trade associations, chambers of commerce, other groups.
They say their goal is to modernize the immigration system. So why is it important to Ohio's economy? Like why is fixing the immigration system tied to Ohio economy?
McConnell: Yeah, and so I think, as you mentioned, we were really thrilled to be able to prepare this report in partnership with our friends in OBIS. And so the membership, a lot of the businesses, the Chambers of Commerce, the trade associations that make up this coalition, span all kinds of different industries from manufacturing to healthcare to hospitality, you know, kind of you name it, and they represent all the different regions of the state.
And So, you know, I think that this report also signals the business communities. Buy-in to better understand the landscape of the state, where immigrant talent lies, and then also to better understand how to invest in their businesses.
Having this information can help when thinking about not just statewide policies, but also honing into the local side of things. What programs can help strengthen both job creation as well as supporting existing employers?
You know thinking about programs that can support or invest in language access or professional leadership development, civic integration that can help strengthen immigrants ability to move into roles that can help strengthen these businesses that these members are running, the institutions, the workplaces and overall strengthen the community.
Juravich: And your report included a list of the top five countries of origin for immigrants living in Ohio in 2023. And I think that list might surprise some people. The top country is India. So it's India, Mexico, China, Philippines, Ukraine.
And Ukraine might be on there because of 2023 and what was happening in Ukraine then. But what do you make of that list? I mean, is it just me that would be surprised that India and China are on that list.
McConnell: Yeah, that's a really great question. I think this data can also kind of help, like you mentioned, just get a better understanding of who your immigrant neighbors are. And so in some ways, when you're in your communities, that's definitely very obvious.
It's very clear who your immigrant neighbors and friends are. But I think also on the other piece, this could be, as you mentioned surprising. And so this is just another opportunity, hopefully, need to.
Help better understand you know what kind of maybe languages are most helpful when thinking about workforce programs you know if for example some communities some states have developed programs that help with language access integration that is focused on the language or the like words or common phrases that you would use in that industry and that really definitely varies you know words that you're using in in a hospital setting you're the terminology in the ag sector.
And so I think that, you, understanding kind of the countries of origin that really comprise the immigrant population in Ohio can better help when thinking about programs and policy development to best support residents that are already here from those communities and then also any potential newcomers in the future.
Juravich: Another statistic that stood out to me was, immigrant workers make up a significant share of healthcare workers, which you mentioned earlier, but 22% of doctors are immigrants, which was a higher number than I expected.
So 22% percent of doctors and 16% of personal care aides. And that kind of, that part, you know, made sense to me because I found out recently that the most in-demand job in Ohio right now are home healthcare workers. So are you seeing immigrants particularly filling that gap?
McConnell: Yeah, absolutely. In the state, you know, immigrants are definitely poised to fill those gaps in Ohio, and particularly kind of in a variety of different ways, you know, in the health care facility, other supporting roles as well, you know, from hospitality or from different like services, like janitorial services.
I think immigrants are definitely shaping all of those industries across the spectrum, both as home health AIDS, as healthcare workers, like you said, physicians. So we're really seeing that immigrants are already filling a lot of those roles, particularly, as you mentioned, physicians, as well as, you know, an opportunity to thinking about how to streamline and make workforce pathways and professional licensing pathways more streamlined.
Immigrants could continue to help fill those roles in ways that, in other ways in addition to the ways they already are today.
Juravich: We have been talking about the immigrant role in Ohio's workforce with Michaela McConnell, a policy manager on the state and local initiative team for the American Immigration Council. Thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate it.
McConnell: Thank you for having me.
Juravich: And coming up we're going to hear how the City of Columbus is welcoming new Americans and helping them find jobs. That's when Untangled Reshaping Work continues from All Sides on 89.7 NPR News.
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Amy Juravich: You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich.
Untangled is a show where we take a complicated topic and untangle it for you. Explain it in a way that's easier to understand. This season, we're tackling work. Columbus is experiencing a population boom.
The city's expected to add a million new residents by 2050. But all of these new people will not come from other parts of the United States. Immigrants are the primary driver of growth in central Ohio.
In 2023 and 2024, the city saw the highest levels of international immigration that Columbus has ever seen. And these immigrants are working, filling Ohio's worker shortage and going to school to plan for the jobs of tomorrow.
Joining us to talk about new Americans in Columbus and connecting them with jobs, we have Kym Douglas, Director of the City of Columbus Department of Neighborhoods. Welcome to the show, Kim.
Kym Douglas: Thank you for having me, Amy.
Juravich: And I know that you do a lot of work in the city's neighborhoods, but you're here today to talk about the new American program. So I learned from your website that there are 155,000 people in Columbus who were born in other countries. What do you hear from them about what it's like being in Columbus? I mean, do they feel like it's home? Are they finding work?
Douglas: Yes, to both those questions. One, thank you for having me and being able to talk about such an important conversation today. And so that number has actually increased. We have about 180,000 foreign born residents here in Columbus, and we hear from them everyday regarding just everyday challenges of language barriers, the things that we'd expect to hear.
But we also hear about the families and the communities that they've created. Here within the city that do make them feel at home in a lot of places. My office is home to the New Americans program.
So we provide translation services. We hear from their needs, from everything, from our courses on employment that's needed, transportation needs, anything that you would hear from a resident, you also hear from our New American population.
Juravich: Do you know where most of those, you said 180,000 people, are they mostly from any particular country? I mean, we think here in central Ohio, we think maybe from Somalia. I was just talking about all of Ohio and the top countries were India and Mexico and China. So is it, I mean is it from everywhere?
Douglas: I think so and so because of the services that we provide are largely around language the way that we divide those languages We have a top five and amongst those are Spanish Somali French we have a large influx of Creole Haitian that have come into the community too And so if you look along the lines of the countries that speak those languages Those are the top languages spoken in the country, and I think the countries would I mean, in the city, I'm sorry, and so the countries will fall with those.
Juravich: Yeah. So back to that workforce piece. I mean, what kind of work does the new American program, your department, do to help make sure that these immigrants in Columbus are finding the jobs they need, the jobs are looking for? Talk to me about that connection.
Douglas: And so, as I mentioned, being home to the New Americans program, we provide access first and foremost to allowing them to become citizens that are aware of their surroundings and the resources that are available here in Columbus.
And so with that first access is making it home. Right. And then we talk about how they're able to engage in the community, whether it is through work or through volunteer opportunities. I would love to just bring attention to the fact that a number of our foreign born residents as stated by your previous guest come with multiple degrees.
Come with education and accomplishments that often time they need help with converting into proper credentials on this side. And so I think there's a conversation to be had there around how we under utilize those skills. But I think what we see mostly are entrepreneurs.
In that way, I know that, or we know that they are some of the highest business startup rates among our foreign born residents that they come in and because of the work ethic and the reliability and sustainability, stability that they're used to, they come in as entrepreneurs first and then they will seek, you know, jobs in some of traditional realms.
That are essential to what we do. We see often that they are. That they are often workers that we'll see in our hotels. That take care of what we call the essential needs of the community.
Juravich: Hospitality. So you mentioned the entrepreneur part though, because your website said that at least 330 businesses in the city are owned by people from different countries. Talk about the economic impact, like the impact to the local economy of having several hundred businesses that are run by immigrants.
Douglas: The impact is great. So in our last year, we had $2 billion in local taxes in the Columbus Metro area that were attributed to these foreign born residents, right? And so when we hear the narrative that is false around they come in and they only want to, they have their hand out.
That's not true. I think their entrepreneurial spirit allows them to give in a way that we know. The numbers show $2 billion with a B, that they're contributing right here into our Columbus metro area.
I think if you went into Springfield, where we have examples where there are even more businesses that have been started, that we'll see a statewide impact, not just here in Columbus, but that I don't think we can scoff at that contribution.
Juravich: Yeah, there's the narrative that immigrants are a drain on society and they are not contributing and they're not paying taxes. But the numbers don't show that. I mean, the numbers that I just mentioned, which were statewide numbers, you have local numbers. How do we get that message out that the narrative seems to be perpetuating is not true?
Douglas: You know that is something we work on every day in neighborhoods. Not only do we want to expose them to the resources that we have, but we also want to have our American born citizens to engage with them.
We just on Friday hosted one culture day at the Northwide WCA and it was an amazing event where we had on display. Not every culture that is here, but at least 15 to 20 cultures that we're able to present to us through dance.
Through singing, through music. And we had vendor booths that allowed people to get access to what those cultures actually bring and how beautiful they are and how they add to the tapestry of Columbus.
We are no longer a cow town. We have to think globally because our population dictates that we have now arrived in a place where we are being sought for best practices around how we engage and how we welcome. Our foreign-born residents. And I think that's something to take pride in. And I it will take more of that, not just educating them on the resources that are available, but also exposing others to the beauty and the tapestry that they bring and that they add to.
Juravich: Columbus. I wanted to back up to the languages that you mentioned, because you said that you translate things into five different languages, but I also I read that more than 100 languages are spoken in Columbus. So I know that a part of what your department does is connecting them with English classes, because that to help with employment as well. I'm sure there's a connection there. So talk to me about that idea of of translating things into their language so that they can understand and learn, but then also the need for the English classes.
Douglas: Think in order to survive in any country, you have to know the native tongue. Right, or you have to know their tongue because your native tongue may be something else. And so part of the responsibility that we take is making sure that they have access to those things.
Not only do we translate documents, but I want to give an example of a partnership with one of our, with our police department. Through our 911 call, there is an opportunity for you to be able to speak your foreign language because we know.
That in the case of an emergency, your brain is already on adrenaline and that you can't think about the words that are necessary. So too, for you and I to think, oh, I need to translate this now into name German.
So I'm already adrenaline pop, adrenaline high. Right, especially if you speak more than two languages. Exactly, to see, to have to do that process in an emergency state. Um, could be in some cases a matter of life or death.
And so part of it is learning how to, um, assimilate to what we, to the English language, but it is also providing them the opportunity to truly make it home. And in that instance, be able to. Translate not, not for them, but for us as the service providers. What is going on in that moment so that we're able to be readily available to help them in their time of need.
Juravich: So is there a computer program that 911 operators are using, or do they have translators on site, or? There is.
Douglas: There is a computer program. It is not in my office, but I do know that we helped in the translation services by our new American Leadership Academy, right?
We were able to bring in the scholars that had been through our program to help safety actually walk through what that language sounds like in the point of emergency and non-emergency, right, because not all calls are emergency. Some are just, I need help. That sounds like.
Juravich: See, that's a different show. You gave me an idea for a different show, but that's interesting. Yeah, yeah. Do I get to come back to NPR? Maybe, maybe.
This is Untangled from All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. And I'm your host, Amy Juravich. And this show is a part of the WOSU Public Media Project Inside Reshaping Work. And we are talking about the city's new American program with Kim Douglas, director of the City of Columbus Department of Neighborhoods.
I wanted you to take a moment to tell me about the new American Leadership Academy. I saw it said applications are closed, so I was just wondering, is there a lot of interest? What is it? Is there a wait list? Tell me about The Leadership Academy
Douglas: This is, I think, one of our best programs going. We have five program areas that I won't take the time to do an advertisement for, but our new American Leadership Academy is now in its... Nine? Nine edition.
Yeah, you got it. There you go. And every year we are overwhelmed with the talent that we get that apply to be a part of what we call... Creating an opportunity to give them the resources and how to access local government.
Local government across the world looks very different from tribes to councils And why would you have a council our council and definition is very different for mothers. And so we take them through a weekly process a 22 week process. I don't think that's correct.
We take them through this process that is designed to not only create community with the class. But designed to show them what local government looks like. We expose them to civic organizations.
We expose to leadership training. We bring in speakers that will help walk them through a service project that they will come up with together. That will not only serve our new American community, but will also help them to be a resource to the community around them.
It's an amazing time to go to the, one of my favorite ones is going to the opening ceremony and then the closing because you hear the education that they bring to the room. We have doctors, we have lawyers from other countries and we have members that speak up to eight or nine languages.
And so they are coming with heads and hearts full of promise and accomplishments. That I think is a lost opportunity for us to see how to really help them integrate.
Juravich: And I did want to say that you brought with you the person who runs the new American program. What's his name again? Abdi Sofi. Yes, and so he wanted the top five languages that are spoken is Spanish, Somali, French, Nepali, and Arabic. So that was-
Douglas: Wonderful, I knew that I was missing one.
Juravich: Yes, and then the leadership classes are eight months long and they meet two times a week.
Douglas: Perfect. Yes. OK, so. That is why he runs it. Yeah, I totally understand. Everyone needs the help.
Juravich: So talk to me about how having this leadership academy, working on getting access to classes to learn English better, to basically understand how city government works. Just understand how it works living in America as opposed to where they were from.
How does that translate into finding jobs, helping the economy. What are you seeing amongst people who come here who, you know, Like, eventually they're like, oh, I found my dream job here in Columbus. So quite honestly.
Douglas: We see that the labor shortages in a number of places are due to a lot of aging population. And often the foreign born residents that come over are in the prime of life.
And so they're able to, I guess, fill a gap that residents aren't able to fill by themselves. And so we have an aging population. We have a new American population that has come in and that has migrated. At a time in life where they are able to do multiple jobs.
Speaker 6: Even.
Douglas: And so we do find that they are doing the hospitality jobs. We do find in our new economy, Uber. Is also prime, and I don't want to just name one whatever the other tribe.
Juravich: Uber, yeah, DoorDash, yeah you got it, yeah.
Douglas: Yes, and all the things I want to be, um. There's all the places, all the drivers, yeah
But we also find that there are seasonal workers. As well, we don't have it as much here in Ohio, but there are opportunities for farming communities to have seasonal workers. And then there's construction.
Yes, construction is large. And then we have healthcare. We have a number of foreign born residents that come in with some type of medical training and while they're not able to work in hospitals, they are often able to in healthcare. Organizations where they're able to do day-to-day activities with residents.
Juravich: Unfortunately, we're only down to a minute left, but I wanted to give you a second to just talk about, you know, new Americans have worries about the current federal policies. Do you have people who are here legally who talk to you about they worry about being able to stay in Columbus? Like, what are they worried about?
Douglas: They're worried about the same thing that we're all worried about, about being not home when their children get off the bus. They're worry about not having time to show that they are properly here because we know that in the current state of affairs, it is counter to allowing them to thrive here in America.
And so their fears are the same as ours, that. They'll not be able to be home when their kid gets off the bus, that they won't be able to leave their home for fear of being picked up, that they wont be able to make the life that they came here to make and have done everything that was necessary, right?
Because we can only track them because they are paying bills. We can only them because they're paying taxes. We can track them because they do have banking accounts. So they've done all the things that we've required and yet they sit in fear.
Juravich: We've been talking about the city's new American program with Kim Douglas, Director of the City of Columbus Department of Neighborhoods. Thanks for your time today, Kim. And coming up, we're gonna talk about immigrant workers in more rural areas in Ohio and the type of work they're doing. That's when Untangled Reshaping Work from All Sides continues on 89.7 NPR News.
You're listening to All Sides. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. Untangled is a show where we take a complicated topic and untangle it for you. Explain it in a way that's easier to understand. This season, we are tackling work.
Have you ever stopped to ask yourself, how does this food get to my table? If it's fresh produced with packaging that says Ohio grown, then chances are the food arrived to your house thanks to agricultural guest workers, mainly from Mexico. Who are in Ohio with H-2A visas.
Little is known about these workers, but they are fundamental to the engine of America's food system. But more is known of these workers in Ohio than other states thanks to the work of our guest today. Anisa Kline is a human geographer and researcher with expertise in immigration, guest worker programs, and farm worker health. Welcome to Anisa.
Anisa Kline: Nice to be here.
Juravich: So you drove literally thousands of miles in Ohio, tracking down temporary farm workers for your PhD research. What led you down this path? Why did you want to know more about this unknown group?
Kline: Well, my interest in this started with a temporary job a few years before with Able, and one of the things, which is kind of a sister organization of Legal Aid, and, one of the things that they did was have outreach workers, so we would drive around to farms to check on the farm workers in those places.
So we would just go up to the farms and say, like, how are you guys doing? You know, kind of ask what they were getting paid to make sure that they were paid what they're supposed to, check the housing conditions, etc. And what I learned during that process, so we were checking out all farm workers, H2A workers and other farm workers.
But what I learn was that the rules surrounding the H2W workers are actually quite different than other farmworkers. And so even though they're doing the same work, legally they're both protected and exposed in different ways. And also during that summer, it became apparent that the farm worker population of Ohio was changing.
There used to be labor camps filled with families that were coming up from the South or coming up from Mexico. And instead it was more and more these camps were filled with just men who were on these H-2A visas. And so their needs and like their concerns were quite different.
And I was just really curious about who these people were and what their experiences were like. And they were in quite random places. I mean, that's the other thing. I grew up Ohio so I was like oh I like I know my state I was driving to places I had never even heard of, I mean, past the places I had never heard of down a gravel road into like, you know, a hollow or somewhere.
And I became just fascinated. There just was other layer to life in Ohio that we depend on for our food, but they're quite hidden. And we actually don't know very much about them. So when I decided to do my PhD in geography, I wanted to learn more more about who these people were.
Juravich: So agriculture is a $100 billion industry in Ohio, and it's currently experiencing an unprecedented labor shortage. Can you tell us about the gap that these workers fill, like basically why they're here?
Kline: Yeah, so farm labor is really like, so first of all I should say that the workers that, uh, H2O workers work only in horticulture, so they work with like fruits and vegetables, and also in greenhouses and nurseries. They don't really work mostly with, um, livestock or like things like grain because there's other, um visas and things for that.
So That kind of work is really hard and it's very labor intensive, right? You can only, you need a lot of people at a short, um, moment in time, like when the strawberries are ready, you've got to have everybody in the field doing what they're supposed to be doing and you don't quite know when that's going to happen, so you kind of need people on demand, but it's also really labor intensive.
It's hard. You're outside, you know, in the hot sun all day, you're working in peak season, you are working with chemicals and pesticides. It's just really difficult work, so most people don't want to do it. So finding people who you can come for just the, who will be available for just a month or whatever is quite hard. So this is one of the ways we've met that need.
Juravich: You have a TEDx talk about your research, and it's something that we have linked at our website, and I highly recommend that all of our listeners check it out. But in the TEDx Talk, you point out that these are people who are here legally and are essential to our agriculture industry, but you also want people to know that they are people with lives in America and lives back home in Mexico. What did the men tell you about why they come to Ohio to do this work?
Kline: They come because the wages are so much better. I mean, the economy in Mexico, especially rural Mexico is pretty, is really struggling and there's not a lot of options for people to support their families.
And a lot them come from what we call like campesino, like sort of farm worker or country background. So they have some of this requisite skills and this was a way for them. They're making more than 10 times what they would be making in Mexico.
Doing similar work sometimes. Some of the people that I met had like totally random jobs like they were taxi drivers or musicians or something but um back in Mexico but a lot of them come from country backgrounds and farm worker backgrounds so they're like well I can make more money doing it this way and you know it's you know only three months of the year it's only six months the year so I didn't have to work the whole so this seems like a better option for them.
And for some people, it is a better option. For others, there's quite a big sacrifice, and they get to decide whether or not it's worth it, but there is a big cost to them as well.
Juravich: And that cost to them is basically, you found in your research, it's time away from family. So they come here and they earn more money for their family, but they're very far away from them for months at a time.
Kline: Yeah, exactly. They're, they're, they miss their children's childhood. They're not there for, like, so many men. I mean, it was just hard for me to hear this part. Like, so many men talk about missing the births of their children.
And I just couldn't, like imagine, like being their partner and, like having to go through, you know, having a baby alone, especially if there's a medical complication.
And also because people tend to do this work for many years in a row, it's not just like, OK, well, I'm gone for six months. It's like. I spend more time in Ohio than I do back in Mexico with my family, which that adds up over the course of 20 years.
Juravich: Yeah, I also I thought it was interesting, though. You pointed out in your research that 77% of the workers you surveyed have worked at the same farm. I mean, they come back to the same firm over and over again. What does that tell you about the system, I guess?
Kline: That this is actually a really stable workforce, and even though the visas are temporary, the workforce isn't. And I think this is something to consider when thinking about labor, because oftentimes we feel like employers and workers are kind of on the opposite sides of an issue, which is often true.
But in this instant, their interests are aligned, right? Like as an employer, you don't want to have to find new workers every season or every year. You don't wanna have to buy new people, you have to train and teach and all that kind of stuff.
You want. Stable workforce and similarly the people coming up want that you know if it's a good job especially like they don't want to have to worry if they're going to be back next year they don't want to learn a new place and so what you have is actually even though the visas are temporary this is a very stable population that over time develops pretty significant relationships and connections to the places they're working in Ohio.
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. I'm your host, Amy Juravich. And this show is a part of the WOSU Public Media Project Inside Reshaping Work. We're talking with Anisa Kline.
And Dr. Kline holds a master's degree in Latin American studies, has a PhD in geography. Her work focuses on immigration, both to and from Latin America. Her research into the H2A program in Ohio produced one of the largest studies of guest worker populations in the country.
She is currently focused on community-led development efforts in Christchurch, New Zealand, where she works in local government there. But Anissa, I just mentioned, you live in New Zealand now, and your research that you did for your PhD was from a few years ago.
But I'm sure that you've been following the news when it comes to immigrant workers in America. So I just wanted to get your take. When you hear about ICE raids and the federal government wanting to change the way visa programs are run, I mean, what does that make you think of after all your time doing this research a few years ago?
Kline: Oh, man. I mean, it fills me with grief and rage. I it's not realistic. I guess that's the thing is that, like, we depend on immigrant populations, not just for our food system, but for other aspects of our lives as well.
And it just it's just not based in reality. I guess. That's the. Thing is that. Hey, praying on these populations ends up we end up hurting ourselves. And so it doesn't, it's not a solution to anything.
And it ends up creating a lot of fear and tragedy really for the communities involved. And that includes the host communities. So it's just like, oh, the poor immigrants who got rounded out, like that's terrible.
But it's also, now you have business owners who can't fill their positions. Now you have mixed status families whose families are torn apart. You know, in some places, whole economies have sprung up to support the immigrant populations and now all those secondary businesses are also losing their clientele.
So it ends up, the ripple effect is massive and I think that we haven't even begun to experience what it will actually feel like to have this level of fear and immigration enforcement.
Juravich: I will add that the way I discovered you and your research is because I was having a hard time tracking down someone who works with immigrant workers on farms in Ohio. The people I did find did not want to come on the radio.
They didn't want to talk about the people they represent because they were worried about their safety, their job security, ICE for those workers. Just a lot of things to worry about, I guess. So one of the people I didn't reach out to recommended you. So that's how we came to find you. End.
I'm sure it doesn't surprise you though, because that they were hesitant to talk on the radio because when you did your research, you talk to these people anonymously, right? I mean, this was a few years ago, but when did you realize that like names and specific locations were not gonna be a part of this project?
Kline: Oh, that was from the very beginning. I mean, that's sort of part of the research ethics. When you do studies in an academic context, you have to get it kind of approved from an ethical perspective. And some of that is just ticking boxes, but some of it is really important.
And part of it was understanding that the people I was talking to faced like they're a vulnerable population in a lot of ways. They could face a lot. Blowback from their employer, they could lose their jobs, and so I had to do it in a way that completely protected their identity.
So I never even knew the names of the people that I was talking to. Like I didn't, even when I introduced myself, it was kind of awkward because you want to sort of get to know people when you're talking to them, but I didn t want them to feel exposed at all, so I never asked their names. I just, I know their date of birth but um because you want it you want to
Juravich: You wanted to know their age just to see what ages they were working with.
Kline: But you know, next to it is just like, you know participant number one. I have no other identifying information.
Juravich: The American Immigration Council did a study and found that immigrants in Ohio earn $27.3 billion in income and paid $7.3 billion in local, state, and federal taxes in 2023.
Now, I know there's a difference between being an immigrant and being in America on a temporary visa, but I feel like a lot of the nuances are lost in news coverage on immigration. So, what can you add about the contributions, the workers that you interviewed?
The contributions they make to the economy in Ohio, as opposed, and then also, I guess, back at home in Mexico.
Kline: Yeah, I mean, so, well, first of all, just like, let's remember that we're completely dependent on them for our food and also our flowers and our pumpkins and our Christmas trees.
The Christmas trees that you go by are almost always grown and harvested by H2A workers. That was something that surprised me. So, you know, there's that economic and sort of survival contribution, but also in places, you up in the northern part of Ohio, where there's large there's large populations of H2A workers, they're shopping at the supermarkets, and we're talking like hundreds of people coming through in any given year.
Even if they're not renting houses themselves, the growers are providing housing, so there's housing contributions in that sense. They are also required to pay taxes. Not everybody does because our tax system is really complicated and they don't quite understand it, but they are also contributing taxable income to this date.
Juravich: Did you talk to any employers like the farm owners when you were doing your research or did you stick with just the workers?
Kline: No, I also, yes, but it wasn't at the same time. So before I even spoke with farm workers, I cold called basically H2A employers and to understand kind of what their experience was like and their concerns or challenges because it was important to me that my research was useful.
And so I didn't want to design something that was. Interesting academically, but not actually relevant to people's lives. So I talked to stakeholders like farmworker advocates, but I also talked to employers before I designed my studies so that I was asking questions that were kind of relevant to those groups.
Juravich: Yeah, you end your talk by saying that the men who do this work are guests in our country and we should show them some hospitality. So can you talk a little bit about that? You have some recommendations maybe for the farm owners or for the state of Ohio. So what would that look like to you in a perfect world with your recommendations?
Kline: Yeah, well, with the recommendations specifically, I mean, these were things that I chose because they're really achievable and it doesn't require legislation. It's something that a farm owner can do. So one is make sure they get English classes because these the men are here a lot, but they're isolated.
And so they're not just going to They're not going to just necessarily pick up English kind of like in their work. But it's such a great skill for them to have, like it's actually quite useful for them to have in general. And also if they're living here six months out of the year, like it just makes it easier for them to be here and it's something that you can do.
There's organizations that offer English classes to farm workers. So it's a farm owner can offer to his or her employees that kind of increases their quality of life. And it benefits the farm owners as well, because like, yes, we have Google Translate, but like It's just, it increases their ability to communicate with their workforce, so that's one thing.
Another thing is to help them get their driver's licenses. They're legally allowed to have them here in Ohio, but it's the process of getting it is pretty complicated. But supporting them through that, again, it just increases their freedom, their autonomy a little bit.
Like a lot of the men have relatives in maybe other parts of Ohio. So if they have a driver's license, then they can buy a car and they can go visit their families and kind of maintain some relationships.
And it decreases their vulnerability, right? Like if you can drive and if you speak English, then you are more likely to be able to connect to the resources you need, you know, be it immigration support or other kinds of challenges.
And then the last thing was letting them go home for a vacation. So not, you know, I mean, it doesn't have to be a paid vacation, but some men are here for nine months. Like they're here for long periods of time.
And so allowing them, you now, there's usually some period in there that's kind of like a lull in the work and allowing them to make a trip back to see their family during that time is like. It's like life-changing for them and the men that I spoke with who had those things offered by their employers.
So that's the important thing to remember is that all three of those recommendations, at least some employers in Ohio are doing, so it's completely possible. And the men that were allowed to go home, like their lives were just so much better and they were so much more like less stressed and kind of like their life were just easier. They were more connected to their other employees. It was just a better situation all around.
Juravich: We've been talking about a more invisible part of Ohio's workforce, those here on temporary agriculture visas, and we've been taking with Anissa Klein, a human geographer and researcher with expertise in immigration, guest worker programs, and farm worker health. Thank you so much for your time today.
Kline: Thank you very much.
Juravich: And this is Untangled Reshaping Work from All Sides in WOSU. Be sure to subscribe to the Untangled podcast so you don't miss an episode. And next time, we're going to talk about college versus trade school versus AI.
From Untangled and All Sides, I'm Amy Juravich.