A profanity-laden Truth Social post on Easter Sunday by President Trump has been one of the latest moves that has cries for invoking the 25thAmendment growing louder.
In addition, President Trump threated to annihilate the country of Iran’s entire civilization.
As has become one of his usual tactics, the president backed down last Tuesday giving credence to the acronym TACO meaning Trump always chickens out.
On this hour of All Sides, we're discussing national politics with "Political Junkie" podcast host Ken Rudin.
Guest:
- Ken Rudin, host of the "Political Junkie" podcast
Support WOSU 89.7 NPR News during our spring membership drive and you can receive a ticket to WOSU's Politics and a Pint event on June 25 as a thank you gift.
Transcript
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Amy Juravich: Welcome to All Sides with Amy Juravich. It's our spring membership drive. More about that in just a moment. A profanity-laden truth social post on Easter Sunday related to Iran by President Trump came as a shock to many. Since then, cries from the left and some moderates for invoking the 25th Amendment are growing louder.
In addition, President Trump has threatened to annihilate Iran's entire civilization. And over the weekend, he instituted a blockade in a key shipping channel, the Strait of Hormuz, saying that no ships will enter or leave until Iran agrees to Trump's demands. We're talking about national politics this hour with Ken Rudin, host of the "Political Junkie" podcast. Welcome back to All Sides Ken.
Ken Rudin: Good morning, Amy. I'm wondering why a profane-laden tweet by the president would cause anybody shock given the fact that nothing shocks anybody anymore.
Juravich: Well, I think because it was on Easter Sunday instead of sending an Easter Sunday message, maybe
Rudin: That could do it, that could do.
Juravich: Could that do it? Yeah. Well, as I just mentioned, President Trump's profanity laden post, his threats to Iran, it's caused concerns for some of his supporters. Our NATO allies are concerned. For the most part, are Trump's core supporters sticking with him on everything in Iran, do you think?
Rudin: You know something? I don't know. I mean, remember, his own vice president was against this war from the beginning, and JD Vance was in, I guess, he was in Pakistan trying to be part of the negotiations that fell apart over the weekend.
So I think there is some erosion. I mean of course there is the Marjorie Taylor Greene's of the world who have broken away in the past month, several months. But given what's going on with Iran, given the fact that there was a split over whether you'd to back Prime Minister Orbán in Hungary, given the fact that there are just so many things about the policies of President Trump that are starting to get a lot of Republicans nervous about the elections, there seems to be some—I don't know if erosion is the right word, but consternation is probably the better word.
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. This is our membership drive. We have two wonderful thank you gifts to tell you about this hour. The first is the WOSU Retro Railroad Tracks logo T-shirt. This brings back a fan favorite look from decades past in collaboration with Columbus-based Homage.
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On Thursday, June 25th, join us for a members only politics and pint at Seven Sun Brewing. You'll hear from a panel of journalists, including myself and Mike Thompson. We'll analyze current events, break down some key issues and have a lively conversation. Plus everyone who attends this event we'll take home a brand new pint glass.
The pint glass says, power to the public. On one side it has our station logo, and on the other side it says, power to to the the public, and your first drink is on us. So get a ticket to politics in a pint, get a pint glass, and one drink of your favorite beverage. Join us and support the station. Give right now at wosu.org.
You're listening to All Sides. Listeners across our community are stepping up to support public media. Choosing to give monthly is a great way to keep this service strong and reliable. When you join them as a sustainer, you'll become a part of what makes this all possible. So start your monthly gift today at wosu.org. Ken, as a student of political history that you are, has any U.S. President ever made such dire threats against another country as President Trump has made threats on Iran? I mean, I'm thinking back, you know, Roosevelt, Truman during the height of World War II. Is this, can we compare those two?
Rudin: No, I really think that Donald Trump is absolutely incomparable to any of the past presidents. And I think because if you watch the way he thinks, if you watched the way, he reacts. It is so mercurial and it's so impulsive that I don't think, you know, given what's at stake, given the fact that the world could be at war with some wrong move or something, there is so much that he's risking, that Donald Trump is risking, and yet he goes along with it.
He'll talk one day, one minute. About bombing Iran back to the Stone Age, and the next time he said, okay, let's negotiate. That's what he did in Venezuela. There was negotiations, and then suddenly they come in to take President Maduro and his wife and they bring them to the United States to stay in trial.
So there was so many things that that there are so many decisions that Donald Trump seems to make in one minute and then switch to the next that there's no way to predict what's going to happen, and certainly we've never seen anything like this in our history. And it continues every day, you know. You said, I don't know what's surprising anymore, but you just sit and watch and say, how long is this going to go on?
And you know, you talk about, well, some people are now talking about the 25th Amendment. Well, of course. The 25th Amendment means that you need a majority of the cabinet to come in and remove the president. Well, I mean, aside from the fact that Donald Trump is removing members of the Cabinet that he feels not so much disloyal, but ineffective, certainly the temperature for removing the president among his cabinet members doesn't seem to exist as of yet.
Juravich: Well, back to the World War II analogy for a second. I mean, what about, you know, what truly ended World War Two, the atomic bombs? I mean are there any parallels here with Iran when he says he's going to annihilate a civilization? I mean I have to hope we don't get that extreme, but my goodness.
Rudin: No, but it's also the language. He seems to have this joy, this zeal for talking about total annihilation and back to the Stone Age, and which, you know, we're going to destroy all their power sources and destroy their water supplies. Which so many people are saying this sounds like to them to be war crimes.
Now, of course, you know, there's not much things to compare in history with the dropping of two atomic bombs over Japan in 1945, but that wasn't done with relish. I mean, President Truman said, okay, okay, guys, you now, I'm gonna drop these bombs on you and let's see what happens. I mean this was World War II, which was going on for four years for the United States anyway.
And, you know, just terrible things were happening, and the decision to drop the bomb was not casual or cavalier. But there seems to be a certain relish that Donald Trump, you know when he's not watching WWE wrestling, he's talking about, you now, annihilating a country and wiping out a civilization.
And again, you whatever happened in World War II, and I'm not diminishing the horror of both sides of what happened there. There wasn't the zeal and the anxiousness and the excitement, almost like it was a sporting event to drop bombs and destroy civilizations the way we see now.
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Ken, the president, just a couple more questions related to Iran, the President gave a prime time address where he Explained a little more about why we're in Iran. He talked in more detail It was kind of one of those rallying behind the flag kind of speeches because he had the flags behind him But what do you think the American people think now? I mean we still have we have increasing cost of gas the president's declining poll numbers are still there Do you think that primetime address helped at all?
Rudin: No, I don't think I've made any change at all. And I'm not even sure to say I would describe it as explaining why we're in Iran. I don't think the justification is even out there. We don't know what the goals are. We don't know what he hopes the end result to be.
And of course, now, once upon a time, it was just total surrender by the Iranians. And then he says, OK, now we have to have a ceasefire. There's so many back and forth with his mood and his strategies that people are just basically dizzy about it.
And as far as the American public, what they do know is that gas prices have just zoomed up in the past, since February 28, when the invasion of Iran began, and there's no sign that it's going down any sooner. And if the president, as he said yesterday, is going to impose a blockade over Iran, and then the prices will definitely go up.
You know, it was very interesting the other day when the news came out about a ceasefire and then the Dow jumped up 1,300 points and said, my God, are people falling for these headlines just so this Dow is affected? And because today we're in the last couple of days anyway from last week.
When it didn't seem like there was going to be an agreement after all, then the Dow went down again. So I think Trump is acknowledging that the gas prices are going to continue to go up. And you know, if his reason for election in 2024 was that Joe Biden couldn't deal with the economy, that prices were getting out of control, I mean, nobody's talking about eggs anymore.
And people are just trying to say, you know, afford to drive anywhere, so. So I think that the news, the economic news, is not good as far as rising prices, things like that. And again, the election, you still have a bunch of months to go, but I think the election is coming quicker and quicker, and there's no good news in the interim.
It's not like we're heading towards some optimism before what's going to happen for the Republicans in November. And I think Trump, and especially his Republican allies in Congress, I know it better than anybody.
Juravich: Well, no one's talking about eggs anymore, Ken, because the egg prices have come down, right? That's a success.
Rudin: That's a success. That's great. Maybe I could just, you know, break a few yokes into my gas tank and see if I can, how far I can get. But you know people say-
Juravich: I wouldn't recommend that, no.
Rudin: There are a lot of things I won't recommend. You know what I would recommend? You talked about the pint. I think drinking heavily, I think is the answer. I think anybody who covers politics and studies politics and watches this president, and especially those of us who have watched previous presidents, I thinking drinking heavily may be the way to, for sanity. We are not
Juravich: We are not recommending drinking heavily. We're just recommending a politics in a pint event. No. Yes, yes, of course. Thanks to Amanda Zucker from Marion. Thanks for getting us started this hour. You can make this hour a great success when you join us for our politics and a pint even.
It returns on June 25th. It'll be a members only event at Seven Sun Brewing. And everyone who comes to politics in pint, this members only events, will get a power to the public pint glass. And your first pour will be on us. This is a good looking pint glass.
Show your public radio plot pride with this glass and it has our station logo on one side and says power to the public on the other side. This glass celebrates the power of public media. So check it out, start a sustaining gift and join us for politics in a pint at Seventh Sun Brewing in June.
I'll be there, Mike Thompson will be there. We'll have a couple of state house experts with us too and we'll take your questions. Learn more about the gift at wosu.org. Um, you, you mentioned the 25th amendment before.
Rudin: Political comment.
Juravich: Yeah, political commentators are talking about it, but especially because of starting everything with Iran without congressional approval. But you were saying, I guess I don't know how the 25th Amendment works, so the cabinet has to do it? Can you tell me a little more about that? Yeah.
Rudin: More about that. Yeah, basically led by the vice president. Now, some, you know, Machiavellian types are saying, well, that would be great for JD Vance to get rid of the president, and then he could take over. But no, basically, the 25th Amendment is instituted once the cabinet takes action that the president is not fit to serve. I need to go back to my house.
Juravich: I need to go back to my high school civics class and relearn a few things, I guess.
Rudin: Well, we never had a think of those things before. I mean, nobody talked about 25th Amendment until, really, until Trump's first term. And they're talking about it more. But look, the first things first, the election.
And you wonder about, I was thinking of the election in Hungary this weekend, which was so dramatic and so fascinating to watch, given the fact that this guy. Viktor Orban is such an autocrat and he was suppressing the rights of so many people and all these things, and yet he did allow the election to go on and he lost overwhelmingly, which is pretty remarkable.
It was supposed to be a close election four years ago and he won overwhelmingly, so you wonder, well, maybe there is fair elections in Hungary, and it would be nice to think that that's the case in the United States too. But clearly... With the Save America Act and so many different things that the Republicans are trying to do to suppress the vote and limit the vote, and limit who can vote. You just wonder if—I mean, this is just remarkable to even think of—but whether the elections in America would be as free and open as they were in Hungary on Sunday.
Juravich: Thank you to Julia Watson from Columbus. Thanks for your support today. You can join Julia and support public radio right now. You know the news cycle can be relentless and All Sides has been covering it all. From affordable housing to the latest bills moving through the state house.
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And you could say you're a member of WOSU. See a picture of it now and make a gift at wosu.org. And this is All Sides. This is our membership drive. We're talking about national politics this hour with Ken Rudin, host of the "Political Junkie" podcast.
Rudin: Amy, you mentioned earlier about this, you're planting things on May 5th and there's going to be a lot of dirt.
Juravich: We're having a drinks and dirt event. Yes, that's.
Rudin: Well, you realize on May 5th, that's the Ohio primary date. I know. I'm just wondering if you're having a lot of dirt on and politics on the same days, whether intentional or not.
Juravich: The dirt on primary day. Yes. Well, I I hope that everyone votes and then comes to politics in a pint Right because even in primaries, even though turnout is low. It is important to vote in the primary, right?
Rudin: Yeah, but unfortunately, I mean, we want, you know, for those of us old-timers who remember exciting primaries in Ohio, and here I go again, John Glenn versus Howard Metzenbaum or Bob, you, know, Bob Taft versus Jim Rhodes, you think of all the excitement of those primaries and really, 2026 in Ohio is basically, we know who the nominees are going to be for the, for the governorship and the Senate. So you kind of I kind of missed a knockdown drag out fights for the primaries, but But, you know, again...
Juravich: If you want to learn more. So I did a show just a couple of weeks ago with a political strategist here in Ohio. His name's Dale Butlin. He wrote a book. It's a brand new book. It's called "When Ohio Was Blue." And it's about his 20 year journey with John Glenn. He was John Glenn's Chief of Staff and he worked for the Mets and Balm campaign a lot. So if you want a reminisce, Ken, I highly recommend the book, "When Ohio was Blue."
Rudin: I reminisce all the time. I look to the past and say, God, those were the days, and these are not the days. But that's for another conversation.
Juravich: Well, since you brought up Ohio, we can talk about Ohio. "Newsweek" magazine is reporting that prediction markets, you know, our favorite form of gambling, just kidding. Yeah, prediction markets are showing that Ohio's governor's race is pretty tight.
And in some of the prediction markets it's tilting toward a democratic victory for Dr. Amy Acton over GOP candidate Vivek Ramaswamy. Depends on the poll you'll look at, or the bet you wanna make, I guess. What are you hearing about Ohio's governor's race right now.
Rudin: Well, not much, only because, again, we know who the candidates will be in the May 5 primary who's going to come out of it. So there's really not that much excitement as there has been in previous primaries, like in Texas and Illinois so far.
But the fact is that, you know, I look at a lot of the releases, the press releases and the statements by Ramaswamy. And he says a lot. He said, look, you know, we're trailing. We're really hurting. And of course, a lot of candidates like to say that so they can get more contributions and more enthusiasm.
But the fact is, is that if Donald Trump is a drag on the Republicans in Ohio, then maybe, you now, Acton does win. And maybe, Sherrod Brown does return to the Senate. But it is interesting that, you know, this, oh, look. The fact that Barack Obama won Ohio twice pretty convincingly, and then Donald Trump comes in and wins Ohio three times pretty convincing.
It shows the shock, to me anyway, of how Ohio has gone from blue to red so quickly. You know, it wasn't a long time thing. It was right after Obama and then Trump and boom, it turned into a red state. We'll see if that changes in November, but Donald Trump has a lot to do with it.
Juravich: The phrase, as Ohio goes, so goes the nation, it just, it seems like such a long time ago, but it's something people used to say all the time.
Rudin: It used to be a swing state, like even Iowa too. Iowa is also a very swing state and now it's so ruby red, which is just remarkable. But for better or worse, Donald Trump has changed the Republican Party in some ways that he's brought a lot of people into the political system who perhaps never would have voted before, the forgotten American.
We talked about Richard Nixon's and the forgotten Americans and things like that. But Donald Trump is really brought a lotta people who have never cared about politics before into the system, and he speaks for a lot of people who feel that they've been neglected. So it's a different Republican Party, certainly, than we've seen in the past.
But just like anybody, if the president is unpopular, if the policies are unpopular. If gas prices and inflation seem to rise. If we have an unwinnable war or a losing war, as we had in Vietnam that hurt President Johnson, as we have in Iraq that hurt president Bush, things can change in a jiffy.
Juravich: Those people you're talking about who came out to vote, who hadn't been voting before because President Trump inspired them to get involved in politics, will they come out for a 2026 election when Trump's name is not on the ballot?
Rudin: That's a great question. I mean, the perfect example, I mean again, going back into the past, is Ronald Reagan. I mean we know how popular Ronald Reagan was. He won a landslide election in 1980 over President Carter. In 1984, he carried 49 states over Walter Mondale, which is just remarkable.
But in 1982, the Republicans lost a lot of, it's like 23, 24 seats in the House. Because Reagan wasn't on the ballot, even though he was campaigning for a lot of Republicans. In 1986, after six years of Reagan, the Republicans lost the Senate completely.
And even though Ronald Reagan campaigned for Republicans around the country, his personal popularity wasn't transferable to the candidates. So we'll see what happens. And the question is, you know, Ronald Reagan was still popular in 1986. In 2026 is a. Is our Republican candidates going to want Donald Trump coming in campaigning for him, for them? That's a real question.
Juravich: Yeah, I guess we'll see if Trump is out and about in all the states in October or not, but I mean, it remains to be seen.
Rudin: That's one of the things that J.D. Vance was saying, and people, you know, J. D. Vence goes to Hungary and campaigns for Viktor Orbán and he loses. So Democrats are saying, great, have J. D. Vance come out and campaign for Republicans in the country. Let's see how that works out.
Juravich: Not quite the lucky charm there. Maybe not. Maybe not. This is All Sides. This is our membership drive and we're asking you to show your support today. A monthly gift to WOSU helps power local news, the programs you listen to and the conversations you rely on. It's steady support that makes a real difference every day.
Start your sustaining gift right now at wosu.org and make your support go further with a unique experience. Politics in a Pint is Thursday, June 25th. Sorry about that, this is a members only event at 7 Sun Brewing featuring a conversation with experts exploring stories and topics that are making news right now.
You will get a ticket to Politics in a Pint and your ticket includes a Power to the Public pint glass and your first pour. This is a good looking pint glass. Show your public radio plot pride with this glass that has our station logo on one side and says Power to The Public on the other side.
This glass celebrates the power of public media. Check it out and be sure to get your ticket to politics in a pint. Go to wosu.org. Ken, let's turn back to Ohio again for another Ohio race, the Senate. If the state tilts a little bit blue in the governor's race, do you think Sherrod Brown could also return to the Senate or does John Husted have an advantage since he's in the seat right now?
Rudin: Well, I don't know how much incumbency will be a plus in a year when there could be a lot of voter dissatisfaction. So that's the question as well. Also the fact that Chair Brown is 72, is he 74, actually I should know how old he is. But the fact is...
Juravich: Can someone search that up for me real quick?
Rudin: Well, I'm sure, I am sure Mark will post that in one second. But the fact is, is that, you know, he's been around since the early 1970s. He's been on a ballot almost every election since the 1970s and, you, know, when I think about John Huston, I've always felt is that well, here's, is it he's not.
Juravich: 73 you are you were close. So you said he's either he's neither 72 or 74. Well, he's 73 right there
Rudin: He's I think he just did that despite anyway, but the fact is that he said I think appeals to both wings of the Republican Party, the Bernie Moreno, a J.D. Bance wing, the very conservative wing and the Mike DeWine wing. So I think, he's probably the best Republican to run in a year like this.
He's not, but he has, I mean, if you listen to Houston, since he's been to the Senate, his so-called moderation, his so called establishment, Republicanism, has been, I think, thwarted by an overwhelming desire to be on Trump's good side.
So maybe if you, you know, just like in 1974 when a lot of Republicans stuck with Richard Nixon to their dismay and they went down to defeat, it's very possible that Republicans who stick with Trump will pay the price as well. But again, I I think if I was giving odds, I'd think the Democrats have a better Shout out to the Governor's Race. Than they do in the Senate, but again, this is just April and we have a long way to go.
Juravich: We do have a long way to go, and that primary that you mentioned is coming up on May 5th. This is All Sides.
Rudin: This is All Sides with the dirt with the dirt.
Juravich: With the dirt, yes, you can attend the drinks and dirt event, but we hope for this hour you attend our politics in a pint event, because this hour we're talking about national politics with Ken Rudin, host of the "Political Junkie" podcast. And I am losing my voice, Ken, I'm sorry.
Pam Bondi has been ousted as attorney general and sources claim President Trump was upset with her handling of the Epstein files. Ken, what do you make of women being the only members of the Trump administration who have been fired thus far?
Rudin: Isn't that something? I mean, you think of what Cash Mattel has done, what Bobby Kennedy has done. What Pete Hegs, oh my God, Pete Heg has done and the craziness that comes out of his mouth. And yet the two cabinet members who have gone are Kristi Noem, you know, former governor of South Dakota and Pam Bondi.
What's fascinating to me about Pam Bondy is that, I mean I can't hide my, uh, antipathy towards Pam Bondi, watching her, uh, in these combative congressional hearings where they'll ask her a question and say, well, you're a stupid idiot. Well, what about the time when you voted against this? Well, about this and that?
So, it just seemed so ugly. So, except the reasons I disliked Pam Bondy is not why Trump fired her. That's what's amazing. She wasn't Trump enough. I mean, you think, who is more loyal to Donald Trump and Pam Bondi, nobody. And yet, it wasn't enough because she didn't dismiss, she didn t put the Epstein story on the back pages.
And the fact that that all the things with the battles she had with members of Congress, it just wasn't what Trump said. Look, it's not working. It's not effective. And her numbers are really bad. So it's sad that she wasn't Trumpy enough or wasn't, you know, Trump always said you're going to get tired of winning.
She wasn't winning enough. And that's really what ended her career, or at least currently ended her current career, which is a remarkable career, which is remarkable because she did everything that Trump asked of her except You know, it wasn't in her power to wipe the Epstein story off the front page.
And neither did Melania Trump. Oh, yeah. I mean, what was that all about to say that I I didn't. I have nothing to do with the Giselle and and Jeffrey Epstein. And meanwhile, you know, there are things in the Epsteen finals that shows Melania sending sweet notes to Gisell Maxwell and love and my honey bunch and.
Juravich: Yeah, what was that all about? Melania Trump rarely speaks in public, but she made a speech about the Epstein victims. What, where did that come from? And it seemingly came out of nowhere, yeah.
Rudin: And Trump says, or at least the Trump people said they were blindsided by it, that, I mean, I don't know who to believe about anything about Epstein anymore, but it sounds like that this was not expected. And apparently there was somebody who knew stuff about Epsteen and Gisele Maxwell that was talking.
I think she had some kind of involvement in it. And she says, I know a lot more than people think. And when that woman posted that on, I forgot her name, the woman's name, but when she posted, I know more about Epstein than you know. I think her name was Amanda Ungaro.
And when she said, when she hosted that on social media, it seemed like Melania had to jump into action and say, oh no, no, this is not true. I, you know, they didn't, Epstein didn't introduce me and Donald. We met at a party, blah, blah blah. So they seem to be very defensive. And again. People say, are we going to ever learn the truth?
I don't know. I think a big start would be Democrats winning control of Congress in November, and I think they will. So we'll just see what happens. But right now, it seems like the administration is treading water when it comes to Epstein.
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Juravich: I wanted to ask you more about the cabinet. So Defense Secretary, or Secretary of War, whatever you prefer to call him, Pete Haegseth, he included a journalist on that group chat a few months, many months ago now. And then FBI Director Kash Patel has been under scrutiny. Why do you think they still have their jobs?
Rudin: I don't know. It's interesting, because when you think of the first iteration of the Trump presidency, he had no hesitation of getting rid of people quickly. Jeff Sessions, attorney general for one. I mean, there are a lot of members of his cabinet that he just threw overboard with no hesitation.
But the fact is that they were more establishment, more independent of Donald Trump than the cabinet is today. And this is really a cabinet true loyalists. So people will point out, it's interesting that the two cabinet members he got rid of were women, and there are a lot of people who say that's hardly a coincidence.
But I think, look, you know, I mean, unless there's going to be a wholesale unloading of the cabinet, which we saw with, I guess, Gerald Ford in 1974-75, there hasn't been a real, you you know, a loaning of cabinet in bad times. But again, Donald Trump has a very effective way, or at least he has a way, of throwing others under the bus, and if it'll help his presidency, he'll show no hesitation of getting rid of it.
But another name on the list is Tulsi Gabbard. It's interesting. She's the director of national intelligence, and she's been barred from meetings when when it comes to talk about war plans with Iran. Now the knock on Gabbard, before she was picked, is that she was thought by many Democrats and Democrats who said this, is she was a Russian asset.
She did a lot of things that the Kremlin seemed to really like. So of course, that's why Donald Trump picked her. But again, Tulsi Gabbards, the fact that she's been barred from many of these sensitive meetings. Makes me think that she may be next as well But I mean, you know to watch hexeth and the things he says and and just and his is is you know His how he sees relationships with the press, of course, Donald Trump agree probably grieves with him But I think Donald Trump is more effective With this kind of you know attacks on the press and then hex at this but Unless he's going to get rid of everybody, I still think there are going to be more heads to be chopped off and maybe it would be nice to see some male heads just to even out the ledger.
Juravich: Um, I wanted to pivot to the California governor's race. Um, us representative Eric Salwell suspended his campaign, uh, for California governor last night, he faces allegations of sexual assault and misconduct. Uh, Salwell, uh says the allegations from at least four women. He says they are false, but he announced on Sunday that he would take the fight outside his campaign. Um, what do you make of all of this, him stopping the campaign, um, these accusations? Like what, what's going on here, Ken?
Rudin: It reminds a lot of people, it reminds a lot of Democrats of Al Franken of Minnesota, who was, you know, a big proponent of women's rights and fighting for women who was caught, you know, doing something. I mean, I don't think what Al Franken was accused of even compares to what Swalwell is accused of, but Swalwall's initial reaction was, how come I'm leading in the polls for the governorship of California?
The election is, you know, the first primary is in June, and of course there's like 12 people running, and all the candidates, Democrats and Republicans, run on the same ballot, and the top two finishers move on to November. So with 10 Democrats and two Republicans, a lot of Democrats, were fearing that two Republicans could very well, you know, the Democrat voter be split and the two Republicans will go into the general election, even though they're so outnumbered in California.
So they said, gee, what a coincidence that Derek Swallow is being attacked right when he's leading in the polls and he's a front runner, perhaps front runner for governor. Having said that... And then the Democrats also say, well, you know, why isn't, why doesn't Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth, others who have been accused of, you know, and Bobby Kennedy, who've been accused with, you know, cheating on their wives, cheating on their spouses, and why, why do they stay in office and why do they prosper?
But that's not the issue. That's not what Democrats should stand for. Not that why, you know, Why should we pay the price when they don't pay the price. Democrats swore well, and that's the, that's crime of swole, if it's true. And the fact is that, you know, the fact that several women, more women seem to be coming forward or regarding Swalwell regarding either sexual harassment or sexual or even things as severe as rape.
And Swalwa says, I'm completely innocent of all these things, it's not true, but I want to apologize to my wife for things I've done. And then you say, well, what does that mean? And if all these things are not true ... Why are you apologizing to your wife? Does that mean you did have affairs with women, but they didn't amount to rape? I mean, conjecture makes no sense at this point.
But the point is, for somebody who led the polls because he was such an effective counterbalance to Donald Trump and Trump's lack of moral standing, and Eric Swalwell may have done same exact thing, you know, a similar thing when it comes to abusing women. It's a disgrace. And, you know, Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff and so many people who backed him immediately jumped off the Swalwell bandwagon and all the unions that endorsed him.
And you know he was probably the perfect candidate because Katie Porter was running, and not everybody likes her. She has a very tough temper, and a lot of people said she's too volatile to run for governor. And Tom Steyer is a billionaire who's also running. And people say, oh, enough with the billionaires already.
So Aeroswales seemed to be the guy that Democrats could rally around. And so it's a tragedy. It's a tragic for somebody who had so much going for him. But it's also a disgrace if it's true, and ending his campaign seems to be the only thing that makes sense. And now there's of course pressure on him to resign from Congress as well.
Juravich: This is All Sides. This is our membership drive. You're running out of time to take advantage of our thank you gifts this hour and show your support for shows like this one. Make a gift right now while Ken is on the air with us. We're hoping to hear from 10 more people before the hour ends and we have about 16 minutes remaining.
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I wanna say thank you to Denise Bauer from Johnstown. Denise wrote a comment, Ken. She says, love me some Ken Rudin.
Rudin: Well, she'll love this comment. You were talking about the t-shirt, right? The retro t-shirts that was from a logo of 50 years ago.
Juravich: The logo we used 50 years ago, yeah.
Rudin: And you say, oh, I think, oh my God, 50 years ago, that's such a long time ago, but 50 years ago was 1976 when Howard Metsuboum unseated Robert Tam in the Senate.
Juravich: Your favorite. Yeah, that was yesterday. Ah, I got it. Howard Metz and Mom was yesterday, I forgot. So so thanks to Denise for making a gift. So we have nine to go. And then we just heard from Edward Thomas from Canal Winchester. So now we have me too. Actually, yes, Edward wrote. I always appreciate when Ken Rudin is on the show. Oh, oh.
Rudin: But I think Denise had more affection, didn't Denise had a little more.
Juravich: Denise had a little more, Denise had more affection than Edward, so.
Rudin: Yeah, I thought so.
Juravich: So we're looking to hear from eight more people in the next 12 minutes and those eight people can make a Comment for Ken and see how much you can get him to swoon over you, right? 866-897-9678 or wosu.org We're looking here from eight. More people before the end of the hour You can join us for our politics in a pint event.
You can get the t-shirt But really support the station in whatever amount fits into your budget. We're Looking for participation It's a great way to say that you appreciate shows like this, shows that talk about politics, that you're appreciate having Ken Rudin on, that you are appreciate Mondays when we have the Reporter Roundtable.
So show your support in whatever amount works for you and be one of the eight people remaining to make this hour a great success. Give a wosu.org or call 866-897-9678. Just one last question, I wanted to back up to California for one more second because they have, so now that Swalwell is out, there's nine candidates in the race. And the top two, regardless of party affiliation, go on to the November ballot. Is that like a California thing? I, do a lot of states do that? I mean, we don't do that here in Ohio, but.
Rudin: A lot? No, no, no. California did, but that was part of Arnold Schwarzenegger's trying to get politics out of it. I mean, one Schwarzeneger was very strong about redistricting and he wanted fair redistricting. And so he was against what Gavin Newsom did in California.
What Gavin Newsome did in the California was in response to what Trump did in Texas and North Carolina and Missouri and other states like that by just fixing the, you thing changes. And so Gavin Newsom said, okay, we're going to do that in California, too. Schwarzenegger didn't like that. He likes, you know, so-called... Good government without redistricting and things like that. But there are other states that like that too. It's called the jungle primary.
Juravich: Wait, jungle? I heard jumble, but not jungle. Jungle, I'm sorry.
Rudin: Jungle, I'm sorry, jungle, jungle. Why is it called that? Well, I don't know, and it's not, I mean, I guess I could think of why they do it, but basically they all, it's just like, there are no rules, they all jump in together and they fight it out. But when Kamala Harris was elected to the Senate, she faced, in November, she faced another Democrat, Loretta Sanchez, because they were the top two.
Vote getters, and the Republicans were shut out of the opportunity of having a candidate in November. But that's what could happen if, you know, with all these ten Democrats, there were so many Democrats running, I think there were nine or ten Democrats and only two Republicans. If the Democrats split their vote, two Republicans could wind up on top.
And the Democrats will get shut out of the governorship. And of course, that hasn't happened. Well, it's never happened out of the governorship but it would be the first Republican governor since Schwarzenegger.
Juravich: Not necessarily about California, but the whole nation in general, what do you make of the fact that President Trump's polling numbers are going down and people are upset about the war in Iran? But at the same time, it's not like the Democrats are polling really high, right? It's not an inverse. So why isn't it boosting Democrat polling numbers?
Rudin: I read a lot about that, and they always say, well, the Democrats don't have a policy. They don't have a plan. I don't know if that's true. I don't think it's true, I remember right before the 2024 elections, no, the 2026 election, no, let's see, when was it, I guess, let me go back, 2025 elections, and a lot of analysts were saying, well, the Democrats are making a mistake by running only against Donald Trump.
They should come up with more policies, more forward-looking things, rather than we're anti-Trump. I said, I think I disagree. I think it's working. If Trump is unpopular, the Democratic strategy works. And it did work in 2025. Women were overwhelmingly elected governor in New Jersey and Virginia.
We just saw the other day that in the Marjorie Taylor Green congressional election in Georgia, even though the Republican won the seat, I mean, it was an overwhelming Republican district, The Republican vote was 25%... Less than it was in 2024. So there we are, there are signs that Democrats are gaining.
I don't know, I understand what you're saying about, you know, well, I think a lot of people look at Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries, the respected Democratic leaders in the Senate and the House, and they're saying, well you know they're not the leaders we want, but there are other Democratic leaders out there who are saying the right things I think for the party and we'll see what happens.
You know, it's interesting. I think maybe. In an earlier incarnation of the show, maybe a couple of years ago, when I was asked to say who's going to be the Democratic field in 2028, I think one of the things I was most positive about was that Gavin Newsom was not going to go anywhere, I said that quote, and I think the reason I felt that way is that he was too slick, too West Coast elite, you know, the middle of America, the Ohios, the Michigans, the Wisconsin wouldn't like a candidate like that.
But I think he's just effective. He stands up to what Trump is doing. He's driving the MAGA community crazy, and there are a lot of voices like that. Is, you know, is Andy Beshear. There's Chris Murphy in Connecticut. There are a lot of effective Democrats. And even Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who some people say, oh, she's so left wing.
But she makes stronger cases against the Democrats than Chuck Schumer. I mean, John Stewart mercilessly destroys him because he just. Because he stands there with his glasses on the bridge of his nose, and I'm saying, and you know, Schumer's the kind of guy who says, I'm so upset that I'm going to write a letter to the editor. Well, Democrats want more than writing letters to the editors. So I think there are a lot of good Democrats out there.
Juravich: All right, we have about six and a half minutes left in the show and we're still looking to hear from eight more people. Make this hour a great success. Make your gift right now and support 89.7 NPR News during this membership drive. Listeners across our community are stepping up to support WOSU, choosing to give monthly so the station can stay strong and reliable.
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And Ken, we are really running out of time, so maybe you can answer these quickly. The last time you were on, we ran out of a time before mentioning the passing of civil rights activist Jesse Jackson. He had launched unsuccessful bids for the Democratic nomination in 84 and 88. What do you think his political legacy will be? Whenever you heard he passed away, what was your immediate thought?
Rudin: Well, you know, basically, this was this was, you know, historic stuff. I mean, yes, Shirley Chisholm, the black congresswoman from Brooklyn ran for president in 1972. But Jackson seemed to launch a serious campaign for the presidency that that excited the African-American community in ways that we hadn't seen before.
And while, you know, he may not have been the ideal candidate for the Democrats, I think he opened up the party to more voters, just like Donald Trump did with Republicans, Jesse Jackson did as well. He was never going to win the nomination. There were a lot of things in his past that people didn't like.
But I kind of think that he led, I mean, maybe perhaps that Barack Obama wouldn't have been possible had it not been for Jesse Jackson. One thing I'll say, though, different is that Jackson really ran as a black candidate. I don't think Obama did. I think Obama happened to have been black and ran for president.
But I think he opened up politics. To a new demographic that we hadn't seen before. And again, anybody who gets more people to the polls is just, you know, a tremendous, tremendous story. Quick story, though. When I was working at ABC News, and I was, Peter Jennings had given me assignments to do something about the history of Black politics because of Jesse Jackson.
So I gave out assignments about the Black Panthers and Trilly Chisholm, and everybody was looking for stories. And when an intern came back to me and said... Ken, I got everything you wanted, but I couldn't find anything about Malcolm X.
Juravich: Oh dear.
Rudin: And I'm saying, uh-oh.
Juravich: Uh oh.
Rudin: This is not working well.
Juravich: This is All Sides on 89.7 NPR News. You are running out of time to make your gift. We just heard from Alan Jones of Columbus. Alan says that WOSU is like a dividend you get from your stock, only you get it every day. Thank you for that gift, Alan. And we're asking you to join us before this hour ends.
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Thank you, Brian. And we heard from Peggy Williams in Columbus. Thank you for your gifts of support today. We have been talking about national politics this hour with Ken Root and host of the "Political Junkie" podcast. Ken, thank you so much for joining us today.
Rudin: Thank you, Amy. The primary is in three weeks. Make sure everybody goes out and vote.
Juravich: Yes, vote in that primary. And that is on May 5th. And Peggy also left us a note that says, thanks for some excellent reporting. And she also loves me some Ken Rudin. So there you go, Ken.
Rudin: Well, you know, I have to fight between her and Denise. Denise and Pay, I know.
Juravich: Denise and hey, I know Denise and Peggy. Oh my goodness. This is listener support at WOSU FM and HD one Columbus We're online at wosu.org. This the last minute. This a great time to support public radio It is no secret that public radio has had some changes to the way we are funded But we are still here.
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