Politics and a Pint

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Mike Thompson: This podcast was produced Wednesday, July 1 at 11:45 am. Things may have changed by the time you hear this. Yeah, like we'll put partisan politics aside and have a nice Independence Day weekend, celebrating our country's 250th birthday. Seriously, let's do it. Let's talk politics. This is Snollygoster, WOSU Public Media's weekly look at Ohio politics and all those snollygosters, those shrewd politicians who either say our country has a perfect history or say it has been a disaster from the start.

I'm Mike Thompson coming up in the podcast, would you have your spouse paint your official portrait? Could be very nice. Could also be a little risky, but first. But first, WOSU hosted a politics in a pint event last week. These are a lot of fun. We get together at a Columbus area brew pub and talk politics in front of a crowd of political junkies and public media fans.

This time, we looked at the mood of the Ohio voter, the Ohio governor's race, the race for US Senate, property taxes, data centers. We covered a lot ground and drank some pretty good beer. Here it is. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to Seventh Son and welcome to the latest edition of WOSU Public Media's Politics and a Pint. We're so glad you are here. My name is Mike Thompson. I host WOSUTV's "Columbus on the Record" and also WOSU's political podcast, Snollygoster. Thanks very much for being here.

Well, with apologies to John Steinbeck. Welcome to our summer of discontent. Everybody is pissed off. Democrats are mad at Donald Trump, of course, but Democrats are also mad at Chuck Schumer. Donald Trump is mad at Republicans. Even some Republicans are mad Donald Trump. Of course, those are the Republicans who are not running for re-election or who have lost in their primary. Any Tom Tillis fans from North Carolina here anyway. So they're bad.

We're all mad about inflation, high gas prices, rising property taxes. What else data centers AI threatening our jobs and our kids jobs so lots to be mad about this summer But there is one group that is not mad this summer And that is the fans of the New York Knicks Wasn't that cool? Even for a Boston sports fan, that was fun to watch.

So may we follow their lead and have a joyous, united summer and also in the spirit of the New York Knicks and, let's not leave them out, those Scots soccer fans, those Dane soccer fans. Those Norwegian soccer fans they're all having a good time here and enjoying the United States and we should channel their enthusiasm and their joy as we navigate these, you know, difficult times. We are here to have fun tonight. We're gonna, we're gonna lighten up a bit. We gonna have a light conversation about some serious issues, but it's a casual conversation.

Let me introduce our panelist, Mark Ferenchik, long-time Columbus journalist, now WOSU Public Media's news director. Sarah Donaldson, if you watch "Columbus on the Record" or listen to All Sides, you hear her voice, you've seen her face on those two shows. She is a state house reporter with the Ohio Public Radio State House News Bureau. And Amy Juravich, the host of.

Amy Juravich: Thank you.

Mike Thompson: The widely popular host of All Sides with Amy Juravich on 89.7, it's 10 to noon in the mornings, and also wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe if you missed the show during the day. All right, let's get right into it. We'll start with sort of the mood of Ohio voters. Amy, a Fox News poll came out about three weeks ago, two or three weeks, that showed that, not surprisingly, said inflation and the economy far and away, the most important topic for Ohio, the most important issue for Ohio voters. Not a surprise, but you look at the stock market's doing well, and employment is down. The prices are what's driving the voter right now.

Amy Juravich: Yeah, I would basically say that it's what people are spending. That's what they care about. They care about when they go to the grocery store and it costs way more than it did five years ago. And I think that it's just everything seems more expensive. Even if it's not more expensive, doesn't it feel more expensive? I don't know. It's just, I think no one's really paying attention to the inflation number or no one understands exactly what the interest rate number is. I interviewed the... The chair of the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland, and she did a great job explaining it to me, how the inflation number works, but still, it's like, no, it's just how much my groceries cost, that's what matters.

And what's also matters to people is that I think wages haven't kept up, so everyone feels like they're not making enough to make it. And so, I mean, we've done shows about if anyone can achieve the American dream and how the American Dream is shifting, so. I think that's where a lot of Ohioans are. They're wondering what's the American dream.

Thompson: Also, every time you turn the corner, Sarah, you see those gas prices. They've come down a little bit since the peace agreement with Iran, but it's still around four bucks a gallon.

Sarah Donaldson: Yeah, they're high. I mean, they were there were complaints that they were high under Joe Biden, but they are also right now high under Donald Trump. Um, and it was of course, it's of course the summer too. So they're going to go up a little bit in anticipation of the fourth of July or labor day coming up, but there high right now and people are driving to places and of course prices for flights were high too. So it's what people are actually putting money. Taking money out of their pockets and using it on that they're feeling.

Thompson: It's a conspiracy, because we paid five bucks a gallon. So now, wow, four bucks a gal, that's pretty good. It's always the way it works with gas prices, until they get really low.

Donaldson: 398 on High Street. 398.9.

Thompson: Maybe some politician can solve that problem. Anyway, Mark, so who benefits? I mean, obviously it's a midterm election. The election after Donald Trump and the Republican Party won the presidency, always bad news for whatever party wins the presidency in that year. So you would assume that Democrats around the country in Ohio are in a better position.

Mark Ferenchik: Correct, so there was a Bowling Green poll that came out back in April. The professor who runs it basically said that Ohio may be purple this fall. Polls show both the U.S. Senate race and the governor's race being basically, even for the most part, all of the Fox News poll recently showed, again, that Sherrod Brown was up by eight points. Now, affordability is a big issue, and that's what the Democrats we're really going to be pushing and running on.

But again, there was an interesting article in the Atlantic recently, where the head of the Ohio Democratic Party was up in Cleveland doing an event, lots of Democratic activists there, and they were very passionate about, okay, affordability, that's fine, but what are you gonna get passionate about? What are you really gonna go strong on, that kind thing, and they're really pushing her about that, because... If you watch the national TV shows, affordability is always being discussed. We're talking about it here. But beyond that, how do you drive people to the polls? What beyond affordability is gonna make especially younger people go to polls? And I think that's gonna be a big issue going forward the next few months.

Thompson: Donald Trump won Ohio by 11 points two years ago. Is that a built-in? Do Republicans in this state, because of that, have an 11-point head start on whoever's running?

Donaldson: I don't think they have an 11-point start, but I am very skeptical of the polls that I've seen. They're a snapshot in time. And, of course, we are heading into a midterm election where the pendulum's likely going to swing back. But that being said, if you look at polls in the last couple of years in Ohio, Democrats have been faring well. They've been close.

And then Bernie Moreno has. Won, and JD Vance has won. Even though it looked like it was gonna be a close race, it ultimately wasn't all that close of a race when JD Vans ran. So I'm a little more skeptical, and these races are so tough because they're so different. The governor's race, you've got two candidates who are wholly untested on the ballot, and then Sherrod Brown and John Husted have both been running in Ohio for a long time. So, I mean, I don't know that that 11 point lead is built in. But this state is redder than it used to be.

Thompson: I always joke, everyone's lawn in Ohio looks good in May and June. You know what else looks good May and Jun? Democrats in Ohio. Let's check back in in November and see how that lawn and Democrats are doing. Go ahead. Well

Juravich: Well, but I will add, you know, speaking of the snapshot of the moment in time and Mark talking about whether or not Ohio can be purple again. If you think back, I mean, I interviewed Dale Butlin. He's a political strategist and he wrote a book called "When Ohio Was Blue." Right. So Ohio was blue for a moment in time and then Ohio was purple for a moment in. Now, Ohio is red for a moment in it seems like a long time because we're living it right now. But if you look back, Ohio was a blue state, Ohio was purple state, things change, people change, opinions change, so I think we're just in a moment in time.

Thompson: That Fox News poll for the first time, I think, had Donald Trump underwater in the approval rating here in Ohio. The key was more people disapproved. This is registered voters, not likely voters, but more people disapproved of his performance than approved for the time that I can recall since 2016. Right.

Ferenchik: So, and again, he's been in office now for a couple of years now in the second term. Things are not going well with the economy, and is there going to be enough drive on the Republican side this fall to get out to the ballot to vote based on how things are going, not only with the war in Iran, but prices, with any number of things, the you know, the pool in Washington, there are lots of negatives going on and I think a lot of I really do think a lot of Republicans may be tiring of it, but again, there's a lot of time between now and November. We'll see what happens.

Thompson: I thought about doing a drinking game every time somebody said reflecting pool, people have to take a drink. But it's like the story that won't go away, probably because the algae won't go away. But anyway, speaking of the pool and the celebration in the nation's capital, I was there a few weeks ago for a meeting and they were preparing for all the festivities. All these stages were set up. They were also preparing for the UFC fight, which has been dismantled. But anyway. How is that going to, how is that playing? I mean, it's the. Two and a half centennial. It's not the bicentennial, it's not the tricentennial which is a few years off. What are your thoughts on?

Donaldson: Well, I am young enough that this is my first big celebration of America's anniversary, but I will say, I think it's definitely under Donald Trump, it's become more of a partisan thing, right? I mean, and that's with everything. Everyone is in their blue or red camp. And with this, I think there was the hope with a lot of the organizing committees that this was something that was bipartisan.

And I think in Ohio, it stayed very bipartisan. But at the national level, I mean, there were these big concerts and anyone who signed up to do these concerts caught a lot a flack for it and dropped out. So I mean I definitely don't know that there are mass amounts of patriotism flowing this time around.

Juravich: I went, so I want there to be patriotism so badly. Like I want that for America's 250th birthday. I just, because I wasn't around for the 200th and I doubt I'll be around for the 300th unless I'm very lucky. So this is it, this is the party. But there's also, there is some patriotism out there. It's just coming in like different little corners.

I went to a watch party to watch the USA beat Australia. At Habaneros in Clintonville with a whole bunch of nine-year-old soccer players and I and just watching this group of little nine- year-old boys all chanting USA, USA with with so much passion I like almost started crying because I was like yes okay America's gonna be okay yes because we saw if we can win and finally make it to a knockout round everything's going to be fine, right?

Thompson: Well, Mark, Mark you were I was I was 10 for the bicentennial not I was, I was 14 so.

Ferenchik: So, how many people here remember the bicentennial well with the celebration?

Thompson: Tall ships and the train, remember the train that was traveling? Bicentennial Quarter.

Ferenchik: It was a it was a huge deal, right?

Thompson: Roses and milk at the time though. We were just after the Nixon resignation Ford was our president had not been elected at all We were coming off the Vietnam War well not too far removed from the civil rights movement I don't recall it again young age. I don't recall it being the partisan angst during that time?

Ferenchik: It definitely was not. And this has a lot to do with this time. And I also wonder, it's where you are, so I wonder about rural areas, smaller towns, what the patriotism level is there compared to bigger cities where it's definitely muted compared to what it used to be. Certainly, 50 years ago, there's no comparison at all. I blame.

Juravich: I blame the social media echo chamber. In 1976, there was no social media to tell you how to think and feel and show you videos of horrible things happening again and again and so.

Thompson: Yeah, no cable, no Fox News, no MBS, NBC. Things have changed. Let's look to the governor's race. This is basically a race, because Mike DeWine's term limited, he cannot run again. So it's an open seat. Two candidates who are pretty, I mean, people in this room are probably fairly familiar with them, but I don't think most Ohioans are. Vivek Ramaswamy, he ran for president briefly, but don't know political experience. Amy Acton, of course, was the health director. During COVID, but this was her first run, first political run at all. Mark, I mean, where do these candidates stand right now?

Ferenchik: Well, again, polls are early, shows them even. There's gonna be a lot of money thrown at this race the next four months. Can the Democrats make inroads in suburban areas, in rural areas? I always refer to, if you know Alec McGillis, he's a great reporter for ProPublica, spent a lot time in Ohio, and when the Republicans swept everything on the state houses, the state races in 2018.

He spent a lot of time in Dayton, and he still thinks that there are voters there, whether you're in Dayton or Springfield, Marion, Mansfield, Zanesville, those types of places, that the Democrats in some ways, I don't know if they've given up on, but there are other voters to be had there. And if you can connect with those voters, with Amy Acton, maybe you'll get, drive more people to the polls because they, they have felt left behind for many, many years. Seriously, is anybody here from those towns, anybody here grew up in a place like that here? So did you come to Columbus because there was opportunity here where there wasn't back home? Yeah. So it's those types of folks that both can, it's basically need to reach to.

Donaldson: Well, and I think, too, in addition to Mark's point, Democrats have a turnout problem in some of their base areas. Cleveland has had a turnout problems in recent years that is a really bad sign for Democrats. If they can't get the base out, they also can't flip those purple, maybe red, maybe went red the last couple of election voters.

So it's also about the Democratic infrastructure for Democrats, Republicans have a really strong. County by county party. I mean, each county has a Republican Party and they're working hard for the local candidates. And then Vivek Ramaswamy is traveling to all these counties and going to the Lincoln Day dinners. So for the Democrats, I know the Democratic Party has said this year, they're definitely focusing on building out that county infrastructure. But again, in the urban areas, they've had turnout issues as well in recent years.

Juravich: I do wonder about Ramaswamy and the Republican turnout, though, in more rural areas, because he's a different kind of candidate than they've ever had before. And he's an untested candidate in Ohio. Except for these polls, we don't really know what people think of him, except for the primary. So in the primary, I mean, we don't need to spend a lot of time talking about his opponent, Casey Putsch. But Casey Putsch said some outrageous things and he said a lot of things that made a lot of people mad and a lot of different kinds of people.

Thompson: You said some racist things, that's supposed to be good. You said racist things.

Juravich: Yes, he said racist things, but he still was able to get about 17, 18 percent of the vote overall, but in rural southern Ohio, he got 25 or 30 percent of the vote. Now, I don't think that those people who voted for him are going to come out all of a sudden and vote for Amy Acton. She's not their girl. You know, that's not what's going to happen. But will they stay home? If they don't, if they voted for Casey Putsch, and that is who they backed instead of Ramaswamy, then maybe they're just not going to vote. So maybe Republicans could have an issue with turnout in some of those counties.

Donaldson: And quite frankly, Republicans have a candidate that they anointed. The Republican Party decided that they were going to wade into the governor's primary more than a year ago at this point. Dave Yost was looking at a governor's run. Maybe Jim Trestle was going to run for governor. But that Republican Party endorsement, along with the endorsement by Donald Trump, really made the race for Vivek in the primary. Meant he didn't have a serious primary. So it's going to be interesting to see if that comes back to haunt the Republican Party.

Thompson: Well, he won because Donald Trump endorsed it. I mean, the Donald Trump just, the endorsement came, the party fell in line, Dave Yost, whatever support he had just evaporated.

Juravich: To get those rural votes in southern Ohio, I think Ramaswamy needs a very carefully timed endorsement from Donald Trump.

Thompson: Well, if you all watch TV, if if you watch "Jeopardy", you see the ads, because that's where they all are. They're in sports and they're on "Jeopardy". That's where all the political ads are. But there's a lot of ads by outside groups and some by Ramaswamy attacking Amy Acton for COVID. And I think those ads are not aimed at Democrats or independents. They're aimed at Republicans to say, I was upset by the COVID shutdown. Vivek Ramaswamy is on my side. So I may not be so sure about Vivek Ramaswamy, but if he's against Amy Acton and the shutdowns, I'm with him, so I'll turn out to vote.

Ferenchik: And that's gonna be interesting too to see again, that was six years ago, but it's still weighs on people's minds. But how much? How much is that gonna play a role in this election when there are all sorts of things going on right now, like affordability and a number of other issues right now.

Thompson: Affordability, it just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it? I'm gonna help with affordability. I mean, that's what Amy Acton is saying. She's talking about low income tax credits. Does that excite anybody? That's... Thank you. Now, Mamdani said, I'm gonna lower your rent or cap your rent. I'm going to give you a free busses. I'm to give a free daycare. He may not live up to those promises, but that's affordability in real terms. Is Amy Acton doing that?

Donaldson: Quite frankly, neither candidate, both candidates, are using the word affordability like we're doing up here loosely. It's this term that sounds really good. Neither candidate has presented a point-by-point plan to tell Ohioans how they're going to make Ohio more affordable.

Thompson: Now, Ramaswamy does have an ad. At first, he promised to do away with property taxes. And that blew back on him because that's $24 billion that fund police fire in schools. So we can't quite do that without major effects. And now he's going to roll back property taxes to what they were before the end of the pandemic, which is kind of a nebulous term. But there is one tiny bit of specific affordability there.

Donaldson: Sure. And he's had, I mean, of course, there's the big question of the income tax as well. Ramaswamy had that as a big part of his campaign. You know, the question is, who does that make Ohio more affordable for if the income taxes lowered or cut altogether? Because that tax revenue needs to be made up somewhere else. Maybe it's a sales tax or something. But you know, again, there are these loose plans, but it's there's not I think this this is my affordability point by point plan.

Juravich: And I also think that something like, I'm gonna fix property taxes or I'm going to get rid of the income tax, that doesn't register for people the same way where I'm to give you free daycare registers to people or to say, I'm go to increase the minimum wage so that you can't afford the groceries because I can't control how much your milk and eggs cost but I'm an increase minimum wage so that therefore all of the wages have to rise. Those are more tangible than taxes. Taxes are just not sexy.

Ferenchik: But property taxes may be top of mind because are you getting your evaluations in the mail?

Thompson: Of mine yesterday.

Ferenchik: So it may be an issue because again, people are gonna be talking about it, especially in a populous county like Franklin County. It's a big issue and you're thinking about it right now. It's like, holy cow, my bill just went up by this amount. So it maybe an issue to latch on.

Juravich: I know, but I still like my schools and my libraries and my zoos and my, you know, ADAMH boards to all have some money. I understand that, but I do still like all those things to have some money.

Thompson: Well, the issue is not on the ballot, which is that in the group that was organizing the abolish the property tax amendment, which was still out there, they fell. We think about, we guess, the last count they said they had about 300,000 signatures. They needed to collect at least 414 for the bare minimum, but because so many people don't write their names clearly, or they sign twice, or They have, you really need 800,000. So they came up quite a bit short, but they still got 400,000 signatures. That's not nothing. People are still mad, to the theme of the night, discontent about property taxes. But these candidates don't have to talk about it because the issue's not on the ballot.

Donaldson: Yeah, I don't think they're forced to answer it. And I think even to a point, because, you know, at the State House, lawmakers were kind of panicking. They had not done anything about property taxes. And then this ballot amendment starts looking like it might be a real thing, and they got to rush and pass some bills. So lawmakers did pass some pretty complicated property tax bills that I'm not gonna try and dilute in here. But it wasn't some overhaul of the property tax system and it did not provide boatloads of relief to Ohioans.

Thompson: What, what's the issue? What's the thing that causes either candidate to really break through? Now we have some time. We only have four months. I mean, what is going to be the thing that, I mean Amy Acton really hasn't started her really public campaign. She's doing a lot of work, grassroots work, fundraising, going to small gatherings, no debates yet. She hasn't been up on TV, on ads yet really. What's going to the issue that breaks through?

Donaldson: I'm not gonna say it's gonna be the issue, but I will say that I don't think any act in, nor do I think, now Ramaswamy has commented on data centers, but listen, people are really, really frustrated with data centers and tech development in their communities. Lawmakers at the State House, namely some Republican lawmakers, have pushed this off as it's Chinese propaganda.

That is some of the, opponents to data centers but there are a lot of angry rural voters who feel that these data centers are being built in their backyards there is a lot of privacy that is happening and people are mad on both sides and I've had lawmakers tell me at least locally they feel like data centers are the issue that they are campaigning on that they're concerned so I don't know that it quite rises to the state level but I will say Amy Acton as a in some ways that he is supportive of data centers, that he's supportive of bringing them to Ohio, and there's a lot of economic development benefits, which you've heard, but Acton has been very, very quiet on data centers.

Thompson: The unions like the data centers because it provides a lot of construction jobs to build them and then jobs to maintain them, electricians, plumbers, HVAC technicians to keep these centers running after they are built.

Donaldson: And that's it right there. I mean, the trade unions have been very supportive of these data centers, because they do. They produce a lot of construction jobs. So that's just created really odd fellows in an election year. You have very left-leaning environmentalists who are on the same side as very right-leading medical freedom folks, and they're all rallying against data centers. And then on the opposite side, you do have these establishment politicians who are maybe getting money from someone who benefits from a data center being built.

Juravich: I, you asked about the breakthrough moment for either candidate, and I, this is gonna, cause, you know, I have a degree in journalism and a degree of public policy, so of course I'm gonna say this. I wanna see them in a debate. I want them to debate more than once in a very public setting, and I wanna hear them talk to each other and at each other and explain themselves, because no one knows much about them besides these ads and things you see on social media, cause I follow them both on social medial. I want some good debates. I want to hear them have to talk when it's not scripted.

Thompson: Mark, if you haven't seen Ramaswamy, he's a force on the stump. Very polished, very slick. I think sometimes he can be too slick in the eyes of some folks. Amy Acton comes across as we all saw during COVID, much different style. Very empathetic, more soft spoken, more lower key. That would be an interesting contrast. I'm not sure how voters would see that.

Ferenchik: Yeah, by the way, just to jump on what we were talking about earlier, I agree that data centers are still going to be a major issue here because people are also worried about the cost of their electricity. But being an old guy living in Ohio for a long time, I still think jobs are a big issue. The unemployment rate is low. This is a big job creation area here in the Columbus area. But in Youngstown, Lima, other places like that, it's still about jobs. And what are you going to do to bring jobs to my area. Where we've been, you know, job poor for decades now. You know, the population drain and everything else. I mean, there's gonna be an interesting contrast in styles for sure. Amy Acton's from Youngstown. Is her Youngstown gonna come out at some point, right? Is there gonna be more challenging? Is she gonna be aggressive? Is she going to be, again, I would like to see a debate too, because there'll be an interesting contrast in style, but is she gonna really pressure him? And I'm looking forward to that, if it happens.

Thompson: There, we'll see. Candidates have been reluctant to debate, but I bet these two fresher-faced candidates almost have to. I mean, John Kasich famously didn't debate in his re-election campaign. Mike DeWine did debate Nan Whaley once in his reelection campaign, right? He certainly debated Cordray in his first bid, so we'll still see. The U.S. Senate race. Two familiar names, at least the political junkies, Sherrod Brown, who spent 40 years in Washington, D.C. Is trying to make a comeback after losing two years ago. He is running against a former lieutenant governor, U.S. Senate replacement for the vice president, John Husted. This is, these are known candidates, unlike the governor's race, but I don't think John Husted is as well known across the state as people in this room know him.

Donaldson: He's not. And I think, although I said earlier that I'm skeptical of polls, I will say that poll after poll has shown that John Husted's just, his name recognition is far lower than Sherrod Brown's. And he, you know, has defended himself saying, well, he's been on the ballot, but the last two elections he was on the ballad, it was under Governor Mike DeWine, who is a known quantity in Ohio. That man has been a politician for decades. In Ohio, so I don't think he's a known quantity and I definitely think that is a problem for him.

Thompson: He reminds me of Rob Portman. He served forever, but even when he had, like his last term, people did, 40% of Ohioans didn't know enough to make a decision about him. So I say John Husted has a Rob Portman problem. Sherrod Brown has a Sherrod brown problem. We all know him.

Juravich: He's been around. He's been around for way too long.

Thompson: So we saw in New York yesterday, now New York with 7% of the vote, a population there, voted for some pretty progressive folks, Democrats were fired up. Does Sherrod Brown fire up Ohio Democrats?

Juravich: Oh, someone out there said no. Yeah. Hey. You kind of want to be like, is this, you know, is this the best that we could come up with for running for this U.S. Senate race with someone who had been the senator for a really long time? He decided he ran and he didn't win. And so then he's like, I'm going to retire. And then they're like, oh, you're our only hope, right? So I don't, I think people know him and know of him. And if they know him, maybe they like him, but maybe they don't want him to be the senator anymore.

Donaldson: I wonder which Democrats he excites, you know? I think that there are swaths of the Democratic party that he absolutely excites. And some of those are Democrats who maybe haven't been voting Democrat in a lot of elections in recent years. Maybe they wouldn't even identify themselves as a Democrat anymore. And I think you have to look, although he was on the ballot and it would be an insane feat if he pulled it off. It is very rare for a Senate candidate to get beaten. And then make it back to the US Senate. Has it ever been done? I know there were stories about this, but what I will say is.

Thompson: I think maybe once.

Donaldson: Maybe once, but when Moreno and Brown faced off, Moreno trailed Trump. He did. I mean, that was a close race. It was like three points.

Thompson: Trump won by 11, Moreno won by 3.

Donaldson: By 11 points, so I mean, I don't think that's to be understated, especially in a year that is likely going to be more favorable for Democrats.

Juravich: So that means people went to the polls and voted for Donald Trump and then voted for Sherrod Brown. Or people. So it is possible you don't have to vote a straight ticket. Or people didn't vote.

Thompson: Or people didn't vote for Trump and didn't vote in the presidential race at all, and then voted for Sherrod Brown.

Ferenchik: Again, is he enough to excite especially younger voters to help drive them to the polls in this year? I mean, that's going to be interesting to see if that happens.

Thompson: Issue, you watch the ads. The ad that, we talked about how important the economy and prices and property taxes and data centers are. And the Sherrod Brown ad that's out there now that I've seen quite a bit is, he's against members of Congress doing stock trades. I was like, really? Apparently John Husted voted against the anti-stock trade bill, but you know, the poster person for stock trading while being a member of Congress This is Nancy Pelosi. It doesn't get mentioned in the Sherrod Brown ad.

Donaldson: That one's a bipartisan issue.

Thompson: It's, I guess, I don't know what's going on there. He's seen as a Washington insider. Maybe it's a way to say he's a Washington outsider now. I don't know.

Donaldson: Well, and I mean, last campaign cycle, Brown's team focused very, very heavily on abortion as an issue and that did not pan out to work for Brown's team. I mean obviously they were seizing on the wins that the folks on the left and those who supported that abortion rights amendment saw when issue one passed. But, you know, Browns campaign toward the final weeks was talking mostly about abortion rights in Ohio.

Thompson: Moreno's campaigns are in the outside groups. They had one issue, transgender issues. Sherrod Brown is for they them, I'm for you. Do we see, Amy, any issues like that popping up in this?

Juravich: See, that's interesting that you brought that up because in that interview that I mentioned that I did with Dale Butlin, long-time political strategist, wrote the book "When Ohio Was Blue." That's exactly what he brought up. He said the Democratic Party lost Ohio because they focused in on defending the transgender issue instead of remembering affordability and jobs and the other core issues that Democrats care about. And so he said that that's where they lost the race by letting Bernie Moreno take the lead on that and make that the pivotal issue when it impacts a small percentage of the population. So he said the Democrats should be leaning into affordability and the other issues and that is where they made a mistake.

Thompson: Yeah, they did flood the zone. Of course, there was, you know, the most expensive, this is going to be the most extensive race for Senate this coming year, beating two years ago, which was the most-expensive Senate race from four years ago. So the money in this race is, because control of the Senate really will hinge on Ohio and Maine and some other states.

Ferenchik: That's why there's gonna be a lot of national coverage to have these races here because of the importance of that too.

Thompson: Let's turn to state politics, Governor DeWine has 200 some odd days, give or take, left in office before he moves on. He has, in the past, just a couple of weeks, he has come out against the death penalty, he has voted, he has vetoed a Republican bill that would have required photo ID for mail-in ballots, and today he is blasting the conservative Supreme Court and the Trump administration for removing protected status for Haitian immigrants. Sarah Donaldson, Mike DeWine is going rogue.

Donaldson: It's... Okay, so as a State House reporter, I spend most of my days chasing down Mike DeWine. Like, if I don't see Mike De Wine, it's been a weird week. And this has been a strange lame-duck DeWine to cover because these last few weeks, he's come out and said things that were maybe kind of percolating, that again, if you're like me and you're hunting Mike DeWine's movements down, you expect them, but most people don't. This death penalty thing has been sometime coming, I will say.

I mean, Governor DeWine, as a state senator, he wrote the law that reinstated the death penalty in Ohio. But decades later, he's the story of changing his tune and he has been delaying executions in Ohio since he took office. That being said, it's been hard for Ohio, he says, to get the drugs to actually do the executions. But he has been also rabidly defensive of the Haitian folks who are living out in Springfield and also in Columbus. There is a large Haitian population in Columbus

Thompson: But does it matter?

Donaldson: No.

Thompson: He's got 200 days left. Why did he wait so long to take... He was re-elected with 65% of the vote. Why did you wait so to do mildly bold things?

Donaldson: So I think that there are a couple things at play here. Even though he was re-elected in 2022, and that's when you wanna think that a lame duck governor is just gonna go off the rails and do whatever they want, he still had budgets that he needed to get through the state legislature. And that is, I'm talking, Mike DeWine is couching what he wants to really say because he wants get funding for an eyeglass program. I mean, it's- It's down to those he has priorities and funding priorities that he wants to get through.

It's politics. So he is not gonna burn bridges in a way that he is at the point that his last budget has gone through, that if he makes Trump mad in these last six months, is Trump really gonna do something to, is he gonna really pull back a stump at Ohio that needs to win for Republicans? Because that's the other thing that DeWine has said. I mean, I think that there is this idea, and I don't know if DeWines come out and said it, that he doesn't want to make Trump mad and have it fall back on-

Thompson: Who cares? He's done in 200 days. Trump already doesn't like him.

Juravich: Does Ramaswamy need DeWine?

Thompson: And we already know he doesn't want to want

Juravich: Yeah, we already established he doesn't need Trump, or we'd established Ramaswamy needs Trump, but does he need DeWine?

Thompson: No, I mean, more people who voted for Mike DeWine are likely going to vote for Amy Acton than Vivek Ramaswamy.

Donaldson: I think there was some people wondering if DeWine was actually gonna come out and endorse Amy Acton. Of course, that did not happen. That would be going.

Thompson: That would be going rogue if that ain't going to happen. The TPS thing just came out. This is the temporary protective status. It's been in place for refugees who are from countries that are very unstable. So today it was Haitians and Syrians, Supreme Court ruled that basically the Trump administration, if they want to follow through, can remove that status. 30,000 of these folks live in Columbus Springfield area. They're all in jeopardy of first losing their work and then ultimately... Being deported.

Ferenchik: Yeah, correct. So it's a big ruling for sure. The question is, how aggressive now is the Trump administration gonna be in terms of deportation if people do not self-deport? Again, there's a long way to go at this, but that was the concern certainly in the winter when everything was going on in Minnesota. But again, very key part of our population anymore. They employ any number of employers in Springfield, have a number of Haitian employees. Certainly here in Columbus too, there's a big community here, and what's gonna happen now is in terms of, are people gonna leave on their own? Is ICE gonna come here? How aggressive is it gonna be?

Thompson: All of that. Can you imagine four months to go before the election, Amy, we see ICE crackdowns like we saw in Chicago and in Minnesota, here in Ohio. How does that play?

Juravich: It's all about optics for the Trump administration, so I would guess, if I was a guessing person, that nothing's gonna happen between now and the 4th of July, because he doesn't want anything to track against his America 250 and Freedom 250 events, right? If he sends but, then after that, if there's a negative story that comes out among anything from the Epstein files to whatever, if he wants to distract away from it, that would be the time when ICE agents would show up somewhere, right. So that's my prediction. But Sarah, that would...

Thompson: Public opinion went against, immigration was a winner for Trump, both in 2016 and in 24, when he won re-election, but he lost the issue because of what happened, especially in Minnesota with the two people who were killed. I really don't see, deportations are still happening, arrest and detentions are still happening, but we're not going to see the huge efforts that we saw between now and What should they?

Donaldson: Yeah, I mean, I think when this was a question a couple months ago that TPS status was potentially happening, you know, there was some reporting that suggested that ICE wasn't really planning on descending on Springfield then. You know, the folks at the federal level, whether Democrats or Republicans are investing in these races, still see Ohio as a red state that they want to win. And an ugly clash like that with ICE, like what in Minnesota is bad optics. At any point, whether it's before or after the 4th of July.

Thompson: You know, we talked a little bit about data centers. I think the issue, and I think you're starting to see it, in New York there was a congressional race, a primary, two Democrats, and tech companies spent 24 million dollars on these campaigns, so funding both candidates. 16 million dollars was spent by tech companies that support AI regulation. $8 million was spent by companies that want less regulation for AI. I think data centers, people don't want them in their backyard, they don't want them on farm fields, they want to pay the electric bill. But data centers are technology. And I think technology and the fear of our rapidly changing technology is going to become a huge issue in this campaign. Does it happen between now and November? I don't know, what do you think, Amy?

Juravich: Are you talking nationally or are you talking about the Ohio campaign?

Thompson: Both. Yeah, I mean, data centers are like the Mecca of data centers here.

Juravich: Yeah, when I think about the Ohio campaigns, I'm thinking back to what you said about how Ramaswamy has way more money than Amy Acton, and so you just mentioned a place to get a lot of money. So maybe if she doesn't come out against data centers, then suddenly she will end up with some tech money, and she'll be able to make more ads. I do think that the electricity component and the water component of the data centers is gonna be something that. Ohio lawmakers are going to have to address and they're going to have to deal with and they they I just I couldn't believe when I learned just like what was it this week or last week that before we even knew what a data center was and before anyone had ever spoken AI into being Governor Kasich gave away tax breaks for 40 years too and that that shocked me because I think I said on the air whenever the reporter said it to me I went 40 years like but when he did that We didn't talk about data centers. The data centers were around, but they weren't the same, and the AI wasn't the the same. And it's just so different now, and it's so interesting to think of the Kasich administration giving that away for 40 years.

Thompson: I mean, AI is, that's what it is. When Kasich made those deals, I don't think he anticipated two and a half billion dollars in tax breaks, Mark. But AI, I mean if you have kids in high school, if you had grandkids in high school, early adults, in any profession, they're all freaked out about AI stealing their jobs, it's a huge issue.

Ferenchik: Right, it's representative of fears. There certainly are a lot of, you know, people talking about the plus sides of this, including jobs here in Ohio. But it does represent physically, again, what the fears are here when it comes to electric rates, whether it comes jobs in the future. If you've been a long-time employee of a company, you're wondering how you're gonna get through the next 10 or 20 years, if AI's gonna take away your job. And this is gonna be a key point in this campaign, I think, because it's such a, especially in Ohio, especially in central Ohio. It's such a visual element here.

Juravich: I feel like this has been such a quick swing too, because I thought we were afraid of immigrants taking our jobs, but now we're afraid of AI taking our job, and it seemed to happen so suddenly.

Donaldson: Well, and it's one, I as a reporter am afraid of AI taking my job. So I'll just throw that out there, terrifies me. But I absolutely do feel like these data centers have been here for a while now. And it's not the type of data centers that are being built. But I mean, obviously Ohio has been giving tax breaks to data centers for some time. I've been covering data center developments for several years since I graduated college. But in the last year, the public opinion has just shifted on it. I mean, there is a lot of fear among a lot of people about a lot of different things. Maybe it is the rapidly developing AI because these new data centers that are being built, a lot of them are AI data centers.

Ferenchik: And again, because they're so big, again, Renee Fox did a story last year about a small data center in downtown Columbus. You would never know it's there, but being one built in Hilliard, one down on Route 23, obviously the Google Center that you can see near Scioto Downs, they're just simply in your face anymore. And that's why it's bringing it to this level, not the least of which also is the tax situation.

Thompson: You know, we can't watch "Ted Lasso" without data centers. I'm just saying, you know, data centers are, I mean, we all complain about, well, some complain about data centers, but yeah, they fuel AI and they, but we're all on our phones, everything's wireless. More and more as we're watching World Cup games, over streaming, these data centers that's what they're doing.

Donaldson: I think that's the disconnect too, right? Because we do to a point need data centers if we wanna continue with the technology that we have. And I think the funniest thing that I've seen on social media recently, I'm sure everyone else has seen it, is this AI generated image of a farm field that says this farmer carved, like we need more human work, not AI, but it's literally AI generated. So it's just, I mean. You know i think people have to have i personally don't use a lot of ai i try to avoid it but i can't always avoid it when i google something google now recommends it's ai

Thompson: Believe me, it's we in the media are very worried about AI Scraping all of our content and just putting it in a summary on Google or some other search engine with no accreditation and We've got to figure that out. The music industry figured it out. It took them a while They were getting their stuff stolen left and right, but they figured it out I think news organizations have got to step up and file lawsuits and get together and fight the AI scheming of our information because otherwise we'll be doomed. Okay doomed might be a bit strong but we in the establishment media need to be more aggressive than we were when we gave all our stuff away to Facebook. Thanks to our politics and a pint panel Ohio Public Radio's Sarah Donaldson, WOSU News Director Mark Ferenchik and WOSU All Sides host Amy Juravich. We'll be right back.

Speaker 6: Each story you hear on "Planet Money" starts with a question. What happens if we refund tariffs? Why are groceries so expensive? At NPR, we stand for your right to be curious because the forces shaping our world can be hard to see. Follow NPR's "Planet Money" wherever you get your podcasts and start seeing how the economy really works.

Thompson: You know, we'll have another Politics in a Pint event coming up likely in the fall. We'll let you know when it's going to be. And I hope you can join us. Please do. Time now for our snollygoster of the week segment, where we look at the shrewdest politician or political move of the past week. This move is not shrewd. It's not selfish. In fact, it's kind of nice. Congressman Jim Jordan serves as the chair of the House Judiciary Committee. And apparently chairs get to have their portraits in the hearing room or elsewhere on Capitol Hill. So, Jim Jordan is due a portrait.

And instead of having to raise up to $80,000 to hire an artist to paint it, his wife, Polly, will paint it for free. This was a story that first reported by OpenSecrets. Polly Jordan is an artist, a professional artist of sorts. Disclosure forms indicate she's earned a little money selling her art. It's believed this is the first time a spouse has painted a congressional portrait. Now, this won't save taxpayer dollars since a recent law mandated private funding for these portraits. But for keeping art in the family, Congressman Jim Jordan and his artist wife, Polly, get our Snollygoster of the Week Award. We can't wait to see it.

That will do it for this week's edition of Snollygoster, which is part of the NPR network. We'll take next week off, celebrate the two and a half centennial of our country and we'll return on or about July 16th. For our digital producer, Michael DeBonus, our audio engineer, Dalton Jones, I'm Mike Thompson for Snollygoster from WOSU Public Media.